Fed Suns Hate

[ntw]

Yep, I get where you're (most of you) coming from.

Normally I dislike the overexposed, goody-goody team/character/faction and prefer the underdog (must be a British thing ). But for whatever reason I just "like" Davion & Fed Suns, I probably couldn't put together a decent explanation of why.

 

[Spartakus]

There's a certain disconnect between how the Federated Suns and there major charachters are painted ant what they objectively are and as much as I love reading Stackpoles novels, it's the place where it is most blatant.
Hanse Davion and his son are the designated good guys of the universe and their opponents are unquestionable evil or madman. Nothing wrong with that, a lot of relatable charachters in fiction are, but evereyone who dares questioning them is painted as completely unreasonable. And yet what those charchters do is often questionable at best and criminal at worst.
The same is true for the faction itself, it's a dictatorship that prides itself the cradle of democracy. Contrast this with the Combine: It's a feudal dictatorship too, but everyone there is refreshingly honest about it.

 

[MeiSooHaityu]

Yep, I get where you're (most of you) coming from.

Normally I dislike the overexposed, goody-goody team/character/faction and prefer the underdog (must be a British thing ). But for whatever reason I just "like" Davion & Fed Suns, I probably couldn't put together a decent explanation of why.

I think that is how a lot of us pick our affiliations in BattleTech. We find something that looks cool and that becomes our affiliation.

I like the Davions too, but since I was more exposed to BattleTech through the computer games (and cartoon), I liked them as the Federated Commonwealth. The marriage between House Steiner and House Davion to create that massive government probably caused more harm than good though ultimately. After all, the combining of the Federated Suns (Davion) and Lyran Commonwealth (Steiner) to create one massive government was the main catalyst in spurring on the Clan Invasion. The Clanners were afraid that the now massive Federated Commonwealth was going to unite the Inner Sphere under their rule due to their much greater size and influence, and hey, that's the Clanner's birthright.

Then there was the ugly breakup (civil war) in 3062 to 3067, and we were back to where we were lol.

Still, despite all that, I still have a bit of affection for the Federated Commonwealth (as short lived and half baked as they were).

 

[TripleStrengthMisnomer]

This, I don't actually hate the Davions, I am fed up with the oversaturation as Juodas said.
But when you have your faction that you invest time and money constructing an army for, then you occasionally like to get into the correct mindset for a bit of friendly rivalry, and ribbing, online.

Now, begone you imperialistic Davion swine, you won't be invading the Concordat today

I ate all of the published books, regurgitated them and wolfed them down again.
Yes, the points about oversaturation or demonizing certain factions while championing House Davion are valid. I disagree with VSD being portrayed as a do no wrong superhero. Without spamming a large list of examples, he had dirt kicked in his face many times and hid in his desk drawer rather than bury the OPFOR in an unmarked grave like his father the "Fox" would have done. There are other examples of hero characters like Kai where in an effort to make them more "human" or add some vulnerability, I instead ended up gritting my teeth while flipping pages thinking..."oh for the love of...man up already and get back in your mech...you are terribly wimpy outside of it ..."

We did have counter efforts with some entire series that were counter to this argument and one off books that focused entirely elsewhere.

I did have some issues with where canon literature went before the IP went on a hiatus...There is good mutterings from CGL about renewed fiction and hopefully we see some focus and consistency with the commissioned authors.

I really want to see stories from the fringe powers and minor realms as they are largely untapped.
More stories about struggling fledgling Merc units overcoming adversity and making a difference to their balance sheets...

 

[ntw]

I know next to nothing about Kai Allard-Liao, but there seems to be a "second coming of the messiah" air about him which instantly causes me to dislike him...

As for :

<snip>...
More stories about struggling fledgling Merc units overcoming adversity and making a difference to their balance sheets...

well - we'll all be writing our own stories on that theme soon enough, although I suspect a few will end in poverty and defeat

 

[Stuckenschmidt]

More stories about struggling fledgling Merc units overcoming adversity and making a difference to their balance sheets...

Don`t worry, as of late April we will see some stories written about how refreshing Mercenary Capitalism saves the day.

EDIT:

ntw`d

 

[TripleStrengthMisnomer]

I know next to nothing about Kai Allard-Liao, but there seems to be a "second coming of the messiah" air about him which instantly causes me to dislike him...

As for :


well - we'll all be writing our own stories on that theme soon enough, although I suspect a few will end in poverty and defeat

Poverty and defeat? I'll take it...just so long as I'm playing........nothing else matters....soon...very soon...

 

[Jadedfalcon]

Guess I saw it the other way. In MechCommander 2 House Davion was my favorite employer (but maybe that was just due to clan tech access). Now that I think about it, the Davions were also my favorite opponent too due to clan tech salvage. But anyway, they were also the protagonist in MechWarrior 4: Vengeance. I enjoyed House Davion contracts more in MechWarrior 4: Mercenaries. With the exception of a trial of position at the very end of the Steiner missions the Davion missions seemed more interesting to me). Several books portrayed them as Protagonists and even the name New Avalon brings to mind chivalric nobility of purpose.

 

[Exemplar Voss]

We'll, their sudden magic access to a lot of lostech didn't help either. Between that and the 'brave heroes vs the evil Japanese and Chinese stereotypes,' there was a lot of poor writing. And frankly the Lyrans as sycophants (or traitors) didn't help either.

Even their flaws (exile of Justin in a seeming fit of bureaucracy) turned out to just be cunning ploys.



Though my headcanon is the tech advantage actual comes from sneaking students into Taurian universities, since it's about the only corner of the universe with a real educational system.

 

[TaurianMerc]

Normally I dislike the overexposed, goody-goody team/character/faction and prefer the underdog (must be a British thing ).

Go Taurian, their government will be very familiar to you, their military uniform is a scarlet jacket and their ranks are very Napoleonic.

 

[Blastoid]

Back when I was into Battletech as a teen in the late 80's it felt like Davion were portrayed in the literature as the "good guys", and they were white European/American. That the "bad guys" (Kurita, Laio) were portrayed as having Asian background was disturbing to me, particularly because my brother is Korean. This led me to lean towards the purple as felt to me the least typecast of the major houses. I also enjoyed the large amount incompetence and infighting that is rife in the Marik House.

 

[Ozymandious]

The universal contempt of personal freedom in the great houses is one of the factors that led me to support the MoC. The periphery appears to be the last refuge of people seeking freedom from oppression. As much lip service as all the houses pay to freedom and the happiness of their people none of the great houses would scruple to do whatever theybfelt was in their interest and then spin it as freedom. The taurians and MoC appear to put a much higher value on personal freedom of their people with strong political institutions and good courts.

 

[Kidzin]

I would compare it to the hate on Space Marines from 40k It's not the same scale obviously but since they are face of the game, have most books, games etc. people get upset over it in similar manner.

Plus ofc they are jealous of superior mechs, better pilots and all the goodies FS has

 

[Ozymandious]

Fs has a good PR department other than that, they are just as determined to have their way as the others

 

[DeadDuck1015]

I would compare it to the hate on Space Marines from 40k It's not the same scale obviously but since they are face of the game, have most books, games etc. people get upset over it in similar manner.

Plus ofc they are jealous of superior mechs, better pilots and all the goodies FS has

More specifically, I think it's similar to how people view the Ultramarines. They're the poster boys, so they get all the attention, and it gets on people's nerves. Personally, I have no real hate for the FedSuns in particular, but wheres the fun in having a favorite faction if you can't trash talk the other factions?

 

[Stefan Amaris Jr]

I blame "The Sword and the Dagger"

 

[Skoll-]

The Davions / Fed Suns are boring and have the most plot armor. When you read the books it feels like every other house only exists for the Federats to demonstrate how superior they are in all ways and it makes for extremely dull reading. Yeah, as a kid I didn't mean because giant robots but I've recently revisited the novels as an adult and it's just so.. boring. I want to see other stuff besides "The Capellans are bad because reasons", "The Draconis Combine is bad because reasons", "The Lyrans are pussies because reasons", "What's the Free Worlds League again?", etc.

Then when it gets to the Clan garbage it doesn't get any better because all the Davion self righteousness is crammed down your throat with VSD and KAL. It's just not very interesting or exciting to read about.

 

[Horseman]

So, if a house was just a sneaky and dirty as the others, but was elevated as having some sort of superior morale compass for the IS, sure it will irk some fans..

Some wars are waged in public opinion. You could argue Davion just has a good propaganda team.

 

[Kereminde]

There's a certain disconnect between how the Federated Suns and there major charachters are painted ant what they objectively are and as much as I love reading Stackpoles novels, it's the place where it is most blatant.
Hanse Davion and his son are the designated good guys of the universe and their opponents are unquestionable evil or madman. Nothing wrong with that, a lot of relatable charachters in fiction are, but evereyone who dares questioning them is painted as completely unreasonable. And yet what those charchters do is often questionable at best and criminal at worst.
The same is true for the faction itself, it's a dictatorship that prides itself the cradle of democracy. Contrast this with the Combine: It's a feudal dictatorship too, but everyone there is refreshingly honest about it.

Bearing in mind we're seeing it from their perspective and it could be said we're not getting an entirely unbiased view of it. It's like Star Wars fiction, where the Empire is rarely given credit for anything other than the Death Star - even though that's more Tarkin than the Empire. You'd think there'd be stories which would stop it being black and white but at the end of the day it's not how Star Wars likes doing it. If you have good people in the Imperial Service, they have to eventually switch sides - save exactly one author who had decent people hanging around - because that's how it is.

I'd be less annoyed if it was like the lore work didn't forget there's other potential out there than Steiner/Kurita/Davion shenanigans. Or picking on Liao - again.

 

[wwiiogre]

House Davion, for no better words is like the USA of today. Everybody in the world wants to live in the land of freedom, where anyone can become great, rich, etc. Everybody hates them because they all think their country is the best and dismiss other types of countries and governments as inferior. The Davions are Militarily superior, Technologically superior and Tactically and Strategically superior. And yes they got more love in the fiction/lore for this timeline between 3025 and 3050. Because of all these things, people want to be like them, but hate them for it at the same time.

After clan invasion I actually dislike them. I do however love the Regimental Combat Teams and I have used that concept for my tabletop merc units. Full battalion of mechs, vehicles, infantry, arty, aero, engineers. Combined arms, the only way to go, when you can. Nothing beats overwhelming firepower, combined with maneuver plus the ability to control the air and if needed dig in and hold what you took.

I have seen amazing mech commanders even the clan, just flounder when facing dug in infantry defending behind minefields and command detonated mines and bridges. Supported by Arty and aero its a hard nail to hammer when you lose precious mechs or elementals for every hex you move forward. Combined with hidden units (dug in infantry are basically invisible until they fire unless using large anti mech weapons).

You hit a player enough times from ambush they get gun shy, you let the scout mech thru the command detonated mine field and wait for the mediums, heavies and assaults to get in the middle then you start hammering the legs, while dropping arty on the slow mechs. Then repeatedly strafe them from the back with aero and its quick work finishing off what is left with literally half or less the mech tonnage you were facing.

This kind of stuff is why alot of players hate Davion. Plus after 3050 they could lay minefields with LRM's. Talk about nasty.

Chris