FEEDBACK: Siege stolen by vassal when liege is present

[TheArchMede]

It shouldn't happen to an Emperor

Byzantium 1337. Anyone who wants to know what it feels like to be an Iberian muslim in 1066 should play this.

Loaded it up and looked around. Desmense size can take another 30 provinces at 100%. There are Ottomans just across the Bosphorus. They have only got 10,000 to my 20,000 troops. Check the tech levels. Orthodox higher in most and equal in rest. Desmense replenishment indicated. Declare war and call up vassals. 2-pronged invasion, by sea from Greece and the demense troops from Constantinople. One vassal joins in on his own account before handing over his troops. Ottoman troops die or run, eventually the remnants start besieging my large fortress in Constantnople, while I overrun their small castles. And then ...

my vassal stole my siege

There I was. Emperor of the the whole world, at least the only bit that it is worth being Emperor of, which can be determined by checking which bits of the map are green . When up marches this Prince of "somewhere not quite worth revoking" with a tiddly little bodyguard of a regiment. And he steals my siege . Siege stealing is what Emperors with tiddly bodyguard regiments do to Dukes with a barely scratched regiments from 60 gold per month provinces, not vice versa.

It shouldn't happen to an Emperor. :wacko:

 

[unmerged(25476)]

yea I've noticed the little... who gets credit to the title after a siege is a little unpredictable isn't it...

 

[Dunlaing]

I never noticed this sort of thing happen in 1.03, but I've seen it in 1.04 a few times.

 

[lenny]

If the Emperor is personally present at the siege it should be impossible for a Duke to take over. When the imperial Army is led by some courtier the Prince will outrank him.

 

[Cagliostro]

If your monarch is of age, the army from your capital will be led by him. Raise troops at your capital and send them to your siege; nobody else will take it from you, unless there's a same-rank monarch already there.

 

[TheArchMede]

If your monarch is of age, the army from your capital will be led by him. Raise troops at your capital and send them to your siege; nobody else will take it from you, unless there's a same-rank monarch already there.

It happened exactly as stated. The Emperor, in person, leading the biggest regiment in the siege (and 60 gold per month provinces give big regiments) had the siege stolen by his vassal prince. It shouldn't happen, but it did.



I have also seen this happen with lesser ranked infidel allies. e.g. Iberian King having siege stolen by Muslim emir. I don't remember seeing this before 1.04 but I am not sure that there were many chances for it to happen.

Of course, since the siege thief is my vassal, there are ways of dealing with this. Attempts to revoke title, fails, and waits for Black Death to dissipate before taking military action.

 

[Cat Lord]

It happened exactly as stated. The Emperor, in person, leading the biggest regiment in the siege (and 60 gold per month provinces give big regiments) had the siege stolen by his vassal prince. It shouldn't happen, but it did.

If that's the case, that's a bug.

What need to be sure is that your Prince is actually a Prince and not some sort of King. Also, nothing happen during the siege ? Like you didn't re-load or something.

The only other thing I can think of is that they are events to steal a siege, which can happen to your vassal (and not you), but you would not been warned.

In this case, the siege would not have gone regularly (i.e. the progress bar would not have gone completely to the left, but the siege would have been won in the middle of it).

That's the only non-bug explanation I can think of, and it would not be reproducible.

Can you give me more feedback please ?
If you have a save with this siege-winning situation being repeatable, I'd like to have it. Because if it's the event, there is very few chance that on reload it will happen again.

Cat

 

[TheArchMede]

If that's the case, that's a bug.

What need to be sure is that your Prince is actually a Prince and not some sort of King. Also, nothing happen during the siege ? Like you didn't re-load or something.

The only other thing I can think of is that they are events to steal a siege, which can happen to your vassal (and not you), but you would not been warned.

In this case, the siege would not have gone regularly (i.e. the progress bar would not have gone completely to the left, but the siege would have been won in the middle of it).

That's the only non-bug explanation I can think of, and it would not be reproducible.

Can you give me more feedback please ?
If you have a save with this siege-winning situation being repeatable, I'd like to have it. Because if it's the event, there is very few chance that on reload it will happen again.

Cat

The prince was Hellas or Thessalonika or something. The first one to the West of Constantinople. I saw nothing like Pisa (which sometimes acts like a Duke and sometimes like a King) in regard to that Prince.

It happened about a year into the 100 years war scenario. I don't have any save that is closer than that.

The siege terminated normally according to the progress of the siege bar. The Prince was shown as being in charge as soon as he turned up and I experimented with giving the Emperor's regiment orders to march away and then cancelling them to see if that would put him back in charge.

The Prince was there under his own steam, having been declared on by the Ottomans before he got round to accepting my summons.

I haven't tried to reproduce it but it should be easy enough to provoke a similar situation. Having seen it happen once, I had been trying to avoid similar situations.

I will have a go and post again.

 

[TheArchMede]

This is dead easy to reproduce.

Not only does the Emperor of Byzantium get his sieges stolen by the Prince of Thessalonika, but I started the 1337 scenario as the Prince of Thessalonika, and was able to steal sieges from my liege the Emperor.

Saving in the middle of the siege and reloading, puts the Emperor in charge of the siege at the moment of reload, but as soon as the game starts to run, the Prince steals the siege.

This only happens when the two are in separate wars, and I don't know how frequently, because I usually avoid situations where it might happen.

I have tested every way I could think of that and the Prince of Thessalonika behaves like a Prince in every other way (demense size, can only vassal counts)

 

[TheArchMede]

Further testing shows this to occur with counts stealing Princes even when their army was called up by the Prince, but not when the regiments are merged into one army.

Also, it appears to be peculiar to orthodoxy or perhaps islam or perhaps the byzantine empire. I have found it in both 1066 and 1337 and several different vassal liege combinations when attacking muslims. However I have not been able to get it to occur with christians attacking pagans.