Female Succession in Africa Makes Zero Sense and Needs to be Removed from the Game

[Darsara]

During the first shogunate, the Kamakura shogunate, the shoguns were the regents for the emperor. Yet they were in turn puppets for a regency. The Hojo clan had established a monopoly on the regency. The Ashikaga shogunate that ended up following the Kamakura shogunate tended to be a lot like feudal Europe. The regency was in the hands of men, not women.

One thing to note: these 'regencies' weren't regencies as defined elsewhere, they were pretend names for hereditary/family-appointed rulership playing games of pretend with power & titles, so comparing them to regencies as they appear in the game & more typically elsewhere (as usually actually temporary rule) doesn't really work. It would be like basing an implementation of the the presidential system of France off of how the Assad family presidents ruled Syria because they both called themselves presidents.

edit: @Andrzej2 you feel the Japanese 'regencies' were the same?

 

[DiabloDeVille]

I think that maybe it could potentially create a pseudo primogeniture super early, though now non tribal and feudal governments have the ability to bypass partition. Is his land split between the sons of all of his sisters, or just his eldest? I believe currently in game for male preference, if a ruler dies without legitimate kids, all of his brother (if any any) are dead and don’t have legitimate offspring, and his eldest sister is dead, than all of his titles pass to his eldest sister’s eldest legitimate son.

Now that adventurers are in, and gain a rose a host to depose you, if they get no land, paradox could just admit that primogeniture existed in 1066, and move its unlock earlier

 

[apollo1989vieten]

One thing to note: these 'regencies' weren't regencies as defined elsewhere, they were pretend names for hereditary/family-appointed rulership playing games of pretend with power & titles, so comparing them to regencies as they appear in the game & more typically elsewhere (as usually actually temporary rule) doesn't really work. It would be like basing an implementation of the the presidential system of France off of how the Assad family presidents ruled Syria because they both called themselves presidents.

That is true. The regency for the shogun, who was supposed to be a regent for the emperor, was a legal fiction to try to pretend that those other offices had actually power. But in any case, the regent in East Asia wasn’t necessarily a woman. Oversimplified’s video on the three kingdoms period says that maternal uncles vied for power during the regency of underage emperors against the eunuchs. It led to the eventual end of the Han. And during the three kingdoms period, the eventual first Jin Dynasty established a hereditary regency over Wei before they decided to ditch the fiction and become the new imperial dynasty.

 

[elvain]

Hmm, what are the gameplay obstacles? I'd think it wouldn't be very tough to design a succession system where nephews of the ruler interit

If I recall correctly (it was in the early phase of CK3, so few years ago), the main concern would be that this succession might be very hard to manage, both for players, and especially for the AI. Hence...
this could cause very easy game over, which - furthemore - can be very hard to prevent. In the first phase this could be relatively easy - you know who are your sisters, so you chose matrilinear marriages for them. but even for the player it gets more complicated then. Your heir is your matrilieal nephew, so to protect your dynasty inheritance, you need to make sure that his sisters are married martilineally... and so on. And now imagine that you have a long-living ruler, who can outlive many his younger relatives and you might need to take care of several generations of these successions, otherwise you can easily get a game over.

An easy and practical solution could be to set AI marriages of all female members of dynasty to matri-marriages. But that could make it lot harder to make any marriages, and from historical standpoint it would actually be ahistorical. It was this exact succession type, what enabled the Arabs to first take over the Beja people at the eastern outskirts of Egypt and Nubia, and then to seriously weaken Nubia itself.

So the only historically accurate way would be to require both the player and the AI to keep track of this complex line of succession. And I can understand that people may consider this to be too much micronamagement and too unfun.
I think we need to emphasize that this argumentation happened years ago, when the game was quite different from now... and it might be possible that now with adventurers etc. this might not stand as valid as it used to years ago...

I myself think it would still be worth trying and would be better than the actual setup, but I sort of understand why they don't have it as priority.

tl;dr - I don't think it's to hard to create this sort of succession type, but much more complex to make the AI to use it propperly and at the same time make it fun for players. And as much as I myself would love if CK3 would primarily be a historically-accurate history-simulator, let's not forget that for the developers this is primarily a game, which is meant to be fun and that for them fun aspect is more important than accuracy.

 

[apollo1989vieten]

Here is an article that goes through the history of medieval Nubia.

Christian Nubia, Muslim Egypt and the Crusaders: a complex mosaic of Diplomacy and Warfare.

The kingdom of Makuria, a medieval African power.

www.africanhistoryextra.com

It doesn’t seem like the inheritance system caused trouble for the 800 so years between first contact from Muslim armies and its eventual conquest during a succession crisis.