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delbert57

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Nov 5, 2023
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Hello ,on my first try with Rome on normal invaded Carthaginian Sicily after fifty years and the only opposition was a 7500 army and no navy which was disappointing. Will start a new campaign should I increase the difficulty level or try the increased difficulty level mod or try a different country like Macedon or Thrace to get a harder but not overwhelming challenge? By the way I think this is a great game with a lot of depth ,very enjoyable,
 
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Congrats. Apparently Rome is not a difficult start so it may explain. I'm still in my first campaign (since forever), following a guide Knossos -> Crete. It was a little complicated at the beginning; now (90 years before the end) I blobbed to #6 in POP in the world
I heard that with Invictus mod, there are a lot of countries to explore
 
It sounds like you have done much better.I was just disappointed with the battle for Sicily expected a real fight Have started again as Macedon I suspect Rome on normal is too easy. I wonder if you have any experience of the increased difficulty mod?
 
I cannot help you there as I wanted to start the game in pure vanilla.
Now that beta patch authorises achievements in modded ironman, I'm considering other options (and Invictus seems the easy choice for mod)
 
Rome is easy, has a soft Republic and a lot of POPs nearby.

Normally, in SP Rome is the final boss you face at the end of your play. I suggest you start with another nation in Europe to experiment the angst of the Roman coming to you.

For increased difficulty, start with a very small nation. Ultimate challange, one territory nation of the different culture and religion of the region, like Massilia or Emporion.
 
I shall make my perennial recommendation: Pandya. Good starting provinces, lots of neighbors to cut your teeth on but no direct advantages like Rome has, and while Maurya's debuffs will pretty much stall them out they're still a very nasty Big Bad for the mid-game.
 
delbert57 said:
It sounds like you have done much better.I was just disappointed with the battle for Sicily expected a real fight Have started again as Macedon I suspect Rome on normal is too easy. I wonder if you have any experience of the increased difficulty mod?
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Unfortunately, what you are describing is a big part of why the game failed to become a success in my opinion. There are simply too many tags where the AI does not present something resembling a challenge. Tags like Carthage just didn't do anything at all in the hands of the AI, even if you conquered pretty much all of the Iberian peninsula starting as a small Iberian tag.
 
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delbert57 said:
That sounds like a real shame . Wondering if the Diadochi are more likely to show aggression towards each other?
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Diadochi get a scripted set of wars that trigger near game start, so you're pretty much guaranteed to be fighting at least the Antigonids. If you're successful, however, you also find yourself in one of the strongest positions in the game, so it's mostly an initial challenge.
 
Brynjar said:
Unfortunately, what you are describing is a big part of why the game failed to become a success in my opinion. There are simply too many tags where the AI does not present something resembling a challenge. Tags like Carthage just didn't do anything at all in the hands of the AI, even if you conquered pretty much all of the Iberian peninsula starting as a small Iberian tag.
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The problem with Carthage is that it just has too many downsides compared to Rome for it to be able to compete with and counter Rome. It's military traditions for land units are terrible compared to Rome's. Not only that but Rome has the best military traditions in the game that buffs the best unit type as well.

Another issue is that the one place where Carthage outshines Rome is naval warfare but naval warfare is barely a thing in the game. Ships are just transports for your armies and nothing else.

Then you have things like heritages where Rome gets a buff to it's levy size multipler while Carthage gets a debuff to it's levy size multipler.

Not only that but Rome can easily and quickly assimilate huge amounts of Italian pops in Italy because they all share the same culture and/or religion while Carthage is surrounded by pops that are of different cultures and religions which only exacerbates the levy size differences over time.

You can integrate cultures as Carthage to somewhat compensate for that but then you run into the issue of North Africa and Iberia being underdeveloped land that you need to develop and full of tribal pops that would reduce your research efficiency while Italy is full of wealthy cities with loads of nobles and citizens that counter the research efficiency of assimilating huge amount of pops.

I think that the issue comes down to balance. Rome is overpowered compared to everone else while Carthage is underpowered for it to be able to properly compete with and counter Rome.
 
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Synen said:
The problem with Carthage is that it just has too many downsides compared to Rome for it to be able to compete with and counter Rome. It's military traditions for land units are terrible compared to Rome's. Not only that but Rome has the best military traditions in the game that buffs the best unit type as well.

Another issue is that the one place where Carthage outshines Rome is naval warfare but naval warfare is barely a thing in the game. Ships are just transports for your armies and nothing else.

Then you have things like heritages where Rome gets a buff to it's levy size multipler while Carthage gets a debuff to it's levy size multipler.

Not only that but Rome can easily and quickly assimilate huge amounts of Italian pops in Italy because they all share the same culture and/or religion while Carthage is surrounded by pops that are of different cultures and religions which only exacerbates the levy size differences over time.

You can integrate cultures as Carthage to somewhat compensate for that but then you run into the issue of North Africa and Iberia being underdeveloped land that you need to develop and full of tribal pops that would reduce your research efficiency while Italy is full of wealthy cities with loads of nobles and citizens that counter the research efficiency of assimilating huge amount of pops.

I think that the issue comes down to balance. Rome is overpowered compared to everone else while Carthage is underpowered for it to be able to properly compete with and counter Rome.
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Carthage should have no problems eating up its African and Iberian neighbours, regardless of Rome being handheld into becoming a superpower. The problem is that it doesn't even try. It is also not a unique problem to Carthage. Any tag not specifically scripted into certain wars are very clearly suffering from the issue.
 
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Brynjar said:
Carthage should have no problems eating up its African and Iberian neighbours, regardless of Rome being handheld into becoming a superpower. The problem is that it doesn't even try. It is also not a unique problem to Carthage. Any tag not specifically scripted into certain wars are very clearly suffering from the issue.
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The AI seems quite good at acting on its claims... less so at generating them. Rome's free claims gives it a lot of steam.
 
Strange. I could swear I was always facing stronger opposition, including at minimum two stacks of mercenaries (I also play at normal difficulty). Even when I ally with Massaesylia early on and prevent Carthage from conquering them (thus weakening Carthage).
 
Aquila SPQR said:
Strange. I could swear I was always facing stronger opposition, including at minimum two stacks of mercenaries (I also play at normal difficulty). Even when I ally with Massaesylia early on and prevent Carthage from conquering them (thus weakening Carthage).
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It depends a lot on when you square off with Carthage, and how. It's quite doable to use the fact that Carthage has to cross the Mediterranean to swing an early minor victory by holding Sardinia and Sicily, though you'll be lucky to actually take all 4 provinces in that war.

Carthage's main issue is that they can't really leverage being left alone to keep pace or become an even worse threat. Rome gets to eat same-culture-group Italy and same-faith Greece, all of which is fairly urbanized and developed, to say nothing of Rome's free claims. Carthage tends to spin its wheels with a few low-value tribes that take a long time to convert/assimilate. If you push Carthage out of Sicily/Corsica/Sardinia, they can be left alone to attack when you feel confident.
 
DukeLeto42 said:
It depends a lot on when you square off with Carthage, and how. It's quite doable to use the fact that Carthage has to cross the Mediterranean to swing an early minor victory by holding Sardinia and Sicily, though you'll be lucky to actually take all 4 provinces in that war.

Carthage's main issue is that they can't really leverage being left alone to keep pace or become an even worse threat. Rome gets to eat same-culture-group Italy and same-faith Greece, all of which is fairly urbanized and developed, to say nothing of Rome's free claims. Carthage tends to spin its wheels with a few low-value tribes that take a long time to convert/assimilate. If you push Carthage out of Sicily/Corsica/Sardinia, they can be left alone to attack when you feel confident.
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True, I usually attack them later on, when I unite entire Italy and even go slightly beyond it. I don't really like wars with someone with tens of clients, I prefer to face larger stack at once than 5 tiny annoying ones roaming through the entire map, so I give them time to annex them.
 
Aquila SPQR said:
True, I usually attack them later on, when I unite entire Italy and even go slightly beyond it. I don't really like wars with someone with tens of clients, I prefer to face larger stack at once than 5 tiny annoying ones roaming through the entire map, so I give them time to annex them.
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Yeah especially on the mission tree that leads to you and Carthage in a Total War, those little 2k stacks showing up on random coasts are a real nuisance.
 
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