Fixed Teutonic Order TXT file, and a few ideas

[panther-anthro]

It wasn't readable in it's current state, so I thought I'd fix it, and make it readable. Didn't take me very long, but I knew how to fix it. It works fine, and looks like all the others now.

Here is a Link to the fixed txt file for Teutonic Order, with spelling/grammar fixes: For MattyG TEO TXT FILE


Note: I think there's kind of a lack of Teutonic Order events to be honest Matty! XD


Note 2: Why do they form Kurland instead of Prussia? Prussia was a kingdom title, Kurland wasn't.

Note 3: I'm curious as to why the TO, doesn't have more cores in actual German territory? Let alone accepts German Culture, historically they should accept German Culture, just pointing this out.

Note 4: Shouldn't there be more events in regards to the Conquest of Finland, by the Teutonic Order, or for that matter, the conquest of Russia?

 

[MattyG]

It wasn't readable in it's current state, so I thought I'd fix it, and make it readable. Didn't take me very long, but I knew how to fix it. It works fine, and looks like all the others now.

Here is a Link to the fixed txt file for Teutonic Order, with spelling/grammar fixes: For MattyG TEO TXT FILE

Thanks, I'll look over this tonight, if I get the chance.

Note: I think there's kind of a lack of Teutonic Order events to be honest Matty! XD

Fair enough, but there are more TO events than Chernigov events. Everything could be improved on.

Note 2: Why do they form Kurland instead of Prussia? Prussia was a kingdom title, Kurland wasn't.

You'd need to contact Incompetent about this.

Note 3: I'm curious as to why the TO, doesn't have more cores in actual German territory? Let alone accepts German Culture, historically they should accept German Culture, just pointing this out.

Gut reaction is that is is partly game balance (imagine how many cores they'd have!) and partly that the TO has a Papal mandate which does not include them invading germany. They have no 'historical' reason to be there, although you could craft events related to crusades against protestant nations, I suppose.

Note 4: Shouldn't there be more events in regards to the Conquest of Finland, by the Teutonic Order, or for that matter, the conquest of Russia?

Look in the Epochal_Russia file for these.

 

[LordInsane]

You'd need to contact Incompetent about this.

Prussia was a ducal title, not a royal title, so that could be part of the reason.
That, and having Prussia do well could be seen as straying a little too close to OTL's winners .

 

[MattyG]

Prussia was a ducal title, not a royal title, so that could be part of the reason.
That, and having Prussia do well could be seen as straying a little too close to OTL's winners .

Thanks for this.

Prussia, unlike France or England, couldn't be said to be an 'inevitable state', in that it had a long history prior to 1419 and that controlling a certain amount of its traditional territory could give you good reason to be able to claim the title. Whereas, for China, France, England, Hungary and to some extent Germany, there is a popular consciousness within the people of those regions that the kingdom has a right to exist. I realise I am not capturing this very well in words, but I think you know where I am heading.

Prussia, like the Kingdom of Asturias, Occitania or Kingdom of Northern Italy has a less firm status and ought to exists ocassionally by the ai and by the player through intent and hard work.

 

[panther-anthro]

I agree with Matty here. Also, Prussia was a kingdom, it was a pagan kingdom, before it was conquered. If you don't know this, look it up.

Kurland = nonsense, I'm sorry it just is.

Prussia also has a VERY long history, and it was turned into a papal recognized kingdom title by the Pope and Emperor if I remember right? Although, technically Prussia is really just a secularized Teutonic Order. The major difference in this timeline would be that the events that secularize it should make it Prussia. Regardless, of the fact that it did exist in the real world.

In the OTL Prussia = actually dies off. In this timeline the teutonic order formed Prussia would survive. Thus, they are different, but they have a similar title.

Although, really the surefire way for Prussia to form, would be the same way the original prussia formed in this time period. Embrace protestantism.

To Matty about cores: It should have a core in Hinterpommern, it was originally part of the Pagan Kingdom of Prussia, and Teutonic Order if I remember right had it occupied for a while it fought against the Poles.

Teutonic Order itself wanted to wipe out the poles entirely, so you have to make it reasonable that they'd also want to occupy places like Silesia/Hinterpommern/Kustrin

 

[MattyG]

I agree with Matty here. Also, Prussia was a kingdom, it was a pagan kingdom, before it was conquered. If you don't know this, look it up.

Kurland = nonsense, I'm sorry it just is.

Prussia also has a VERY long history, and it was turned into a papal recognized kingdom title by the Pope and Emperor if I remember right? Although, technically Prussia is really just a secularized Teutonic Order. The major difference in this timeline would be that the events that secularize it should make it Prussia. Regardless, of the fact that it did exist in the real world.

In the OTL Prussia = actually dies off. In this timeline the teutonic order formed Prussia would survive. Thus, they are different, but they have a similar title.

Although, really the surefire way for Prussia to form, would be the same way the original prussia formed in this time period. Embrace protestantism.

To Matty about cores: It should have a core in Hinterpommern, it was originally part of the Pagan Kingdom of Prussia, and Teutonic Order if I remember right had it occupied for a while it fought against the Poles.

Teutonic Order itself wanted to wipe out the poles entirely, so you have to make it reasonable that they'd also want to occupy places like Silesia/Hinterpommern/Kustrin

I can't speak for Incompenent, but it isn't necessary to discard Kurland so easily. This is alternate history and many things which we might think impossible could have happened, as long as you build to it properly.

As for the other things, OK, we can start the TO with additional cores, but we cannot simply have the Order with lots and lots of them unless there is a price to be paid at some point. I know they have their civil war, but ...

 

[panther-anthro]

I'm just pointing out that a victorious Teutonic Order, really should have more cores then it starts with. Not saying, it should be an automatic powerhouse, but it should be far stronger then it historically was. The only real difference between this teutonic order, and the real one. Is that it doesn't have as many negative events.

Also, I'm just writing off Kurland, because it isn't as important as Prussia in history before these events. *Two province pagan kingdom compared to 6*

 

[MattyG]

Perhaps the formation of Prussia is the 'solution' for the oversized TO.

The western provinces turn protestant and try to form themselves into Prussia and only some hurculean effort can keep the thing together ...

The way to avoid this as a player is to stay east?

Ideas after thinking about it for 3.72 seconds.

TO at start in INT2 is even bigger ...

 

[panther-anthro]

Should be huge Matty, you do know that right? According to your own alternate history, it ended up winning, and crushing Lithuania, and Poland. This means it's HUGE, which isn't a bad thing at all, but it needs to have something that holds it back from becoming the ruler of that region.

Although, I looked around in the TO event files, and there isn't an event for Teutonic Order to gain Core on Danzig, there is one for Hansa, but not TO. Even though it mentions that it 'handled it' later, but apparently it didn't.

 

[MattyG]

Should be huge Matty, you do know that right? According to your own alternate history, it ended up winning, and crushing Lithuania, and Poland. This means it's HUGE, which isn't a bad thing at all, but it needs to have something that holds it back from becoming the ruler of that region.

Well, the emperor made certain that is wouldn't get too huge, by creating Danzig and keeping Poland independent.

Remember also that it was helped in this endeavour by Halych-Volhynia, which took some of Lithuania and Poland.

But, yeah, it's big.

Although, I looked around in the TO event files, and there isn't an event for Teutonic Order to gain Core on Danzig, there is one for Hansa, but not TO. Even though it mentions that it 'handled it' later, but apparently it didn't.

The best of intentions.

Another event for you to write.

 

[panther-anthro]

Needs to change culture, or to have Teutonic Order with a claim to German culture, somehow. Maybe, if they take Pommeralia, and Hinterpommern?

event = {
id = 500016
trigger = {
event = 500011
owned = { province = 301 data = -1 }
atwar = no
stability = 1
}
random = no
country = LAT
name = ""
desc = "Over time, the initially restless Danzigers came to accept Teutonic rule."

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1510 }
offset = 500
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1819 }

action_a = {
name = "Good"
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 301 value = -5

This event, should add the Core, but it doesn't, may I edit it to this?

event = {
id = 500016
trigger = {
event = 500011
owned = { province = 301 data = -1 }
atwar = no
stability = 1
}
random = no
country = LAT
name = ""
desc = "Over time, the initially restless Danzigers came to accept Teutonic rule."

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1510 }
offset = 500
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1819 }

action_a = {
name = "Good"
command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 301 value = -5 }
command = { type = addcore which = 301 }

 

[panther-anthro]

Bumping, this thread because I want to see what Matty thinks of this.

 

[LordInsane]

I agree with Matty here. Also, Prussia was a kingdom, it was a pagan kingdom, before it was conquered. If you don't know this, look it up.

Prussia also has a VERY long history, and it was turned into a papal recognized kingdom title by the Pope and Emperor if I remember right?

Pagan Kingdom titles weren't-obviously- recognised by the Christians, so that wouldn't affect it, really.

It was turned into a Kingdom, yes, in the 18th century, and even then it had a special provision: King in Prussia instead of King of Prussia.

I admit that Prussia did die off in OTL, but before that it unified Germany again, and Germany still survives.

 

[MattyG]

Bumping, this thread because I want to see what Matty thinks of this.

No need to bump. I read every posting.

I added that command to the event. Thanks.

 

[panther-anthro]

No problem Matty

 

[unmerged(90762)]

Two quick points:

1) Hinterpommern 'belongs' to Danzig. Danzig has the stronger claim, having come out of the Kingdom of Pommerelia. TO gets no freebies, and more to the point, if the TO has to march through Danzig in order to get to its cores, Danzig is destroyed every game.

2) It should not be easy to gain cores on Danzig after conquering it, due to the method of its creation. It exists as an insulated buffer state. Ergo, any conquest of it will be resented heavily by everyone around the state (Poland, Brandenburg, etc.), and by the people within (Free city used to being bullied by the larger states, there will be massive resistance due to a sort of institutionalised nationalism. Small angry states were always harder to destroy. Look at Prussia.)

Yes, mostly I'm just pimping Danzig. More to the point, your event could happen the day you conquer Danzig. No dice.

 

[panther-anthro]

We mentioned the hinterpommern to danzig, already by myself. But, there's already this ridiculously huge succession war. But yea, I agree with most of that. Cept in the case of Silesia, which exists for some odd reason, that no one can explain... -Not even archduke-

 

[MattyG]

We mentioned the hinterpommern to danzig, already by myself. But, there's already this ridiculously huge succession war. But yea, I agree with most of that. Cept in the case of Silesia, which exists for some odd reason, that no one can explain... -Not even archduke-

Then you have a fun challenge.

Find a reason for Silesia, or we can remove it. Now, there's a way to get a tag if you really think we are short.

BUT, if we are thinking that the Lithuanian conflict produced a number of states at the demand of the emperor, including a reformed Poland and Danzig, Silesia could have been another. And when we include the lands granted to Halych-Volhynia, we can see the Emperor has established a nice thick buffer of legitimate states between Germany and the TO to help make it clear that the TO has does not border the empire and has no claim within it.

 

[panther-anthro]

That's true, but Silesia might be better off merged into Brandenburg, on a very odd note. With it 'seceding' during the succession crisis.

 

[MattyG]

That's true, but Silesia might be better off merged into Brandenburg, on a very odd note. With it 'seceding' during the succession crisis.

Maybe, but we need more minors, not fewer.

If we start germany with lots of four and five province countries then we give players less room to grow without having to DoW a large state, as well as reducing the overall BB to be earned from spreading within the empire.