Yesterday I suggested in the latest Development Diary that the Development Team revisit the historical inaccuracies in playing Southeast Asia, which was completely understandable why the Devs did not focus on fixing the region first, because of the other more important things the team have, to focus on. However, with the new addition of the Chinese Empire mechanic, I thought it would be the perfect time for them to revisit the rest of Asia as well, and @DDRJake was kind enough to reply to it, and per his suggestion, I have decided to formulate well-thought out and historically accurate adjustments to playing Southeast Asia in general. Because of the large amounts of history we have to go through, me and my buddy @SlowDuck decided to seperate the suggestions into different threads based on nations. Hopefully this can help provide the Development Team with a more comprehensive look at Southeast Asia, and as a history buff and a huge fan of EU4, I'm very excited and impressed with the directions the Development Team are taking so far, and tried my best with SlowDuck to create historically accurate, in-depth and balanced ideas So let us begin with the Kingdom of Ayutthaya, one of the major regional powers in EU4's timeframe until it's fall to the Burmese in the 18th century.
Ayutthaya
Ayutthaya was one of the foremost powers in Southeast Asia, it’s only main military rival was the Kingdom of Burma under Taungoo, with other smaller rivalries towards the Vietnamese and the Sultanate of Malacca. Starting from the late 14th century, Ayutthaya began expanding significantly, growing to incorporate the majority of modern day Thailand, Laos and Cambodia as muang, or vassal states sworn directly to the King of Ayutthaya. Key military incursions include the conquest of Angkor, and subsequent subjugation of the Khmer state, subjugation of the Upper Chao Phraya Valley, which leads me to conclude that I believe Ayutthaya’s ideas should be very military-oriented. Furthermore, Ayutthaya was one of the wealthiest cities in the East during the sixteenth century, and fostered close ties with King Louis XIV of France, and French ambassadors often compared the city in size and wealth to Paris (1), and therefore should have maybe one or two trade/diplomatic ideas. This is a base idea fix for Ayutthaya that I came up with, although it may require modification for balance with other nations.
Traditions:
I saw no need to modify the historically accurate +20% religious unity +1 max promoted cultures in the latest patch.
Ideas:
1. “War Elephants Royal Elephant Corps”: +10% Cavalry Combat Ability
A large portion of Ayutthaya’s armies were the war elephants, specifically caught, trained and bred in the royal palace grounds. The office of Commander of the Royal Elephant Corps was one of the most prestigious military distinctions during the kingdom’s early years, with one commander even having enough power to usurp the crown. Elephants were used to demoralize and trample enemies on the battlefield, and was one of the iconic symbols of Ayutthayan pride.
2. “Contact with the West”: +10% Institution Spread
Starting from 1511, Ayutthaya had entered diplomatic relations with the King of Portugal. In later years during the late seventeenth century, the court of King Narai was very close with that of King Louis XIV of France, which significantly increased technological development in the country.
3. "Import TarrifsPhraklang”: +10% National Tax ModifierTaxation of ships carrying goods into the city of Ayutthaya was very heavy, and a large amount of the early Ayutthayan economy was based on this taxation, with ships being taxed based on the weight of it's goods. The government official tasked with dealing with this was known as the 'Phraklang', although Westerners often referred to him as the Barcalon
4. “King NaresuanKing Naresuan's Legacy”: +1 Land Leader Maneuver
King Naresuan is one of modern-day Thailand’s legendary heroes, and reigned as King of Ayutthaya from 1590 until his death in 1605. His military campaigns and impressive guerrilla strategies allowed Thai troops to throw off Burmese invasion, despite being severely outnumbered. Later military leaders, including the modern fascist government of Field Marshal Pibulsongkram used his tactics to format a plan to invade neighboring countries, or to protect against invading countries.
5. “Foreign TradeVenice of the East”: +10% Production Efficiency
Ayutthaya produced goods such as rice, sugar, hides and other key commodities valued by both European and Chinese traders. From the thirteenth to fifteenth century, significant rice cultivation took place, with larger farms, better irrigation and much more efficient production of goods to be consumed, taxed, or traded. Ayutthaya's wealth grew so immensely, because of the city's sophisticated canal networks, Westerners started to refer to the city as the Venice of the East.
6. “Foreign Expertise”: +10% Infantry Combat Ability
Ayutthayan kings often employed foreign troops in their armies, ranging from Japanese bodyguards to Portuguese mercenary gunners. The variety of different never-before-seen troops gave Ayutthayan armies a significant advantage when it came to battle against neighbors.
7. “Thai Nationalism”: +15% Army Morale
Throughout the entirety of Ayutthaya’s lifespan as a kingdom, patriotism was encouraged by the government, and even today in the modern era, the example of Ayutthaya is portrayed by nationalistic leaders as the key example of Thai pride.
Ambitions:
“The Muang/Mandala SystemWater of Loyalty”: -15% States Maintenence
The Muang/Mandala System kept the kingdom in place through the maintenance of various vassal cities, or muang, allowing the King of Ayutthaya easy control of trade and commerce in these cities. The King designated the ‘Phraya’ or Lord of a city, who would then swear their fealty either directly to the King, or one of his close relatives. Each year, the city paid tax and acted as both a vassal and a tributary and the lord was obligated to drink the ‘water of loyalty’ on an annual basis, proving his loyalty to Ayutthaya.
Furthermore, I believe all Thai states should be given the option to form the Kingdom of Siam (for gameplay purposes, let us assume that by Tech level 20, the player should have been successful enough to warrant an Empire level rank increase) at Tech level 20. Siam itself was a very multi-cultural nation, and the name of the nation switched to Thailand during the ‘Thaification’ period of the early 20th century fascist governments who wanted a ‘racially pure’ Thai state, therefore it makes sense that it should be able to be formed by both Northern or Central Thais with no distinction being made between the two. As for the other cultures in the Thai culture group (Laotians, Shan and Zhuang), that can also perhaps be addressed. There is already a nation called the Shan States ingame, which does not really need to be changed, but perhaps being able to form the Kingdom of Laos would also be a nice touch for Lan Xang players.
Requirements of forming Siam:
Thank you for reading, and I hope me and my friend have done a good job with balance and historical accuracy. If you have any queries or comments at all, please do not hesitate to ask/comment.
EDIT: In another very similar post, @fedrikslicer mentioned our original idea names were quite generic, so I revisited them, with a strikethrough our original idea names. Thank you fedrickslicer!
Ayutthaya
Ayutthaya was one of the foremost powers in Southeast Asia, it’s only main military rival was the Kingdom of Burma under Taungoo, with other smaller rivalries towards the Vietnamese and the Sultanate of Malacca. Starting from the late 14th century, Ayutthaya began expanding significantly, growing to incorporate the majority of modern day Thailand, Laos and Cambodia as muang, or vassal states sworn directly to the King of Ayutthaya. Key military incursions include the conquest of Angkor, and subsequent subjugation of the Khmer state, subjugation of the Upper Chao Phraya Valley, which leads me to conclude that I believe Ayutthaya’s ideas should be very military-oriented. Furthermore, Ayutthaya was one of the wealthiest cities in the East during the sixteenth century, and fostered close ties with King Louis XIV of France, and French ambassadors often compared the city in size and wealth to Paris (1), and therefore should have maybe one or two trade/diplomatic ideas. This is a base idea fix for Ayutthaya that I came up with, although it may require modification for balance with other nations.
Traditions:
I saw no need to modify the historically accurate +20% religious unity +1 max promoted cultures in the latest patch.
Ideas:
1. “
A large portion of Ayutthaya’s armies were the war elephants, specifically caught, trained and bred in the royal palace grounds. The office of Commander of the Royal Elephant Corps was one of the most prestigious military distinctions during the kingdom’s early years, with one commander even having enough power to usurp the crown. Elephants were used to demoralize and trample enemies on the battlefield, and was one of the iconic symbols of Ayutthayan pride.
2. “Contact with the West”: +10% Institution Spread
Starting from 1511, Ayutthaya had entered diplomatic relations with the King of Portugal. In later years during the late seventeenth century, the court of King Narai was very close with that of King Louis XIV of France, which significantly increased technological development in the country.
3. "
4. “
King Naresuan is one of modern-day Thailand’s legendary heroes, and reigned as King of Ayutthaya from 1590 until his death in 1605. His military campaigns and impressive guerrilla strategies allowed Thai troops to throw off Burmese invasion, despite being severely outnumbered. Later military leaders, including the modern fascist government of Field Marshal Pibulsongkram used his tactics to format a plan to invade neighboring countries, or to protect against invading countries.
5. “
Ayutthaya produced goods such as rice, sugar, hides and other key commodities valued by both European and Chinese traders. From the thirteenth to fifteenth century, significant rice cultivation took place, with larger farms, better irrigation and much more efficient production of goods to be consumed, taxed, or traded. Ayutthaya's wealth grew so immensely, because of the city's sophisticated canal networks, Westerners started to refer to the city as the Venice of the East.
6. “Foreign Expertise”: +10% Infantry Combat Ability
Ayutthayan kings often employed foreign troops in their armies, ranging from Japanese bodyguards to Portuguese mercenary gunners. The variety of different never-before-seen troops gave Ayutthayan armies a significant advantage when it came to battle against neighbors.
7. “Thai Nationalism”: +15% Army Morale
Throughout the entirety of Ayutthaya’s lifespan as a kingdom, patriotism was encouraged by the government, and even today in the modern era, the example of Ayutthaya is portrayed by nationalistic leaders as the key example of Thai pride.
Ambitions:
“
The Muang/Mandala System kept the kingdom in place through the maintenance of various vassal cities, or muang, allowing the King of Ayutthaya easy control of trade and commerce in these cities. The King designated the ‘Phraya’ or Lord of a city, who would then swear their fealty either directly to the King, or one of his close relatives. Each year, the city paid tax and acted as both a vassal and a tributary and the lord was obligated to drink the ‘water of loyalty’ on an annual basis, proving his loyalty to Ayutthaya.
Furthermore, I believe all Thai states should be given the option to form the Kingdom of Siam (for gameplay purposes, let us assume that by Tech level 20, the player should have been successful enough to warrant an Empire level rank increase) at Tech level 20. Siam itself was a very multi-cultural nation, and the name of the nation switched to Thailand during the ‘Thaification’ period of the early 20th century fascist governments who wanted a ‘racially pure’ Thai state, therefore it makes sense that it should be able to be formed by both Northern or Central Thais with no distinction being made between the two. As for the other cultures in the Thai culture group (Laotians, Shan and Zhuang), that can also perhaps be addressed. There is already a nation called the Shan States ingame, which does not really need to be changed, but perhaps being able to form the Kingdom of Laos would also be a nice touch for Lan Xang players.
Requirements of forming Siam:
- Administrative Tech Level 20
- Has ‘Central Thai’ or ‘Northern Thai’ as primary culture
- Is not a theocracy or horde
- Owns core provinces: Ayutthaya, Sukhothai, Chiang Mai and Nakhon Sri Thammarat (Negara Sri Dharmaraja at the start of the game)
- Grants permanent claim on Central Thailand, Northern Thailand, Khorat, Central Tenasserim and North Tenasserim regions.
- Set government rank to Empire
- Gain 25 prestige
- Gain “Increased Centralization” modifier for 10 years
- (New ideas? This is completely up to the developers, and if you guys are interested in new ideas for Siam, I’m very happy to assist)
Thank you for reading, and I hope me and my friend have done a good job with balance and historical accuracy. If you have any queries or comments at all, please do not hesitate to ask/comment.
EDIT: In another very similar post, @fedrikslicer mentioned our original idea names were quite generic, so I revisited them, with a strikethrough our original idea names. Thank you fedrickslicer!
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