Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries

Flaw in the way hero vehicles are implemented?

Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Age of Wonders: Planetfall 3784 Bug reports 1669 Suggestions 539 User Mods 95 AoW: Planetfall: News and Updates Archive 41 Multiplayer 55
T

torontorock

Private
5 Badges
Aug 19, 2019
17
3
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
Hola all, just started to mess around and learn the game which I am enjoying so far. I have noticed an issue with the way hero vehicles are implemented and would like to bring it up here so that it could possibly be improved.
I noticed that when I equip vehicles in a heroes primary weapon slot, the hero actually loses health and armor. This makes no sense to me. Why would a hero lose his natural health and armor when mounting a vehicle? For example, I have a vanguard hero with 100 health (he has vitality 3) and 3 armor, but when I equip a gunship his health drops to 80 and his armor to 2. This makes no sense. In fact, if he's surrounded by the armor of the gunship as well as his own, his armor should go up not down and his health should remain the same. There are many other examples of this with other vehicles as well.
It seems to me that, when equipping a vehicle, a hero should simply gain that vehicles abilities and designations, perhaps get an armor or shield bonus depending on what kind of vehicle is equipped, and keep his health as is. I love the idea of heros "mounting" various vehicles, I just think it needs to be slightly tweeked so that it makes more sense. Any thoughts?
 
Nope. Let me ask you this, when you get in a car and drive did you become stronger in punching someone living lights out? Nay.


What happens is that hero's hp/armor becomes protected by your vehicles hp/armor. If the tank you was riding in explodes you're kicked out. With all your hp intact. They destroyed your tank now they have to kill you personally and go through your 100 hp.

So if tank had 80 hp. You had an total of 180 hp. And what's more, vehicle can protect you from overkill damage, if a wrecker did 100 damage to your tank. It explodes but you are still safe and not take 20 damage.

Current system is pretty good tbh.
 
Ah ok then I didn't fully understand how the vehicle system works. I didn't realise that you get kicked out with all your hp intact. So a vehicle is actually a massive boost to survivability then it seems. Like I said I'm still learning the game. Thanks for your explanation :)
 
R4tKing said:
The hero does not actually get out with full hp. In my experience he comes out with quite low hp and no primary weapon.
Click to expand...

Yes I have not bothered with vehicles myself yet. But AI heroes I kill using vehicles this is what happens. After it explodes they are left with like 20% health. I'm guessing it might be different for Assembly heroes though or Dvar in the Baron armor suit.
 
Nope that's how it works. Giving heroes vehicles just seems really weak in general. It costs a lot of skillpoints while being a sidegrade at best in many cases. The tier 3 vehicles are even worse deals, requiring a massive skill point investment while being less capable than an infantry hero with a tier 3 or 4 weapon.
 
You start from the base stats of the vehicle but it also gets the benefit of your hero perks. I agree that piloting 2 is too costly for the benefit. Its only really worth it for a select few mounts. Like the Wrecker or Tyranodon.
 
Piloting is generally considered weaker, but I find it is still useful so long as you understand you're not there to do damage. Some support vehicles are excellent, and it's also the only way to get hero leadership on air stacks.
 
wingren013 said:
Nope that's how it works. Giving heroes vehicles just seems really weak in general. It costs a lot of skillpoints while being a sidegrade at best in many cases. The tier 3 vehicles are even worse deals, requiring a massive skill point investment while being less capable than an infantry hero with a tier 3 or 4 weapon.
Click to expand...
Giving heroes vehicles is a strategic choice. It lets them keep up with stacks of bikes or flyers for deep strikes into enemy territory.
 
King of Zoot said:
Giving heroes vehicles is a strategic choice. It lets them keep up with stacks of bikes or flyers for deep strikes into enemy territory.
Click to expand...
Yes it has a large amount of strategic advantages that can make standard piloting useful in some cases. But it's not worth a 15 point investment to put them in a tank. (I think it's 15 total. I could be misremembering the cost for piloting and advanced piloting)
 
Piloting 2 would be fine if it didn't cost 10 points and was only available at level 10, way after you can research the vehicles in question.

Quick and cheap field-upgrades to the next tier of unit is neat, tho, a Hero doesn't have to wait for a unit to be built.
 
You basically get the piloting skill for free though if you pick it at the start. With the vehicle loadout you get piloting + vitality I & II, worth 11 points in total, while with other loadouts you only get 4 points worth. For me this is enough reason to always pick the perk on your leader at least, even if you do not end up riding a vehicle all the time.
And the second piloting skill is situationally useful, if you have a race with a strong T3 option, like the assembly wrecker.
 
My suggestion would be this:

The higher tier Piloting skills increase the amount of health you exit the vehicle with. The highest possible tier skill could even give you 100% health. At that point, secondary weapons also become more useful. Some are good, but most I've come across are simply inferior to primaries.
 
I like the suggestion about advanced piloting giving extra utility and skills, that would be really cool.

Another option would be to perhaps just lower the level requirement from 8 to 6, and maybe also slightly decrease the cost of the skill. I'm guessing that fix is a lot easier, even easily moddable?
 
Hunnuli said:
What bugs me most about Advanced Piloting is that in the campaign you can't get the skill in the first map but you can get Tier IV mount drops. That is kinda annoying since nothing stops you from using a good T4 weapon for other heroes. I wish Advanced piloting instead of gating the equips gave an 'unlock' to all the mounts instead. So you can hide the 'powerful' abilities of a T4 mount behind the unlock while still letting them being ridden in a basic fashion. This would also let the low tier vehicles get a buff for those who like their aesthetics and would make the skill useful for those who only plan to stick to T1 and T2 vehicles. Would be easier to balance for the 10 point cost too I think.
Click to expand...

I like this idea, and it kinda makes sense because tier IV weapons are (understandably) OP and have no skill requiered to be used. But that also makes me think, maybe tier IV weapons SHOULD have a skill requierement? Like "Advanced Weaponry" or something like that. I don't know if this would be balanced / necessary / logic, it's just something that came to me.

Personally, I would add more skills related to vehicles specifically. Something like "Customized vehicles" that unlocks a passive or active skill in the vehicle (tied to the vehicle or mount), "Emergency protocols" that lets you exit with something like 60% health when the vehicle is destroyed, "Tier I / II / III / IV specialization" so the hero gets extra armour, or health, or damage, or whatever buff with said tier of vehicles ... Things like that.

Also a skill that lets you wear another secondary weapon (like the one that lets you have an additional mod) would be cool in general, and for vehicle heroes specifically.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back