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OOC: I´m not an expert in British/history politics, so... Would it be too early/unrealistic for the female, suffragette MP? XD
OOC: Yes. The Suffragettes don't even exist yet, let alone the female vote/female MPs.
It is in the opinion of the Prime Minister that discussion in the House of Commons has slown to a standstill, and thus we must proceed forth.
I would like to direct the attention of the Commons towards the issues facing our nation today. We must not be afraid to speak of it, but our esteemed Navy, the Pride of the British Empire, is in danger of falling into disrepair and disaster. I believe to move forward, we must think about evaluating the Great Navies of Europe, and see how we can better equip ourselves and the Royal Navy to face any and all threats that might arise in the Future.
-The Rt. Hon. Prime Minister
I would like to direct the attention of the Commons towards the issues facing our nation today. We must not be afraid to speak of it, but our esteemed Navy, the Pride of the British Empire, is in danger of falling into disrepair and disaster. I believe to move forward, we must think about evaluating the Great Navies of Europe, and see how we can better equip ourselves and the Royal Navy to face any and all threats that might arise in the Future.
-The Rt. Hon. Prime Minister
I agree with the Right Honourable Prime Minister; the Navy must be repaired soon. However, I believe that any such discussions should begin once this conflict in South Africa is resolved, and our full attention can be devoted to our most powerful weapon.
Secretary of State for India Anthony Harrison DSO, MP for Liverpool Exchange
Secretary of State for India Anthony Harrison DSO, MP for Liverpool Exchange
Name: Albert Francis Johnston, QC
Age: 49
Constituency: City of London
Party: Conservative
Biography: Born to a family of recusant gentry, Johnston recieved a public school education at Stonyhurst, and was called to the Bar after entering the Middle Temple. He took silk in 1896 after some years in London handling criminal cases at Old Bailey, including several cases involving Irish nationalists and crimes they committed. His experience in the courts has made him a staunch opponent of Home Rule; despite being a practicing Catholic, he sees himself as a British subject, and sees Irish demands as absurd in light of Catholic emancipation. He was elected as one of the City of London's two MPs in the 1900 General Election.
Age: 49
Constituency: City of London
Party: Conservative
Biography: Born to a family of recusant gentry, Johnston recieved a public school education at Stonyhurst, and was called to the Bar after entering the Middle Temple. He took silk in 1896 after some years in London handling criminal cases at Old Bailey, including several cases involving Irish nationalists and crimes they committed. His experience in the courts has made him a staunch opponent of Home Rule; despite being a practicing Catholic, he sees himself as a British subject, and sees Irish demands as absurd in light of Catholic emancipation. He was elected as one of the City of London's two MPs in the 1900 General Election.
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Mr. Speaker,
I would like to ask my friend the Right Honourable Prime Minister whether there is any chance he will assent to recognizing the absurd possibility of so-called Home Rule for Ireland. As he knows, some misguided honourable members believe that we ought to dismember our country. I inquire if it is still the policy of this Government that Ireland will remain an integral part of this Realm, entitled to no more or less representation than, say, Scotland.
-The Learned Member for the City of London (A.F. Johnston)
I would like to ask my friend the Right Honourable Prime Minister whether there is any chance he will assent to recognizing the absurd possibility of so-called Home Rule for Ireland. As he knows, some misguided honourable members believe that we ought to dismember our country. I inquire if it is still the policy of this Government that Ireland will remain an integral part of this Realm, entitled to no more or less representation than, say, Scotland.
-The Learned Member for the City of London (A.F. Johnston)
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My Honorable Colleague, I would like to ask why you think the Irish do not deserve home rule? You think by forcing the Irish to remain a part of the Empire that the Irish Nationalists will go away. Does that seem logical? If we are given Home Rule, the fight against oppression will be over! Irish Home Rule will not destroy the British Empire, we still rule almost all of Africa, Oceania, Canada, India and many more so letting Ireland become a free nation it will not ruin the mighty Empire. It will let people who for centuries have been oppressed finally achieve the freedom they deserve.
A good Catholic should not be so ignorant to the fact that you say no to Irish Home Rule will only cause more problems in the future, and do not make the decision against Home Rule because your works in law.
~N.O'Mara
A good Catholic should not be so ignorant to the fact that you say no to Irish Home Rule will only cause more problems in the future, and do not make the decision against Home Rule because your works in law.
~N.O'Mara
I am certain the Right Honourable Prime Minister opposes Home Rule, and that this matter will not be addressed, at least not favourably to those nationalists, anytime soon.
Secretary of State for India Anthony Harrison DSO, MP for Liverpool Exchange
Secretary of State for India Anthony Harrison DSO, MP for Liverpool Exchange
OOC: Well I had intended to let this game quietly die, but seeing as there is interest, I shall continue it. We seem to be in a deadlock though, so I'm going to do a little timeskip by one or two months to January 1901. I'll also be automatically choosing Kitchener for South Africa and keeping Milner there too if the relevant cabinet ministers continue to tarry. Everyone fine with this?
Also welcome to the game Aussieboy. Excellent character, but can you specify which political party he belongs to?
Also welcome to the game Aussieboy. Excellent character, but can you specify which political party he belongs to?
The hon. Member for the City of London: Mr. Speaker, I ask that you kindly request the hon. Member for South Kilkenny to refer to me and other Queen's Counsellors by their proper term of address, that is, in the context, "My Learned Friend". I would think after decades of Emancipation, I could recieve at least that courtesy from this House.
Furthermore, I do not see how the improvement of the condition of Roman Catholic subjects such as myself and the hon. Member for South Kilkenny cannot be achieved within the framework of this Realm. Roman Catholics can now sit in Parliament - the hon. Member and I are proof positive of that. The hon. Member is no longer obligated to pay tithes to Protestants, a condition which, I may add, puts the hon. Member at an advantage to myself. Our priests preach freely, no-one slaughters us for hearing Mass. I can hardly call that oppression. What improvements to our lot are necessary, I wubmit, ought to be undertaken as British subjects - Catholic Britons, yes, but Britons all the same. I do not begrudge the hon. Member the title of Irishman, but it is no different from someone being a Welshman or a Scot or a Londoner. None of those labels are sufficient reason to unnecessarily divide this united kingdom.
Furthermore, Home Rule would face another problem. Under this framework, the hon. Member for South Kilkenny would have the power to decide on English affairs, but absurdly would have less power to decide on Irish affairs. The illogic of that fact proves the absurdity of the cries for Home Rule. There is then a similar problem wherein the hon. Member could decide on affairs affecting the City of London, but I would have not have the consonant power as a Member to decide on affairs in, say, Dublin, giving him inordinate power in England and Scotland and a mockery at home. The creation of two classes of member is what Home Rule would lead to, a fact that ought to be abominable to this House.
The other solution, of course, that of Fenian calls for total independence, smacks of so much disloyalty that I would venture that no member of this house, Irish or not, would countenance it.
Home Rule is a fool's game, and the alternative is treason. The only workable path is the maintenance of Irishmen as equal subjects to Englishmen, Scotsmen and Welshmen, with no more and no less rights, regardless of religion.
Furthermore, I do not see how the improvement of the condition of Roman Catholic subjects such as myself and the hon. Member for South Kilkenny cannot be achieved within the framework of this Realm. Roman Catholics can now sit in Parliament - the hon. Member and I are proof positive of that. The hon. Member is no longer obligated to pay tithes to Protestants, a condition which, I may add, puts the hon. Member at an advantage to myself. Our priests preach freely, no-one slaughters us for hearing Mass. I can hardly call that oppression. What improvements to our lot are necessary, I wubmit, ought to be undertaken as British subjects - Catholic Britons, yes, but Britons all the same. I do not begrudge the hon. Member the title of Irishman, but it is no different from someone being a Welshman or a Scot or a Londoner. None of those labels are sufficient reason to unnecessarily divide this united kingdom.
Furthermore, Home Rule would face another problem. Under this framework, the hon. Member for South Kilkenny would have the power to decide on English affairs, but absurdly would have less power to decide on Irish affairs. The illogic of that fact proves the absurdity of the cries for Home Rule. There is then a similar problem wherein the hon. Member could decide on affairs affecting the City of London, but I would have not have the consonant power as a Member to decide on affairs in, say, Dublin, giving him inordinate power in England and Scotland and a mockery at home. The creation of two classes of member is what Home Rule would lead to, a fact that ought to be abominable to this House.
The other solution, of course, that of Fenian calls for total independence, smacks of so much disloyalty that I would venture that no member of this house, Irish or not, would countenance it.
Home Rule is a fool's game, and the alternative is treason. The only workable path is the maintenance of Irishmen as equal subjects to Englishmen, Scotsmen and Welshmen, with no more and no less rights, regardless of religion.
My honourable colleague from the City of London truly makes a convincing argument, one which I agree with wholeheartedly; the only workable solution is to bring Ireland into the British fold, not create further division. This Parliament must work to ensure that the Irish are an equal playing field to that of other Britons, with no obstacles or blockages stemming from governmental regulation; to set Ireland apart from the rest of the Isles will only brew more discontent and possibly lead to even more drastic actions by the radical factions.
Equality and fairness should be our goals, not disunion and aparthood!
Secretary of State for India Anthony Harrison DSO, MP for Liverpool Exchange
Equality and fairness should be our goals, not disunion and aparthood!
Secretary of State for India Anthony Harrison DSO, MP for Liverpool Exchange
The learned Member for the City of London: Ireland already is in the British fold, Mr. Speaker. It has been so since the Act of Union.
My Learned Friend, you cannot deny the oppression of the Irish. Though the Irish are the same as everyone else we are treated a second class citizens by the British. During, the God forsaken famine the prestigious London Times newspaper and many more printed an article stating that it was the Lord's punishment for being Catholic. we are looked down upon, on Irish land there is legalized plundering. Taking Irish land that they owned for years, to the English landlords which in turn made the Irish slaves of their land. In the end the Irish worked the land and whatever they grew was owned by the English who invaded this country.
If you don't think the Irish deserve a seat in parliament to dictate what goes on in this entire nation, than why have Ireland become independent and self-governing so that we don't need to have a voice in your Empire. Do you not think the Irish have a right to discuss what happens in the Empire?
How dare you say the English don't get into Irish affairs. That's the only thing the English have been doing! They've been in our business taking our possessions, ruling us by force and starving us for centuries. The Irish people: deprived, living in poverty and fear are now sick and tired of it, they want to be free!
~N. O'Mara
If you don't think the Irish deserve a seat in parliament to dictate what goes on in this entire nation, than why have Ireland become independent and self-governing so that we don't need to have a voice in your Empire. Do you not think the Irish have a right to discuss what happens in the Empire?
How dare you say the English don't get into Irish affairs. That's the only thing the English have been doing! They've been in our business taking our possessions, ruling us by force and starving us for centuries. The Irish people: deprived, living in poverty and fear are now sick and tired of it, they want to be free!
~N. O'Mara
Mr. Speaker, the Famine has long gone. In fact, among the preminent landowners in Ireland, there are as many Catholics as those who belong to the Church of Ireland! Surely if anyone is supposedly enslaving anyone, the Irish Catholics who every day purchase the land of that dwindling class of Protestant landlords are as guilty? Or does the hon. Member for South Kilkenny object to people owning a lot of land? I hope he knows as well as I do that there is nothing morally objectionable with owning private property.
Furthermore, I never objected to the representation of Ireland in this Parliament or any other Parliament. My objection is to Home Rule, which unnecessarily divides this realm. If an Irish subject wishes to change his society, he can do so through his member of Parliament here, in Westminster. There is no need to have a separate Parliament in Dublin Castle, any more than there needs to be a separate Parliament in Cardiff or Essex or Birmingham. Irish Members can discuss Imperial and other affairs here, like any other hon. Member. The Irish are as free as a Scot or a Londoner or a Lancastrian. What a pity it is that some hon. Members seem to think Emancipation never happened, indeed that the past few decades have not happened. Indeed, does not an Irishman serve as Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales? I would venture the Lord Chief Justice is far from being oppressed. I would have expected such radical sentiments from Irish Americans, not in this Parliament.
Furthermore, I never objected to the representation of Ireland in this Parliament or any other Parliament. My objection is to Home Rule, which unnecessarily divides this realm. If an Irish subject wishes to change his society, he can do so through his member of Parliament here, in Westminster. There is no need to have a separate Parliament in Dublin Castle, any more than there needs to be a separate Parliament in Cardiff or Essex or Birmingham. Irish Members can discuss Imperial and other affairs here, like any other hon. Member. The Irish are as free as a Scot or a Londoner or a Lancastrian. What a pity it is that some hon. Members seem to think Emancipation never happened, indeed that the past few decades have not happened. Indeed, does not an Irishman serve as Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales? I would venture the Lord Chief Justice is far from being oppressed. I would have expected such radical sentiments from Irish Americans, not in this Parliament.
It is in the opinion of the Prime Minister to see that the Irish Question be resolved in legislation. However, as Prime Minister, I will stand against anything that gives Ireland Home Rule. They are just as representative in Parliament as any other member of the British Isles. I do not see the need for the Irish to be given special treatment. All of us are loyal subjects of the crown, and the United Kingdom runs on the ideas of the majority of the people, who have elected their Members of Parliament that share their ideas. If the Irish feel so strongly about a subject, they should work with the Parliament, and not spurn it, to enact the change they seek.
- The Rt. Hon. Prime Minister Monckton
- The Rt. Hon. Prime Minister Monckton