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Henry V

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Jul 24, 2002
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I've come to the conclusion that France is unstoppable. It's usually the most dangerous AI-controlled rival (even without the 600 mission points) because its economy is so powerful.

I tried France again, and was somewhat more ruthless than the first time I played it. I began by winning the Hundred Years War so that, by the time Joan of Arc showed up, there were no English on the Continent (but France held Wessex).

The French economy was sufficiently good that it was unnecessary to borrow money to fund a relentless offensive that continued to a 100 percent advantage for peace negotiations. The key is cavalry, cavalry, and more cavalry. It kills the enemy armies (shock is paramount in the early game) and then you can cut your land pay to fifty percent while your soldiers sit around the enemy fortresses, play cards, and wait for capitulation.

By 1650 or so, France was the only country that counted. Again, the economy is so good that you can buy a new manufactory every few years! You can pump out troops without worrying too much about your budget, and simply overrun your opponents. Even if you start to get war exhaustion, you're in a position to recruit swarms of cavalry to oppress the Rebel Scum. (I went almost maximum narrowminded, offset by max. centralization to balance war exhaustion against research and production.)

Circa 1780, "We Are the World," or "We Rule the World." Austria: force-vasselized and diploannexed, same for Poland and Spain. (It's novel, to say the least, to see people whom you've never heard of before getting elected Holy Roman Emperor.) France now stretches from Portugal's borders to Moscow (Russia was diploannexed) and includes half of Italy and most of Central Europe. England was just force-vasselized. The only countries that are left are Sweden, Novgorod, and a couple of little German states. History effectively came to an end circa 1700, with no one willing to start a war in Europe. France has 7000-plus points, more than three times as many as the second-place country (someone like Bengal or Delhi, as no major Europeans are really left).

France is "hated throughout the world" (I think this is the worst possible "Bad Boy" rating, unless you get "Evil Empire" somewhere along the line)-- diploannexing major countries like Poland and Austria, and ruthless suppression of independence movements earned me that one. Of course, no one dares do anything about it...

Revenge for Tordesillas... the Spaniards (before I overran them) were irritating them with repeated attacks on my American colonies and armies. They'd manage to beat my army (they could lose four times if they only won once) and take over my colony, or even lay siege to my city. I finally got tired of it. Just because they're ALLOWED to do it doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea, especially when there's a mainland connection between you and a colossus like France. So I finally invaded them and vasselized them.

When they were vasselized, I could move my armies into THEIR American territories and kill THEIR armies. (Tordesillas, as it's set up now, means an automatic battle when a Spanish or Portuguese army meets a foreign one. I've suggested changing this to make combat optional on Spain's or Portugal's part.) This was not mere sport; the Spanish armies were trying to relieve cities that were beset by Rebel Scum. The French commander, having driven off or destroyed the Spaniards, said to the rebels, "Go ahead with what you are doing." :) Which meant, of course, a couple of nice defections.

Speaking of which, the option of refusing a defection should be offered. If you're Hannover and surrounded entirely by France, do you REALLY want Magdeburg to defect to you and give France a casus belli?

How do people handle the starting rules for multiplayer? It would seem that whoever gets France has a decidedly unfair advantage because the economy (and manpower) are so good.
 
Don't have a human play France. :)
 
Or only let total newbie play France, as sort of a handicap. This is important not just for France but for all nations. If you want a good MP game I think you need to balance the players by selecting nations according to skill level.
 
This is completely rediculous.

I've played more multiplayer EUII games then just about anyone with the minor possibility of John.

And you know what? I have never seen France win a game during a campaign in which either me or John was not France. France is easily countered. 1419 is one of the hardest GCs to play MP because of the English/French situation. England is so dominating France, that a very good player ussually has to begin as them to prevent England from annexing them.

In 1492, a Spain/Austria combination can take them out everytime. Of course, if the French player is better then the Spanish/Austrian players, it won't go so well, but if teh Spanish/Austrian players are better then the French player, it will be a slaughter.

Hell. I've seen games where France has been forced to ally with Spain or Austria to counter a massive Spain or Austria or Ottomans.

Labelling any country unstoppable is just a mark of limited experience.
 
What happens in 1492 however is that, instead of England/Austria/Spain looking out for each other until the better years ahead, they let France pick on them one by one.

Countless times as France, I've been able to bully England into giving me Calais without a fight (or a small payment)...Then been able to bully Rousillon out of Spain. After that, it is simple enough to present a fait accompli to Austria. A particularly vicious France without a concern for game longevity can even snatch the Lowlands at this time.

However, one of the greatest pleasures as Austria is if your good enough, to be able to beat France silly. This isn't just idle boasting either. Austria gets a shock 5 general fairly soonish. After forming an alliance with Hungary and Bohemia, it also leaves the Austrian player free to absorb most of Germany...Giving them MORE manpower then France. Coupled with Dutch and Hungary, it makes France HAVE to attack Austria and keep them subdued or simply be overwhelmed by Austria's massive manpower on one hand and Spain's unlimited wealth on the other.

*shakes head* Play more then a dozen MP games, and anyone will see that no country is inherently dominant. By the same token that people claim that France needs to be teamed up on and pounced over, France and England also need to team up early to stop Spain. Austria as well if they get too aggressive.

The only country in 1492 that I have never seen able to develop enough momentum to become a huge threat is England. Austria, Ottomans, France, Spain and Russia can often become game-stoppers.
 
Damocles, you are only half right. Probably you have the last patch.

I play with patch 0 and sometimes the AI France is doing well, mostly after the first peace with England.

There is only one exception. IF I play against France, no matter how small I am.
With Savoy I beat them to death, with 54%, and only from homan mercy :D I took only Lyon and Dauphine. It is just the timing. The AI seem to be a little imbecile, it can't deal with more than 1 war, even if it is VERY eager to start one or join in.

All the times when one is 2-3 wars, it focus 90% only on one, so the others can easly beat him.
 
But we are talking about a human France.
 
MP eh? :D

France is intrinsically the strongest nation in the game but u need a lot more than that to win a game. One on one, France, played well, is just about unbeatable by any other nation (I only play 1492) but in MP games there's diplomacy, interplayer coalitions, a balance of power, ... and France will often be the victim of that because of their good position or any other nation that really is expanding like for example Spain, Austria, ... France already starts strong though.A nation becomes unstoppable when there's no will anymore to stop it.
 
A human France is just as that, human. If the human is an novice or an imbecile, it doesn't matter wich country he play, he will loose. But if the human is at least a medium player, then France IS unstopable.

Our friend :D , Jaron, should eat more lecitin, or any drugs that can improve his little american mind (used only to think of football, hamburgers and bear).

First of all, I just said in the last reply that I use patch 0, that means no patches at all.

And second, I am the one who asked him about those new colors, and he said he has a version of the files, but never send me anything.

As for my romanian version, is simple, ALL the romanian versions of games mean only one thing, they are pirate versions.
:D :D :D
The reason is quite simple, even that I am not poor at all, there is no place to buy them in Romania when they are new, and all the games in the stores are only 1-2-3 years old, so nobody want them anymore.
 
Originally posted by Wallahia Prince

As for my romanian version, is simple, ALL the romanian versions of games mean only one thing, they are pirate versions.
:D :D :D
The reason is quite simple, even that I am not poor at all, there is no place to buy them in Romania when they are new, and all the games in the stores are only 1-2-3 years old, so nobody want them anymore.
And ordering products from abroad is impossible in Romania? The concept of credit cards not having reached that nation yet :rolleyes:
 
Yes, we heard of credit card. :D
Problem is that 99% of them in Romania are only for internal use, in ROL currency and are only debit card, not credit.
If you want a credit card in $ is quite different than in USA. You must have an account in $, and minimum is ~500 -1000$. So who will want to have their money imobilized into an useless account ?
And also to be afraid that chances are more than 50% to get hacked and lost the money.:(
 
The trick with an AI France is to ruff them up before they own all of France. If England wins the 100 years war, it's going to be a long time before France can become a power. If you're playing a German minor or something like Savoy, it's pretty easy to keep France at bay and eventually annex them. If you play something like the Ottomans and leave the French alone, they can become a big power, but then you should be so huge, your numbers alone will take care of them.

The same thing works versus a human France. They start small and have to work hard to get all the French minors under their control. During that time, they're vulnerable, and even for the rest of the game, a good alliance (Austria and Spain) can take them down.
 
damocles you are right on lots of points, but one minor one you were very wrong.
England can be a strong nation, if you get off to a great start. If you are slow to start, then your done for. Any human English players main goal should be to have colonized the eastern seaboard before france every has an explorer, even joining with spain to form an anti-french colonizing collition. If spain and england do this right, it should only leave the poor new mexican provs or the far north provs of canada for france.

What you should of said was that the only nation that has no real chance is POLAND. no matter what, every time i have seen a polish player, he(and i say he cause i doubt any women play eu2 multiplayer) has had to select a new country before the first 100 years are up.
 
Originally posted by Damocles
This is completely rediculous.

I've played more multiplayer EUII games then just about anyone with the minor possibility of John.

And you know what? I have never seen France win a game during a campaign in which either me or John was not France. France is easily countered. 1419 is one of the hardest GCs to play MP because of the English/French situation. England is so dominating France, that a very good player ussually has to begin as them to prevent England from annexing them.

OK- if a human player is running England (which is quite likely), than I am unlikely to do to them what I did to the AI-controlled England. I suspect that the outcome, between players of roughly equal skill, would be that both countries would be so badly mauled by inflation (due to paying 100% military maintenance and building armies) that they'd be at a permanent disadvantage throughout the game.

As England (against a player-controlled France), I'd try to negotiate peace in the Hundred Years war, get to North America first, and grab the tobacco. I'd also jump the Lenape with or without a CB to get Manhattan and its CoT (plus Delaware and its tobacco). I might even do the same to the Aztecs, taking care not to get too much gold. Nonetheless, I'm not sure if even these resources would be enough to prevent a player-controlled France from gobbling up my Continental possessions.
 
Well when I am France it is all about diplomacy. I rarely go out side of my core provinces and I only colonize one section of the earth like Canada. Also I don't see why everyone goes after Spain. As long as they stay in the TOT area I am content with them.
 
Well starting in 1419 in multi-player, a good England player should always kick France's ass after which so long as they keep their guard up and aren't too lenient in the peace deal they should dominate France from then on baring other human players ganging up on them.

If England loses the HYW or starts in 1492, then no amount of colonising is going to enable the English to compete against France on the continent due to lack of manpower, but a good player should still be able to dominate in North America and elsewhere.
 
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