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We taught the Germans to be peaceful, not to be pacifists! Bah...hopefully, if Russia invades, Poland can stall them long enough for the rest of NATO to react..because if they get to Germany too fast you might get overrun. Lol, in all seriousness, I think its admirable that the German people have taken peace to heart.
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Like all things ... It's more nuanced. Germany of 2020 is not Germany of 1950. It is a stable and prosperous democracy that like France has a lot of potential to positively influence the world at large. It is less about defence against the Soviet Union and more about countering extremism and promoting freedom of choice and democracy and ultimately curtailing the global influence of China and Russia. Both of which have shown themselves to have more questionable ethics than the USA/UK.
Most of the comments about Germany not pulling their weight is because the US/UK/France want Germany to join them in making the world better.
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We? What did you personally do? I suspect sweet nothing other than sitting on your chair tapping away at a keyboard? Have you ever even been to Germany?
The vast majority of the 'we' are probably humble enough to avoid such grandiose generalisation and condemnation of a full set of people.
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Actually German literature thought me that, thank you.
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Of course we learned being peaceful from the US at a time when the country interned (Japanese) and forcibly emigrated (Mexican) its own citizens, along with being a racially segregated society (Afro-American) that still horribly oppressed anyone that got in its economic ways (Native Americans) and that after WW2 immediately started its own batch of wars (Korea, Vietnam ...) and that never, ever learned to honestly deal with any of these and other awful examples (Philippines) of its own history.
Bad examples are good teachers after all, and perhaps it is easier to see these flaws in others than in yourself.
Bad examples are good teachers after all, and perhaps it is easier to see these flaws in others than in yourself.
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I don't know if it was intentional, but you come across as the German version sunforged general.
The negative examples in US history you highlight are small potholes to the world ending craters of German history.
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@Pyoro -
And far easier to see the splinter in your neighbor's eye than the beam in your own.
Americans have certainly made mistakes and done bad things. Unlike most other people we have no problem bringing them out in the daylight, examining and discussing them, and trying to learn from them. Unlike the Nazis, the Soviets, the Maoists and others - I could go on, but won't.
@Herbert West - ah, such gratitude. All we ever did was save you from disasters of your own making in WW1 and WW2. It is true - save a man's life and you will never be forgiven.
Anyway, going back to the original topic. Does anyone have population figures from France dating from the post-Napoleonic period? I know that British population boomed during the industrial revolution. I don't know if other European nations show a similar (though probably lesser) rise, related to better hygiene and anti-septic practices. So is the drop in French birthrate strictly a post-WW1 phenomenon or can its roots be traced back earlier?
And far easier to see the splinter in your neighbor's eye than the beam in your own.
Americans have certainly made mistakes and done bad things. Unlike most other people we have no problem bringing them out in the daylight, examining and discussing them, and trying to learn from them. Unlike the Nazis, the Soviets, the Maoists and others - I could go on, but won't.
@Herbert West - ah, such gratitude. All we ever did was save you from disasters of your own making in WW1 and WW2. It is true - save a man's life and you will never be forgiven.
Anyway, going back to the original topic. Does anyone have population figures from France dating from the post-Napoleonic period? I know that British population boomed during the industrial revolution. I don't know if other European nations show a similar (though probably lesser) rise, related to better hygiene and anti-septic practices. So is the drop in French birthrate strictly a post-WW1 phenomenon or can its roots be traced back earlier?
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Maybe corona pandemia will bring about a new discussion about the glorious American values and unregulated capitalism that, frankly Europe has been better off not having.
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While the rest of your post took the off-topic even further with outright wrong political conclusions about the US attached to no evidence, I thank you for this effort of finally steering the thread back on topic.
Here is a graphic comparing the UK, Germany, Italy, Spain and France between 1800 and 2000 to see the difference in increase of population with the current borders:
France was ahead the rest of Europe in terms of reduced birthrates, with it being the only country to see that trend in the 19th century, meaning it was largely the lowered mortality and immigration which stood for the population increase during that century. Thus it is not at all a post post-WW1 phenomenon, the French exception is precisely it happening a long time before WW1. To the contrary of the United Kingdom and Germany the French population did not boom, even if it increased throughout the period. France also stayed much more rural than the very urbanised UK.
Here is France alone (I don't know how it factors in border changes):
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German literature chosen by the US and Britain. Face it, Germany had to be made peaceful, it wasn't something they'd chose on their own.
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Who still reads books from the 50s and 60s? Or are you implying, that us and britain still choses literature for germany? That is at least 30 years over
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Saldy you have very little understanding of Germans.
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With all due respect, you think the militarism from the years 1870-1945 would go away without the allies imposing education focused on the virtues of peace on the Germans?
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DiMaggio Schultz approves of this thread. Tell us more of how the US changed Germany forever with baseball.
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Your post is OT to this thread, also you should know by now when I post something like that, it's not as someone just posting. Stop with the OT. Not sure why you would risk a ban with a reply to a mod, since a reply is an auto infraction when direction on how the posting should go.
The interesting thing about this graph is that in 1871 the Germans had no demographic advantage over the French. Sure the French were no longer the most obviously populous nation in Europe any more, but they were not significantly outweighed by the Germans, as they would be by 1914. The cause of French loss of power is something more than just demographic.