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unmerged(166156)

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Sep 15, 2009
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  • Europa Universalis III Complete
I just picked up CK: Complete and started playing it after having gotten into Paradox games via EUIII: Complete. Consequently, I'll have a lot of softball questions over the next few weeks.

I am playing on a Mac version, but I think gameplay questions should apply across any format.

To start I have been playing as small counties (starting in 1066) - lately I have picked Neuchatel as my standard - for no other reason that I decided I wanted to play something in Switzerland that might not be right in the middle of a ton of action. Plus, I noticed that the count was young with a new young wife and no appreciable family, so I decided he would be a great starting point for learning about raising kids and managing a small dynasty - all while learning the basics of economic and province management, military development, technological development, etc.

I figured this would leave major military involvement and vassal / extended family politics to learn at a later date.

Here are some questions I haven't been able to figure out so far:

1) One of my courtiers at the start was a family dynasty member (a single 28 year old woman - poor girl, you know there has to be something wrong with her to still be single at that age in that time...) She had a decent Intrigue skill, so with limited courtiers, she became my Spy Master. My question is twofold:

How important is it to get her married off when she is a member of my dynasty - but not in my direct family tree (she wasn't listed as a child, parent, sibling, etc.)? Keep in mind that I was short of courtiers, so without her I had no Spy Master.

How do I predict or improve the chances of making a successful marriage overture (I failed maybe 15 times before someone took her... "U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no alibi...")?

2) About 6 years into the game, Germany fell apart. I managed that just fine, and even beat a few German armies in my area. But the experience brought out a couple more questions:

I could engage enemy armies by moving into the same province, but couldn't figure out how to conduct a siege (once the enemy army was defeated or no longer in the province). Is there a special command to commence a siege? (Keep in mind that I am playing on the Mac version.)

Army upkeep costs are, obviously, giant. I disbanded whenever possible to save gold and rebuild the army, and my income was decent for Neuchatel - mainly because of my trollop wife (who started dating everything with a "Y" chromasome in sight, but also had the "Midas Touch" and so made a rediculously good Steward). Once I had solidified my independence and could revert to a peaceful economy, my "Treasury" was in the negative by about 150. At my income rate of about 4/month, that would have taken about 4 years to erase, much less go positive. Does that sound right?, or is there a better way to manage things or gain income that I don't know about?

Thanks in advance.
 
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Welcome to CK.

Mooncusser said:
1) How important is it to get her married off when she is a member of my dynasty - but not in my direct family tree (she wasn't listed as a child, parent, sibling, etc.)? Keep in mind that I was short of courtiers, so without her I had no Spy Master.
If she is not related to you and you need a spy master it may not be interesting to marry her off, however if you need prestige, marrying her may give you a small amount of it.

Mooncusser said:
How do I predict or improve the chances of making a successful marriage overture (I failed maybe 15 times before someone took her... "U-G-L-Y, you ain't got no alibi...")?
Usually if her stats are not too bad and she is not too old, you will receive proposals for her, otherwise if you want to offer her I do not know how to improve the chance to make it other than spamming, they may refuse several times and then decide to accept.

Mooncusser said:
2) I could engage enemy armies by moving into the same province, but couldn't figure out how to conduct a siege (once the enemy army was defeated or no longer in the province). Is there a special command to commence a siege? (Keep in mind that I am playing on the Mac version.)
There is no problem playing on a Mac (I am also a mac user), you can only siege provinces belonging to someone with whom you are at war, if you fought in a province owned by a vassal of your enemy, you can not besiege it. There is no command to start a siege, it will begin after the battle is finished.

Mooncusser said:
Army upkeep costs are, obviously, giant. I disbanded whenever possible to save gold and rebuild the army, and my income was decent for Neuchatel - mainly because of my trollop wife (who started dating everything with a "Y" chromasome in sight, but also had the "Midas Touch" and so made a rediculously good Steward). Once I had solidified my independence and could revert to a peaceful economy, my "Treasury" was in the negative by about 150. At my income rate of about 4/month, that would have taken about 4 years to erase, much less go positive. Does that sound right?, or is there a better way to manage things or gain income that I don't know about?
At the beginning, gold can be a problem for small countries and being in debt is nearly unavoidable and you have to wait for some time before you can be out of debt, later you will have enough income and money to make wars and also you may have vassals. Using vassal troops you can avoid paying the army upkeep (though your vassals can become angry).

Feel free to ask questions, you may have to wait for answers but they come eventually and also play and learn from your mistakes.
 
Thanks for the answers.

Sounds like I wasn't doing anything too wrong or missing anything too big.

I will have to explore Prestige later - I haven't delved too far into that arena yet. All I figure right now is that more is better, but I haven't developed a strategy around obtaining or making use of Prestige yet.

Next time I'll just hold out and wait for offers. I was thinking that there might be a penalty for having an unmarried female dynasty member around and wanted to get her married off. Plus, I wanted to see if I could get her attached to a husband that was in line to get a title. Couldn't work that one though.

Re: the siege. I was attacking a vassal, so that was probably the case. Glad to know that sieging is automatic. I'm just worried about not knowing what the keystroke commands for various actions are - given that the game was built for the PC and some of the keys might be different (and the keystroke change undocumented) onthe Mac.

Also glad to know that my money issues weren't necessarily because of faulty management. At least I got a Forestry / Woodcutter built before the German implosion to help out a little. I noted that I actually had one of the stronger economies in my area.

Maybe my trollop wife (who also wanted me to buy her expensive gifts) was charging for her "personal expertise"? The more I think about it, the more it sounds like her "Midas Touch" might have had something to do with a different kind of touch related running a bit of a side-business out of her bedroom...

Thanks for the help.
 
I was thinking that there might be a penalty for having an unmarried female dynasty member around and wanted to get her married off.

You will have penalties for having sons without a wife, or without land.

For female dynasty members you don't get a penalty IIRC.

BUT you get prestige for marrying them.
Lots of girls (with good stats, so they attract guys) is a good way to build up prestige for counts.


Also glad to know that my money issues weren't necessarily because of faulty management. At least I got a Forestry / Woodcutter built before the German implosion to help out a little. I noted that I actually had one of the stronger economies in my area.


During early wars it is quite common to go bankrupt.

Later - when the AI counts save up money to build a middle fort for example - you can take 1000's of gold in one war.

Also, if you have the money, always build the province improvements which give +1 gold. (for example Mine) +1 gold often is better then +10%.
 
Also ... if you have a small court, consider marrying the female dynasty members to other courtiers in your court. This way you can "breed" a larger court. This is especially useful in the beginning when you have very few courtiers.

Remember that marrying off a female will make her leave your court, so if you wish to keep her for stats, then either marry her "in-house" or keep her single.
 
You will have penalties for having sons without a wife, or without land.

For female dynasty members you don't get a penalty IIRC.
Not quite. You get a monthly prestige decline for either of these:
  • your eldest son has no land
  • your second eldest son has no land
  • your eldest daughter has not married

Note that these do take bastards into account, so if your 1st son happens to be a bastard*, be prepared for an endless stream of event-generated nagging and prestige loss.

*) For some reason you only ever father male bastards
 
Also ... if you have a small court, consider marrying the female dynasty members to other courtiers in your court. This way you can "breed" a larger court. This is especially useful in the beginning when you have very few courtiers.

Remember that marrying off a female will make her leave your court, so if you wish to keep her for stats, then either marry her "in-house" or keep her single.

Yes, I have to remember this. I still have a big tendency to think of my courtiers as related / family members. While that might be the case, it isn't necessarily so - making marriages among courtiers less of a taboo than I tend to naturally think.
 
Also, if you have the money, always build the province improvements which give +1 gold. (for example Mine) +1 gold often is better then +10%.

OK - that brings up an economics question.

I have figured out how the "+10%" works. (A modifier to your base monthly province income), but I'm not sure what the "+1" gold does or how it works. I had assumed that it was mainly used in the case that someone looted your province - but I'm guessing by your comment that this isn't so. (Or maybe I'm thinking of something different still.)
 
OK - that brings up an economics question.

I have figured out how the "+10%" works. (A modifier to your base monthly province income), but I'm not sure what the "+1" gold does or how it works. I had assumed that it was mainly used in the case that someone looted your province - but I'm guessing by your comment that this isn't so. (Or maybe I'm thinking of something different still.)


Ok, base income is 4.

With a +10% modifier (from a province improvement), you will get 4,4 gold per month.
With a +1 gold modifier, you get 5 gold per month.
 
Ok, base income is 4.

With a +10% modifier (from a province improvement), you will get 4,4 gold per month.
With a +1 gold modifier, you get 5 gold per month.

I still think in some places it states that Mines, Glassworks etc. give 1 gold per year, but in fact it is 1 gold per month (so they are very useful improvements :))
 
Thanks, TempestDK and galuska. I hadn't noted the +1/month gold on any of the improvements before, but I'll look again.

I have noticed the "+1 gold; -2 piety for pillage" marker before, and was wondering how that worked - I assume that a province with that improvement would then provide that "benefit" to someone that pillaged the province.

I have seen the province screen where the province's monthly income, piety gain and prestige gain are summarized - followed underneath by the province's pillage rates for gold, piety and prestige - and have assumed that those "pillage" amounts are a sum of all of the pillaging "benefits" for the province and its associated improvements.

Additional question:

I acquired the knowledge of how to build roads last night while playing, and then started to build the road improvement. Most of the benefits are straightforward (25% speed increase - useful in Neuchatel with hills, +1 gold pillage benefit, etc.), but one of the benefits is +5% trade efficiency. I am guessing I know what "trade effeciency" basically means from my EU3 play, but I have never seen it referenced in CK:DV, so I don't know what effect this +5% is actually going to have.
 
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I acquired the knowledge of how to build roads last night while playing, and then started to build the road improvement. Most of the benefits are straightforward (25% speed increase - useful in Neuchatel with hills, +1 gold pillage benefit, etc.), but one of the benefits is +5% trade efficiency. I am guessing I know what "trade effeciency" basically means from my EU3 play, but I have never seen it referenced in CK:DV, so I don't know what effect this +5% is actually going to have.

If it reads trade-efficiency then the tooltip is somewhat misleading. It increases tolls with 5%. Tolls are one of the taxes in the game (like census tax and scutage).
 
And one more thing, there are lots and lots and a few more still of hidden modifiers for almost all buildings regarding mtth for events and tech spread and almost everything else in game
 
If it reads trade-efficiency then the tooltip is somewhat misleading. It increases tolls with 5%. Tolls are one of the taxes in the game (like census tax and scutage).

You are correct, it says tolls efficiency - which, if I am correct, is the tax related to the burgher class. I'm still too used to EUIII and must have naturally misread it as trade efficiency.

Meanmanturbo said:
And one more thing, there are lots and lots and a few more still of hidden modifiers for almost all buildings regarding mtth for events and tech spread and almost everything else in game

Yes, I figured there was lot going on behind the scenes - as with all Paradox games, I think. Thanks.