Georgia Changes for Flavour and Accuracy

Delurker · Jul 27, 2017

I’d like to make some suggestions for how to improve Georgia in the game.

First I’d like to suggest some dynamic province names:

12 Sjælland - Zelandia

41 Koenigsberg – Kenigsbergi

50 Berlin – Berlini

85 Koeln - K'elni

97 Holland - Holandia

101 Genoa - Genua

102 Nice – Nitsa

110 Trent - Trento

112 Venezia – Venetsia

113 Ferrara - Ferara

115 Pisa - Piza

116 Firenze -Florentsia

118 Roma – Romi

121 Napoli – Neapoli

134 Wien - Vena

144 Epirus – Epiri?

146 Athens – Ateni

147 Thessaly – Tesalia?

148 Macedonia - Mak'edonia

149 Edirne – Adrianopoli

150 Tarnovo – Tirnovo?

151 Constantinople - (Istanbul = Stanbuli; Constantinople = K'onst'ant'inop'oli)

153 Pest – Peshti?

163 Crete - Kreta

183 Paris – P’arizi

236 London - Londoni

257 Warszawa – Varshava

262 Krakow - Krakovi

280 Kiev - Kievi

284 Crimea – Qirimi

286 Azov – Azovi (I think)

287 Kuban – Jiketi

(N.B. Kuban should have alternative name if Circassia takes it - Pshyze)

295 Moskva – Mosk’ovi

310 Novgorod – (Didi) Novgorodi – “Didi” means “The Great”, like “Velikiy Novgorod” in Russian

317 Hüdavendigar – Bursa (or Brusa)

319 Mentese – Menteshe?

320 Rhodes – Rodosi

321 Cyprus - K'vip'rosi

327 Adana - Adana

328 Sinop – Sinopi

329 Sivas - several options – Sebastia probably best

330 Trebizond - T'rap'izoni

331 Erzurum - Karnu-Kalaki is probably the best choice

365 Sinai - Sinai

379 Jerusalem – Ierusalimi

382 Damascus - Damask'i

410 Baghdad - Baghdadi

411 Mosul – Mosuli

Edit to add: 416 Tabriz - Tavrizi

418 Diyarbakir - Diarbakiri

419 Yerevan – Erivani/Erebuni

421 Shirvan = Shirvani

424 Ardabil - Ardebili

428 Teheran - Teirani

429 Isfahan – Ispaani

442 Bukhara - Bukhara

445 Merv - Mervi

454 Samarkand - Samarqandi

462 Mingrelia – Samegrelo - Mingrelia is the Russian name, not the Georgian one. EDIT: on further reading actually Odishi is an even better choice for the name of the province than Samegrelo, which was only really used in the 19th century. Definitely not Mingrelia though.

463 Circassia – Cherkezeti

464 Astrakhan - Ast'rakhani

475 Bashkortostan - Bashk'ireti

522 Delhi – Deli

1765 Sofia – Sofia

1773 Achaea - Akaia

1816 Beijing - P'ek'ini

1855 Sidon - Sidoni

2205 Nakhchivan – Nakhichevani

2208 Terek – Tergi

2218 Shiraz - Shirazi

2306 Mush - Mushi

2307 Van – Vani

2313 Antioch - Ant'iokia

2331 Jeddah – Jida

2348 Chios - Kiosi

Other changes:

My major source for all this is Edge of Empires: a History of Georgia by Donald Rayfield, which as far as I can tell is the most comprehensive study available in English. All the events apart from the baths one are featured in that text. Many of these ideas have been suggested before on these forums but I wanted to collate and polish them a bit, as well as back them up a bit more with sources so they seem more credible to those who don’t know this region very well.

The Darial Pass

The South Caucasus should have a break in the middle for the Darial Pass. It should link Kartli to Alania. The Darial Pass was very important in the history of the region. In the period roughly 1000-1400 the fact that the pass was controlled by Georgians or their allies (the Ossetians) was crucial in stopping Georgia being invaded by the steppe peoples to the North. Later, when Russia finally decisively invaded Georgia at the end of the 1700s, they did so through the Darial Pass. The current situation is ahistorical and encourages powers in the Northern Caucasus to attack via Abkhazia, which was famously difficult and swampy terrain in real life and so was only subdued by the Russian Empire later.

Darbazi

Very minor, but if possible it would be nice to change the “Call Diet” action in the estates tabs to “Call Darbazi”, since that was the name of the roughly equivalent Georgian institution (it was basically the King’s council.) For added flavour, it could increase the influence of the clergy as well as the nobility, as the key religious figures were also invited to darbazis.

Noble influence

A small change that I don’t know how easy it would be to modify, but the common thread for Georgia in this period is a strong and disloyal nobility. It would be good to have higher noble influence as a result, to make it harder to manage that estate. I think there’s a reasonable case for making Georgia a Feudal Monarchy rather than a Despotic Monarchy.

Events:

Currently, Georgia has no events of its own at all. I am aware that it's a bit difficult to create events for Georgia because it spent most of the period hopelessly split, with the West under the thumb of the Ottomans and the East the Persians. For this reason I've gone for cultural achievements because 1) they're not railroady and 2) they are not dependent on the overall geopolitical situation to the same extent. Here are my suggestions. I'm flexible on the effects they have - the aim is to provide flavour for a tag that has no flavour of its own beyond being Orthodox at the moment, not to turn Georgia into some kind of superpower.

Zaza Panaskerteli-Tsitsishvili’s Karabadini

Conditions:

Year = 1486 or so

http://www.medgeo.net/2009/12/25/სამკურნალო-წიგნი-კარაბად/ (kinda has picture – but could just use generic manuscript pic)

(In 1486) Eristavi Zaza Panaskerteli-Tsitsishvili wrote and compiled an important collection of Georgian medical knowledge. Drawing on Galenic and Sumerian ideas, as well as local remedies, the two volumes of the Karabadini describe methods of identifying diseases and how to examine patients. The Karabadini examines both physical and mental illnesses. Mental illnesses are said to be a product of physical issues in the brain, and therefore they require medication, not magic rituals. In Panaskerteli-Tsitsishvili’s opinion, it is necessary to heal the patient using accurate knowledge based on rational methods of treatment.

Our people shall benefit greatly from this work!

Effects:

+10% population growth (same as Medical Evolution event) for 500 days or whatever (maybe lower but for longer?)

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Sayat-Nova

Sayat-Nova was a renowned ashugh (troubadour) singer in the 18th century. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayat-Nova). He was ethnically Armenian but came from Tbilisi and King Erekle II of Georgia patronised him.

The event should fire from 1740 to 1765

"A wandering ashugh who calls himself Sayat-Nova has come to our court singing songs of love and merriment in all the languages of the South Caucasus. Shall we patronise him?"

YES > pay x money, gain prestige

NO > lose prestige

Note: Since Sayat-Nova was ethnically Armenian, it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that if an Armenian state had existed at the time he would have tried to gain patronage there, especially after being banished from Erekle II's court. Therefore I propose this event be assigned to Armenia as well. These days he seems to be more famous in Armenian circles than Georgian ones anyway, thanks to being in The Colour of Pomegranates.

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Year is at least 1675. Year is before 1715

Sulkhan-Saba Orbeliani

Sulkhan-Saba Orbeliani (1658-1725) was a Georgian polymath. He wrote Georgia's first dictionary, wrote a classic of Georgian literature called A Book of Wisdom and Lies when he was only in his 20s, and later was sent as a diplomat to France to try to create an alliance with Louis XIV (Louis died and it came to nothing.) He was also a Catholic monk for a while. Interesting guy. I want to leave the diplomatic stuff out of the blurb because it feels a bit railroady.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulkhan-Saba_Orbeliani

"Sulkhan-Saba Orbeliani (1658-1725) was a Georgian polymath. He wrote A Book of Wisdom and Lies (Tsigni Sibrdzne Sitsruisa), a classic of Georgian literature that uses fables to explore human folly and how to live a more moral life. He also wrote the first Georgian dictionary and was instrumental in the development of printing and literacy in the country."

We are fortunate to have such a talent in our realm.

Effects:

Gain 50 Admin

Gain 10 prestige

(I'd be tempted to have something about increasing institution spread speed here.)

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This event is not *quite* historical. Due to Eastern Georgia's subjugation to the Persians, there was rather little development of urban and social infrastructure there until Vakhtang VI. However, in the game Georgia would almost inevitably have to be independent or they wouldn't be being played, so I think there's a case to be made that they would have invested in this area if they'd had the wherewithal. And there is historical evidence that the baths were being used more by common people in the 17th century. And the oldest still existing bathhouse is from 1726, so well within the timeframe. (http://www.eurasianet.org/node/64912)

Year is at least 1650.

Develop the Tbilisi Baths

We Georgians have been bathing in public baths since the days of the Roman Empire. Indeed our capital Tbilisi was built on hot springs by Vakhtang Gorgasali in the 5th century CE. Since then, we have enjoyed the warm sulphurous waters there. Now, under the cultural influence of the Islamic Empires to our south, the common people and our soldiers have become ever more keen to wash their cares away. We should build more bathhouses to satisfy public demand and show our munificence.

Yes, let us provide for our people in this way.

Pay x money, gain 10 prestige.

No, our people have no need of such amusements.

Lose 5 prestige.

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Growth of Armenian Diaspora

Triggers: Armenia does not exist

Year is at least 1600

“Our fellow Christians the Armenians have begun settling in our fair land. They are bringing prosperity to our capital, but some of our people are uneasy at the presence of so many foreigners in our midst.”

Let them stay!

+2 base tax, +1 unrest in Kartli

We have no need of these interlopers!

Lose 5 prestige?

Context: there were a lot of Armenians in Tbilisi and they actually formed the vast majority of the population in the 19th century.

Finally, I’d like to discuss Georgia’s National Ideas.

Georgia’s current National Ideas:

Traditions:

Traditions:

+50% Hostile core-creation cost on us

−10% Shock damage received

Chance of new heir.png Bagrationi Dynasty

+50% Chance of new heir

Improve relations.png Georgian Isolation

+30% Improve relations

Construction cost.png Restoration of Fortresses and Churches

−10% Construction cost

Income from vassals.png Georgian Protectorates

+20% Income from vassals

Stability cost modifier.png Samouravo Counties

−10% Stability cost modifier

Manpower recovery speed.png Sadrosho Districts

+20% Manpower recovery speed

Diplomatic reputation.png Georgian Embassies

+1 Diplomatic reputation

Idea bonus.png Ambition:

−20% Infantry cost

My comments:

There are a couple of these that stick out as being unfitting. First is Georgian Protectorates. Simply put, during the time period of the game, Georgia basically never had any vassals so I have no idea why this is part of the National Ideas. The Georgia of the Golden Age had some vassal states e.g. Ganja for brief periods, the Ossetians/Alans were kind of vassals for a bit in the same time period, and there was the historic relationship to Trebizond. But Trebizond is the only one of these which might be applicable in game terms from 1444 onwards and they only existed until 1461! The constituent parts of Georgia were vassals of other powers (the Ottomans and the Persians) but that does not make this idea make any more sense. I note that I’m not the only person on these forums to have made this point (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...erhaul-suggestion.979905/page-3#post-22755127).

The other one of these that I’m not keen on is Samouravo Counties. Although these were indeed created by Giorgi VIII/I of Kakhetia in the late 1400s, 1) that was only in part of the territory of Georgia and more importantly 2) Georgia afterwards, particularly in the West, was an absolute nest of snakes basically until King Vakhtang VI or so, so reducing stability cost really doesn’t fit the times. (Referring to a slightly more restricted period, Rayfield says “The story of western Georgia between the death of King Alexandre [i.e. 1660] and the accession of King Solomon I [i.e. 1752] is a confusing vortex of internecine war, depositions and restorations, abduction, adultery, mutilation, murder and treachery. The only consolation for the student of Imeretian-Gurian-Mingrelian history is that it was even more terrible to endure in reality than to read about in retrospect.”) Plus to be honest -10% stability cost modifier is pretty boring and limited.

Instead I would like to suggest some alternatives that seem much more suitable. The first of these is an idea for reduced war exhaustion. Again, this is not an original idea on these forums http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...erhaul-suggestion.979905/page-3#post-22755127). One of the key threads of Georgian history in this period is that they just kept fighting and resisting (particularly the Muslim empires – not Russia quite so much), even though they usually lost in the end. King Teimuraz I spent 50 years resisting the Persians in the first half of the 1600s, losing and regaining his throne repeatedly in the process. Later, the 300 Aragvians would become famous for their last stand (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Hundred_Aragvians). When Georgians weren’t fighting the empires that had vassalised them they were fighting one another. The principalities of Western Georgia in particular fought each other over and over again in this period.

Resistance to Foreign Domination

“In spite of our small size compared to the mighty empires around us, we defend our land against all-comers. Our tenacity in the face of adversity has kept the idea of Georgia alive even through our darkest hours as a nation.”

-0.02 monthly war exhaustion

(If anyone can come up with a better name for this idea I’m all ears. I would call it Legacy of the 300 Aragvians but since they come up at the end of the period rather than the beginning it would seem a bit odd.)

The second is something relating to Georgia’s Orthodox faith. Georgia was a very early adopter of Christianity (they tend to say the second after Armenia but I understand there’s a bit of dispute about that) and Orthodoxy has remained a central part of Georgian identity since the 300s. Indeed, in the tenth century, Giorgi Merchule defined Georgia as anywhere where Mass was said in Georgian. Also, unlike say the Russians, who had a variety of sects split off from the main church, as far as I know this never really happened in Georgia. Moreover, their Orthodoxy was crucial to their foreign policy in this period. They kept trying to draw closer to Russia because Russia, unlike the Ottomans and the Persians, was an Orthodox power. Even when some of the rulers of Kakheti, Kartli and Imereti converted to Islam, this was always under strong pressure from the imperial power and usually just for show. Samtskhe was a bit of an exception admittedly, and became rather Muslim under the Ottomans.

So my suggestion for this would be:

St Nino’s Cross

“In the 4th century, St Nino cured Queen Nana of Iberia of a mortal illness. As a result, her husband, King Mirian, made Christianity our state religion. Since that time, we Georgians have tightly held on to our Christian faith. As one of the first Christian nations, it is crucial for us to maintain our faith against all others. May we one day once again have the strength to aid our brethren in Jerusalem!”

Tolerance of the True Faith +2

OR

Something that increases the new Patriarch Authority from Third Rome.

(Note: once again, this is not an original idea: (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...e-of-new-effects.1031640/page-2#post-23034910))

Note: St Nino was the one who converted Georgia to Christianity. Her cross, made of vine branches, is a symbol of Georgian Christianity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapevine_cross). The Georgians set up a monastery in Jerusalem long before 1444 but had increasingly little power to protect their clergy and so on, hence the last line.

I would suggest making this an early idea, possibly even a tradition, but certainly one of the first 2 ideas.

There are four other elements of Georgian history that I think would be particularly appropriate for National Ideas, but I haven’t totally fleshed them out yet. Those are the history as being possibly the birthplace of wine; Vakhtang VI’s code the dasturlamali (a late idea which would reduce unrest in some way) and relatedly the institution of serfdom, or patronqmoba, which was extremely persistent and created a society of nobles and peasants; and something relating to fort maintenance (there are castles all over Georgia, and in particular Svaneti deserves a mention as a place where every single family had their own defensive tower https://www.georgianjournal.ge/pictures/image2/5498601486b096ab6031b59ef9f73764.jpg.) As for which ideas would be eliminated, I know many people find Hostile Core Creation Cost boring, although I understand the gameplay reasons for why that might be necessary. Controversially, since it seems like a bit of a nerf, I’d be tempted to get rid of one of the two diplomatic ideas. Georgia absolutely did send out emissaries throughout the period, but they were notably unsuccessful in gaining support from larger powers, whether they be the Pope, France, or indeed Russia under Peter the Great, who promised support and didn’t show up in 1722. The one exception is the Traktat they signed with Russia under Catherine the Great, which the Russians promptly broke and led to them being annexed. I’m also not particularly keen on the Ambition being reduced infantry cost but I don’t have a strong idea of what to replace it with.

There are obviously lots of more fundamental changes that could be made to Georgia too (a complicated event chain to simulate its breakup in the late 1400s, the introduction of Ossetian and Abkhaz cultures to the game, and so on) but this is long enough already. Thank you if you’ve read to the end. I don’t speak Georgian sadly (although I do speak some Russian) so I’m sure I’ve made plenty of mistakes - please pick me up on them.
I'd like to credit the participants on these threads: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/rome-by-the-euxine.980305/ https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ion-comprehensive-overhaul-suggestion.979905/ as being particularly helpful.

Machabeli · Aug 24, 2017

AirikrStrife said:
Not to start a nationalistic debatte but rather writing due to curiousity, but what are your sources on that? The ones I looked at are usually uncertain at the actual point of ossetian migration south of the mountains. Also the issue of the identity of dvaletians makes things more complicated.
Possibly Dvaleti could have been a province covering parts of northern georgia, the darial gorge and a fringe of the Alania province

@Delurker can agree with most of your frustration. At first I was just so happy to see Georgia finally getting a revamp, and a lot of good stuff to, but it definitly could have been better. Wine should definitly have been the trade goods of Kakheti. Your best call in making a change like that (which might be possible even at this stage) is to make a post about that one issue.

There are a lot of sources for Ossetian migration in In the 17th century for example travel diaries of Johann Anton Güldenstädt who visited Georgia in 1772 contain information about Ossetian presence in Georgia.

AirikrStrife · Aug 24, 2017

Machabeli said:
There are a lot of sources for Ossetian migration in In the 17th century for example travel diaries of Johann Anton Güldenstädt who visited Georgia in 1772 contain information about Ossetian presence in Georgia.

Yes I don't believe Ossetians migrated south later than the 17th century, but I also seen (secondary) sources giving much earlier dates, perhaps as early as 15th century.

Machabeli · Aug 24, 2017

AirikrStrife said:
Yes I don't believe Ossetians migrated south later than the 17th century, but I also seen (secondary) sources giving much earlier dates, perhaps as early as 15th century.

As early as 15th century? hmm there Could've been some Ossetians living in Dvaleti at that time period but i doubt it would've been Significant enough to add to the Game.

Kiyant · Aug 24, 2017

It would be nice if Samtskhe has unique ideas because the Georgian ideas dont really make sense for them.

Machabeli · Aug 24, 2017

Kiyant said:
It would be nice if Samtskhe has unique ideas because the Georgian ideas dont really make sense for them.

Yes that would be nice but to be honest Georgian ideas are really really bad.

Delurker · Aug 31, 2017

I wrote up the events for Giorgi Saakadze:

Giorgi Saakadze

Georgian and Kartlian event

Triggers: year is at least 1600. Year is before 1610.

A man of enormous military promise named Giorgi Saakadze has come to our attention. He is relatively low-born, but his father served us loyally in his time. He is extremely skilled and very ambitious. He is currently the mouravi (bailiff) of Tbilisi, Tskhinvali and Dvaleti. Our nobles will not appreciate elevating a man of his background to prominence. What should we do with him?

Make him a general in our army (A)

>Gain a skill 5/5/5/0 general

Nobles lose 10 loyalty

Lose 10 legitimacy

Have him advise us on military matters (B)

>Gain a level 3 Army Organiser military advisor (Giorgi Saakadze) at half price (aged 40)

Nobles lose 10 loyalty

Lose 10 legitimacy

We have no need of this commoner! (C)

Gain 10 legitimacy

Georgian and Kartlian event

>if (A) or (B). Giorgi Saakadze must exist as either a General or a Military Advisor (i.e. he can’t have died.)

Year is at least 1610. Year is before 1626. Mean time to fire = 192 months (16 years i.e. 50% chance of occurring – if this isn’t how the calculation is done please correct me on this.)

My King, our nobles’ fears were well-founded – Giorgi Saakadze cannot be trusted. He is too ambitious and has decided to seize the throne for himself!

We must destroy this treasonous parvenu!

>General Giorgi Saakadze disappears; advisor Giorgi Saakadze disappears

>12 stack of pretender rebels led by Giorgi Saakadze appears in Tbilisi (EDITED). Giorgi Saakadze is 3/3/6 with trait "Inspiring Leader".

Notes: I have to say I’m not quite sure how exactly the timed events work, so I hope the gist of what I’m aiming at is clear. In terms of Saakadze’s stats, he won battles both with guns and using cavalry at least (hence the high values for both fire and shock). The manoeuvre is because he did a bit of guerrilla warfare too, although that may be a little high – I’m interested in people’s opinions on the stats- I'm not wedded to them. He wasn’t notably good at sieges so I didn’t give him a siege pip. As for the type of Military Advisor he was, it’s a bit tricky to choose – he was just a really smart solid general as far as I know, rather than a massive reformer. In some ways Commandant might be the most appropriate with its +5% discipline but the picture for that is of an Admiral so I went with Army Organiser. In an ideal world, the second event would also fire immediately if you chose to fire him as an advisor or a general, but I don't know if that's possible within the game engine.

Edit: picture for both events should clearly be this one: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Giorgi_Saakadze_(1626).jpg
I believe it's public domain.

Machabeli · Aug 31, 2017

Delurker said:
I wrote up the events for Giorgi Saakadze:

Giorgi Saakadze

Georgian and Kartlian event

Triggers: year is at least 1600. Year is before 1610.

A man of enormous military promise named Giorgi Saakadze has come to our attention. He is relatively low-born, but his father served us loyally in his time. He is extremely skilled and very ambitious. He is currently the mouravi (bailiff) of Tbilisi, Tskhinvali and Dvaleti. Our nobles will not appreciate elevating a man of his background to prominence. What should we do with him?

Make him a general in our army (A)

>Gain a skill 5/5/5/0 general

Nobles lose 10 loyalty

Lose 10 legitimacy

Have him advise us on military matters (B)

>Gain a level 3 Army Organiser military advisor (Giorgi Saakadze) at half price (aged 40)

Nobles lose 10 loyalty

Lose 10 legitimacy

We have no need of this commoner! (C)

Gain 10 legitimacy

Georgian and Kartlian event

>if (A) or (B). Giorgi Saakadze must exist as either a General or a Military Advisor (i.e. he can’t have died.)

Year is at least 1610. Year is before 1626. Mean time to fire = 192 months (16 years i.e. 50% chance of occurring – if this isn’t how the calculation is done please correct me on this.)

My King, our nobles’ fears were well-founded – Giorgi Saakadze cannot be trusted. He is too ambitious and has decided to seize the throne for himself!

We must destroy this treasonous parvenu!

>General Giorgi Saakadze disappears; advisor Giorgi Saakadze disappears

>12 stack of pretender rebels led by Giorgi Saakadze appears in Kartli. Giorgi Saakadze is 3/3/6 with trait "Inspiring Leader".

Notes: I have to say I’m not quite sure how exactly the timed events work, so I hope the gist of what I’m aiming at is clear. In terms of Saakadze’s stats, he won battles both with guns and using cavalry at least (hence the high values for both fire and shock). The manoeuvre is because he did a bit of guerrilla warfare too, although that may be a little high – I’m interested in people’s opinions on the stats- I'm not wedded to them. He wasn’t notably good at sieges so I didn’t give him a siege pip. As for the type of Military Advisor he was, it’s a bit tricky to choose – he was just a really smart solid general as far as I know, rather than a massive reformer. In some ways Commandant might be the most appropriate with its +5% discipline but the picture for that is of an Admiral so I went with Army Organiser. In an ideal world, the second event would also fire immediately if you chose to fire him as an advisor or a general, but I don't know if that's possible within the game engine.

My God... this is amazing! good job man you sure did your Research.(paradox should hire you)

Delurker · Aug 31, 2017

Machabeli said:
My God... this is amazing! good job man you sure did your Research.(paradox should hire you)

Thanks, that's very kind! Do you have any thoughts for events between 1444 and 1600? I'm really struggling to come up with any, which is annoying as that's arguably the most important time to have them. So far I've only got the Karabadini. Was vaguely thinking of adding something about Levan II Dadiani but he's not in that time period either.

Machabeli · Aug 31, 2017

Delurker said:
Thanks, that's very kind! Do you have any thoughts for events between 1444 and 1600? I'm really struggling to come up with any, which is annoying as that's arguably the most important time to have them. So far I've only got the Karabadini. Was vaguely thinking of adding something about Levan II Dadiani but he's not in that time period either.

Hmm there could be some events about the lezgin raids into Georgia which started right after the Dissolution of united Georgia, the raids were Primarily for stealing and plundering but it Could've ranged from few dozen bandists who were after gold and people to Dagestani warlords who came with an army of a thousand men strong, and that's why it was so Dangerous it was simply Unpredictable, in Georgia the raids Carried out by the Lezgins were know as the Lekianoba.(Leki meaning lezgin)

Delurker · Aug 31, 2017

Machabeli said:
Hmm there could be some events about the lezgin raids into Georgia which started right after the Dissolution of united Georgia, the raids were Primarily for stealing and plundering but it Could've ranged from few dozen bandists who were after gold and people to Dagestani warlords who came with an army of a thousand men strong, and that's why it was so Dangerous it was simply Unpredictable, in Georgia the raids Carried out by the Lezgins were know as the Lekianoba.(Leki meaning lezgin)

That's certainly a thought - I'd have to have a think about how to translate that into game terms though. Maybe Paradox should let Gazikumukh raid like the hordes do...

Machabeli · Aug 31, 2017

Delurker said:
That's certainly a thought - I'd have to have a think about how to translate that into game terms though. Maybe Paradox should let Gazikumukh raid like the hordes do...

Yes raiding could work or even better it could actually replace the cossack aggression event entirely.

Delurker · Sep 9, 2017

Warning: this post is pretty long.

I figured if I was going to go down the road of giving Georgia some flavour, might as well go the whole hog. I’ve written these events more or less in chronological order. I started looking a bit at the modding pages of the eu4 wiki while writing these up so there are little bits of code in them but I’m still very much a learner in this area so I wrote nearly everything out in conventional script. Please ask if anything I’ve written isn’t clear. My source for most of this is Edge of Empires again, but there are other bits and bobs I’ve used – for example the Geoffroy de Thoisy event chain came from Wikipedia and the sources cited on his page. I’m going to collate all the events and other suggestions together and add them to the original post for ease of use. By the way, I’ve chosen which tags would have the events fairly carefully, so if I haven’t said “Georgia event” then assume it would not fire if you form Georgia etc. Although this all seems like a lot, bear in mind I'm suggesting stuff for what should be 4 or 5 tags (Kartli, Kakheti, Imereti, Samtskhe and Georgia.)

1)
Geoffroy de Thoisy event chain

Province event for Guria. Fires 1445. (note: if Imereti etc. cannot already see Burgundy on the map, maybe it should be able to after this event?)

Geoffroy de Thoisy

“A Burgundian knight, Geoffroy de Thoisy, who travelled East to crusade against the Ottomans, has decided to direct his religious zeal not only against infidel Muslims but also those of us of Orthodox faith. A naval commander, he has directed his flotilla to engage in piracy against us. Our friends in Trebizond have warned us of his arrival. What shall we do?”

A) Set up an ambush!

>Spend 10 Mil

> +10 relations with Trebizond

>Go to If A next event in chain

B) We do not concern ourselves with fools like this!

>nothing

>Go to If B next event in chain

1 month passes.

If A) Capture of Geoffroy de Thoisy

“Our forces have ambushed the rogue “crusader” Geoffroy de Thoisy and captured him in Batumi. What shall we do with him?”

Let us ransom him to the Burgundians.

>Burgundy pays 25 ducats to Imereti.

>Let us be magnanimous and exile him without seeking payment from his countrymen.

> +35 relations with Burgundy

>This wretch is a mere pirate. Execute him to set an example!

> Burgundy -20 relations with Imereti, Papal State -10 relations with Imereti. -1 unrest in Guria for 5 years. Burghers +10 loyalty.

Geoffroy de Thoisy raids Batumi

If B) “As our allies in Trebizond warned us, the crusader turned pirate Geoffroy de Thoisy has come to our shores and plundered whatever he could. Our fair city of Batumi in Guria was the one to suffer this time.”

That is displeasing.

> Guria gets “Raided Coast” modifier as if raided by Barbary pirates. Relations modifier affects Burgundy i.e. Imereti -25 relations with Burgundy. Burghers -10 loyalty. Guria +1 unrest for 5 years. Devastation +2?

2)

Creation of a separate western church

Imereti event. Date = 1470 or later. MTTH = 10 years.

“Though once we were united with our fellow Georgians to the East, reunion now looks a distant prospect indeed. Perhaps we should solidify this split and show our independence by declaring a separate church in Western Georgia that does not answer to the Catholicos-Patriarch of Mtskheta in Kartli.”

A) Yes, let us become fully independent in matters of church as well as state.

>-75 relations with Kartli, Kakheti (if in game).

>Gain 75% patriarch authority (or some very large number).

>Orthodox religious rebels rise up (small - say 3 stack - in Imereti.)

B) No, we still hold out hope of reunion – let us remain under the Catholicos-Patriarch of Mtskheta.

>+10 relations with Kartli, Kakheti

>lose 10% patriarch authority

(EDIT TO ADD: If you choose A), Kartli and Kakheti should both get the message:
"Our brethren in Imereti have decided to consecrate their own Catholicos-Patriarch and no longer answer to the rightful head of the Church in Mtskheta."

We are disappointed in their turn to sectarianism.

>-75 relations with Imereti
>-75% Patriarch Authority (i.e. same large number as Imereti gains.)

If A) >Reunite the eastern and western churches of Georgia

Triggers: one of the Georgian tags owns Imereti, Abkhazia, Kartli, Tbilisi provinces. That tag is Orthodox.

“We have laboured under the division of our Eastern and Western churches long enough. Should we not reunite them?”

Yes, it is long past time.

>Pay 20 admin, 20 diplo

>Gain +1 tolerance of the true faith

>Gain 30 Patriarch Authority

No, there is no need to do so.

>Lose 10 Patriarch Authority

Note: I realise that this is a bit of a weird one in-game as Imereti would already have a separate church in terms of the game mechanics but it was fairly significant as an event in the breakup of Georgia historically and isn’t directly rendered in-game at the moment.

3)

Lekianoba event chain

Kartli and Kakheti event. NOT Georgia event.

Triggers:

Year is after 1470. Year is before 1600.

Mean time to happen: 120 months. Happens repeatedly.

The Lekianoba

“Sensing our weakness, the mountain peoples of the North Caucasus have begun raiding our lands. They are adept at looting us and then retreating to the mountains before we can defend ourselves. Though they come from a variety of ethnic groups, we have come to know them as the Leks, and these raids as the Lekianoba. Our people demand that we deal with these raiders.”

Immediate effects:

>One province neighbouring Gazikumukh receives 10 devastation.

We must fight back against these barbarous thieves!

>Gain border friction CB against neighbouring province in Gazikumukh for 120 months. -100 relations with Gazikumukh.

We do not have the strength to fight against these brigands.

>Burghers lose 10 loyalty

>Nobility lose 10 loyalty

>Lose 15 prestige

Intensification of the Lekianoba

Mean time to happen: 60 months. Happens repeatedly.

Triggers: Year is after 1600.

Event “Beginning of the Lekianoba” has fired.

“The mountain peoples of the North Caucasus have become emboldened by our continued weakness, and have increased the frequency and severity of their raids. While once their raiding parties might only be a few hundred, now they send thousands of their people over the mountains to loot our fair land.”

Immediate effects:

>One province neighbouring Gazikumukh receives 20 devastation.

We must fight back against these barbarous thieves!

>Gain border friction CB against neighbouring province in Gazikumukh for 120 months. -100 relations with Gazikumukh.

We do not have the strength to fight against these brigands.

>Burghers lose 15 loyalty

>Nobility lose 15 loyalty

>Lose 30 prestige

End of the Lekianoba

Triggers:

Has previously had event “Beginning of the Lekianoba”.

Owns provinces Kartli, Tbilisi, Kakheti, Imereti, Odishi, Lomsia (or whatever counts as having formed Georgia in the new patch.)
AND/OR
Owns: Lakia (and Khundzia).

Only fires once.

“The Leks in the mountains now quake in fear when they hear our name. Our land is strong enough at last to convince them that it is no longer in their interest to raid us.”

That is good to hear.

>”The Lekianoba” and “Intensification of the Lekianoba” no longer fire.

Notes: there are some issues with the Lekianoba event chain that I haven’t quite figured out. First, the new Caucasus mountain range blocks direct access between Gazikumukh (the so-called Leks) and Georgia, so I’m not quite sure how that can play out. Maybe make a pass? Historically it wasn’t quite like that but to simulate it accurately you’d need to have transhumant pastoralists and variable province borders, neither of which is likely to be on the cards, so that might be the next best thing. I think AirikrStrife already suggested this but I’d like to second it. Second, both Avaria and Gazikumukh raided Georgia, but for simplicity I just made it Gazikumukh – I wasn’t sure the event would work with more than one tag – if it would, for all Gazikumukh, add “or Avaria”. I modelled this chain vaguely on the Cossack Aggression event chain but to the best of my knowledge the raiding wasn’t done by an estate – it was done by anyone and everyone with the connivance of, and sometimes organised by, the leaders of Gazikumukh and Avaria, so I’m not sure what message(s) Gazikumukh should get about all this. Any suggestions very much appreciated.

4)

Imereti and Samtskhe event – Note: NOT Georgian event

Enslavement by the Ottomans

Triggers:

Ottomans own Lomsia, Tao, Imereti, Guria, Odishi or Abkhazia.

Year is at least 1510.

Fires on average every twenty years (240 months) (I don’t quite know how to do MTTH).

“The Ottomans and their allies are abducting our people in $Province and selling them into slavery across Anatolia and the Middle East. Our people and our clergy demand that we do something.”

Immediate effects:

+5 devastation in an Imeretian/Samtskhe (whichever tag is getting the event) province neighbouring the Ottomans

+2 unrest in the same province

+25 relations with Mamluks

We must denounce this evil practice!

-1 unrest in that province

-50 relations with Ottomans

Gain Diplomatic Insult (?) CB against Ottomans for 120 months.

We do not have the strength to stand up to them.

Lose 15 prestige.

(I figure that the only way to end this would have been to form a united Georgia so this event won’t go on forever regardless – either Imereti and Samtskhe will form Georgia or they’ll be conquered. The +25 relations with the Mamluks is because some of them wound up becoming important in the Mamluk hierarchy and maintained contact with their homeland- I can provide sources if required.)

EDIT: Picture could be this one: https://georgiaphotophiles.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/castelli-chained-mingrelian.jpg (I believe it's public domain.)

5)

Imereti event

Year is after 1540. Year is before 1555.

Levan I Dadiani

The upstart Eristavi (Duke) of Odishi claims we have slighted him by denying him the spoils of our previous campaigns. He now refuses to supply us with troops and has proclaimed himself Mtavari (Principal) meaning that he no longer answers to any Earthly sovereign.

We must bring this rebellious Duke to heel.

Odishi (Mingrelia) gains 50% autonomy.

10 stack of noble (or should it be particularist?) rebels appear in Odishi (Mingrelia).

General is Levan I Dadiani 3/2/3/0

Can use pictures etc. from here: http://dadiani.si.edu/levani.html

Note: As Odishi isn’t a separate tag, I’ve simplified the historical situation a lot here. I’m happy to add more detail if people think it’s worth it.

6)

Imereti (and Georgia?) event.

Year is after 1620. Year is before 1645.

Levan II Dadiani

“The Mtavari (Principal) of Odishi is a smart and calculating man named Levan II Dadiani. He has built up a considerable power base in his fiefdom. He has no scruples whatsoever. When his wife was allegedly found to have committed adultery with a courtier, he cut off her nose and cut out her tongue before sending her back to her father, the Duke of Abkhazia. He later had her lover killed and his body parts fired from a cannon. This alleged adultery was conveniently timed, as Levan lusted after his uncle’s wife. Now free to pursue her, he abducted and married her despite his uncle’s protests. Though he is extremely cruel, his governing skills have strengthened Odishi to the point that he now believes he is able to seize the throne for himself.”

We must meet this traitor on the field of battle.

12 stack of pretender rebels appear in Odishi (Mingrelia).

Odishi gains +50% autonomy.

Levan II Dadiani is 3/2/3/0 general

His ruler stats are 5/1/4 with Cruel, Malevolent, Entrepeneur as traits (if only one, Cruel). If Levan succeeds as pretender, capital moves to Odishi. (capital movement isn’t crucial but it’d be a nice touch.)

Note: Can use pictures from here: http://dadiani.si.edu/levanii.html

Note: Since there isn’t an independent principality of Odishi in the game, I had to simplify Levan II Dadiani’s career somewhat. He was quite a cunning diplomat but also alienated a *lot* of people because he was such a bastard (he survived at least one assassination attempt), so I only gave him 1 for that.

7)

Mariam Dadiani

Kartli and Georgian event

Year is after 1638. Year is before 1650.

Ruler of Kartli/Georgia must be male.

Ruler of Kartli/Georgia cannot have a consort already.

Ruler of Imereti IS NOT Levan II Dadiani

A potential bride has become available. Mariam Dadiani was the wife of Simon I Gurieli, the Prince of Guria, but he has now been blinded and deposed by his brother-in-law Levan II Dadiani of Odishi. Levan II Dadiani is keen on marrying her to us and cementing an alliance. She is a smart, capable administrator, and would be a useful partner in managing the kingdom. However, such a marriage will incur the enmity of the Kingdom of Imereti, as their ruler despises the rebellious Levan. What should we do?

A) Let us be bethrothed.

+100 Admin

Gain Consort “Mariam Dadiani”. Her stats are 5/3/1.

-100 relations with Imereti

B) Let us find a more suitable match.

If Kartli/Georgia owns Odishi, Odishi gains +1 unrest. Otherwise, nothing happens.

Picture can be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariam_Dadiani#/media/File:Mariam_dadiani.jpg

Note: I chose to give a flat 100 Admin instead of a ticking positive admin score per year for simplicity.

8)

Event chain: Queen Ketevan

(Kakheti – if in game) and Georgian event.

Fires only once

Triggers:

Georgia (Kakheti)

is_in_war = {

attacker_leader = Persia

start date = >1600<1700

}

war_score_against = {
who = Persia
value = 5
}
(i.e. Persia has at least +5 war score or equivalent low positive number if that doesn’t work for some reason, Persia is the aggresssor, and the year is from 1600-1700.)

Use Queen Ketevan as a diplomat

“We are struggling in this war. Perhaps we should send the Queen Mother, Ketevan, to negotiate with the Persians. She may be able to mollify them.”

Yes, her honest Christianity and good heart may reduce their bloodlust.

>If Persian ruler has trait Kind-hearted, go to “Queen Ketevan’s Successful Diplomacy” in 3 months.

Otherwise go to “The Martyrdom of Queen Ketevan” (after 60 months i.e. 5 years – note, this could be made much quicker for the sake of gameplay.)

No, let us keep her out of harm’s way.

>Nothing happens. –note: the AI should never take this option – it’s just there to avoid accidentally screwing the player.

Queen Ketevan’s Successful Diplomacy

“The Shah of Persia has heard the entreaties of our Queen Mother, Ketevan, and has decided to spare us future depredations.”

>Thanks be to God!

> white_peace between Persia and Georgia. set_ai_attitude of Persia to Georgia as Friendly until death of Persian ruler.

The Martyrdom of Queen Ketevan

“Appalling news! The Queen Mother, Ketevan, who we sent on embassy to the Persians, has been murdered by the Shah. She was offered the choice of converting to Islam and becoming a member of his harem, or continuing to profess her Christian faith. She refused to abandon her religious beliefs, so the Shah had her horribly tortured and executed,”

We shall tell tales of her martyrdom for as long as there is a Georgian nation.

>+50 Patriarch Authority

>+0.5 Patriarch Authority per year until the end of the game

>-150 relations with Persia

Note: Use image from here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:წმ._ქეთევან_დედოფლის_წამების_სცენა_–_The_scene_of_martyrdom_of_St._Queen_Ketevan.JPG

9)

Vakhtang VI’s Dasturlamali

Kartli and Georgia event

Year is after 1690. Year is before 1760. Ruler has at least 4 for Admin skill.

King Vakhtang VI was a great rationaliser and reformer. One of his major reforms was a new law code, the dasturlamali. The dasturlamali drew on Armenian, Jewish and Greek precedents and set specific and uniform punishments for crimes throughout the land. Punishment was based on blood price and structured according to a strict hierarchy: while killing a senior prince would require the payment of 1536 tumans, killing a mere peasant only required the payment of 12 tumans. Nevertheless, peasants gained from the legislation too, and serfdom became a little less oppressive.

He shall be known as Vakhtang the Law-Giver.

>-1 unrest in all provinces (until death of monarch?)

Note: I'm not totally keen on this event because it doesn't depend on Vakhtang VI actually being on the throne - I could never really get my head around those sorts of events. Still, seemed like I should write it up at least.

10) – this should trigger after first Sulkhan-Saba Orbeliani event

Sulkhan-Saba Orbeliani reveals his conversion to Catholicism

Year is after 1700. Year is before 1710.

“Our loyal advisor Sulkhan-Saba Orbeliani has made public his conversion to Catholicism. The clergy are displeased at his turn to heresy and believe someone with his beliefs should not have so much influence over the ruling of our country.”

A) Ignore the clergy – he is a good minister.

>Clergy lose 15 loyalty

>Clergy lose 10 influence

>lose 10% patriarch authority

>+1 tolerance of heretics until death of ruler

B) The priests are right – we cannot have a heretic in charge of state affairs.

>remove_advisor Sulkhan-Saba Orbeliani

>Clergy gain 10 loyalty

>Clergy gain 15 influence

>Gain 10% patriarch authority

>-1 tolerance of heretics until death of ruler

C) Actually, he’s right – the realm should convert to the true faith of Catholicism.

>Georgia changes religion to Catholicism

>Capital province changes religion to Catholicism

(hopefully destroyed religious unity will produce the required rebellion – can certainly add plenty of things here. This should be *extremely* tumultuous.)

>Nobles lose 50 loyalty

>-5 Stability

>Gain 50(?) Papal Influence

>+200 relations with Papal State

(I’d add reduced clergy loyalty etc but I’m not quite sure that makes sense – would they still be the old Orthodox Clergy in game at that point or the new Catholic Clergy?)

Important Note: C) is a bit of a whim on my part – it doesn’t have to be one of the choices. If ever Georgia was going to convert to Catholicism though, this would have been the time. Also if C) seems too “out there” as a choice the AI could be disabled from taking it potentially.

11)

Anton I

Kartli (Kakheti) and Georgia event. Kartli (Kakheti)/Georgia is Orthodox.

Year is 1755-1780

“Our Catholicos-Patriarch Anton I has taken great interest in increasing the level of education in our nation. He has set up schools, founded seminaries in Tbilisi and Telavi, written textbooks about physics and Georgian grammar, and encouraged the growth of a native printing industry. Our people are more worldly and cultured due to his influence, and a small group of scholastic intellectuals has begun to develop in our realm.”

We are lucky to have such a talented clergyman in our realm!

Gain 30 Admin, 10 diplo, 10 prestige.

Perhaps he can advise us at court.

Institution spread +5% until death of ruler.

Gain a Level 3 theologian (philosopher? Something else?) at half price.

define_advisor = {
type = theologian
skill = 3
female = no
discount = yes
name = "Anton I"
}

Note: I’m unsure what sort of advisor Anton I should be. Although he was a churchman, his influence was mainly over education, and I’m not really sure which advisor corresponds to that. He didn’t particularly make Georgia more stable by his presence so Theologian’s -2 unrest seems a bit ill-fitting.

12)

Besiki

Kartli and Georgian event

Year is at least 1770. Year is before 1790.

“A young man Besarion Zakarias dze Gabashivili, better known by his pen name of Besiki, has been writing excellent poetry. His writings include soulful love poems and rousing odes to our military triumphs. But he has a sharp tongue, and some of his poems are satires that make fun of powerful churchmen, who are consequently none too keen on him, as well as other courtiers. What should we do with this talented wastrel?

Appoint him as court poet!

>Gain a level 3 Artist at half price “Besiki”

>Clergy lose 15 loyalty

>Nobles lose 5 loyalty

Let him fend for himself.

Gain 10 diplo

Banish him!

>Clergy gain 10 loyalty

>Clergy gain 5 influence

>Nobles gain 5 loyalty

13)

(Lelo Burti

Event for all tags with Culture = Georgian. Mean time to fire = once or twice per game – not sure what that translates to. No time limits.

“A rousing game of Lelo Burti between two of our villages in $Province has got out of hand, leading to violence, disorder and bad blood between the two sides.”

We must restore order.

>Lose 5 Mil

That’s only healthy. Sport is supposed to be competitive.

>+1 unrest in $Province.

)

Note: in this one I’ve kind of projected early modern football onto lelo burti. Since it’s a bit like rugby I sort of assume that at some point, like early modern football, there was probably a punch-up or two. I’m more than happy to be corrected on this point though – I know very little about it to be honest, I just thought it might be a nice little flavour event.

Applies to all Georgian nations that are Orthodox:

-Capture Lomsia

The Capture of Vardzia

“We have captured the ancient and holy cave city of Vardzia! Truly we are blessed.”

+0.5 Patriarch Authority per year to province owner

-Capture Cyprus

Control of Gialia Monastery

“Our monks on Cyprus never thought this day would come. We have captured the Georgian monastery of Gialia. They shall now be protected forever against heretics and infidels. Praise be to God.”

+10 Patriarch Authority

-Capture Plovdiv (2750)

Control of Petritsioni Monastery

“Our monks never thought this day would come. We have captured the Georgian monastery of Petritsioni. They shall now be protected forever against heretics and infidels. Praise be to God.”

+10 Patriarch Authority

-Capture Macedonia

Control of Mount Athos

“We are now in command of the holy monastic centre of Mount Athos. Our monks in the Iveron Monastery shall now be protected forever against heretics and infidels. May God be praised.”

+1 Patriarch Authority per year to province owner – this bonus should apply to all Orthodox tags.

All these provinces should give missions if owned and not Orthodox to convert them to Orthodoxy for more Patriarch Authority (even more than standard conversion – say twice as much). Possibly also missions to capture them – having a mission to capture Vardzia (i.e. Lomsia) would be a fairly obvious mission for Imereti and Kartli at game start for example.

And now an event that had a large impact on Georgia: the Persian forced resettlement (also featuring an equivalent event for the Armenians):

Persia:

Forced Resettlement of the Georgians

Triggers:

Persia owns but has not cored Tbilisi, Kartli and/or Kakheti province.

Tbilisi, Kartli and/or Kakheti province culture = Georgian.

Persian ruler has trait “malevolent” and/or “cruel”.

“We have had enough of these rebellious Georgians. It is time to end their resistance once and for all.”

We will lay the land waste and force them to resettle far from their homeland.

>Tbilisi, Kartli and/or Kakheti province receives Scorched Earth modifier, gain 90% Devastation. Tbilisi, Kartli and/or Kakheti lose 3/3/3 development per province permanently. Tbilisi, Kartli and/or Kakheti -9 unrest.

>Gain 10% manpower permanently. All generals from now on get +1 shock, +1 manoeuvre. +1 advisor permanently. A random province cored by Persia gains 2/2/2 development per Georgian province affected (i.e. if done to three provinces three random provinces gain 2/2/2 development.)

Note: Persia should only get the 10% manpower, +1 advisor and +1 shock and manoeuvre once.

Forced Resettlement of the Armenians to New Julfa

Triggers:

Persia owns but has not cored Nakhchivan province.

Nakhchivan province has culture = Armenian.

Persian ruler has trait “malevolent” and/or “cruel”.

Persian capital = Isfahan(?)

“We have had enough of these rebellious Armenians. It is time to end their resistance once and for all.”

We will lay the land waste and force them to resettle in a new suburb of our capital.

>Nakhchivan province loses 3/3/3 development. Receives Scorched Earth modifier, gains 100% devastation. -10 unrest in Nakhchivan.

>Gain +1 merchant. +3/3/0 development in Isfahan province. Isfahan gains “Inland Centre of Trade” modifier until the end of the game.

Note: for both of these I'm not sure if Georgian or Armenia should also receive messages. Any thoughts?

Oh, and, just for fun, here's some proposals for National Ideas for Samtskhe, since the standard Georgian ones aren't really very fitting. If people like them I could write up some flavour text.

Traditions:

Law Code of Beka Aghbugha = -1 unrest

Sow division = +25% rebel support efficiency

1) Control of Vardzia = +0.5 Patriarch Authority per year

2) Underminer of unity = +20% Spy Network Construction

3) Akhaltsikhe fortress = +20% fort garrison size

4) Not just a mere prince = +1 diplo rep

5) Claim the mantle of the Great Khan = +0.5 prestige per year

6) Cultural borderland = +1 promoted cultures

7) Reduced burden of serfdom = +10% goods produced

Ambition:

+1 tolerance of heathens

Note 1) : Samtskhe should definitely NOT have HCC – they mostly became a fully assimilated part of the Ottoman Empire.

Note 2) Qvarqvare II should definitely get Intricate Webweaver as a trait.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Extra bonus point: I’m fairly happy with the new province split off from Kartli being called Tbilisi, but it could also be called Kvemo Kartli I guess, and Kartli could be renamed Shida Kartli. But this isn’t really a big deal for me either way, unlike renaming Mingrelia to Odishi, adding the Kingdom of Kakheti, and spelling Tbilisi correctly. Might just be slightly helpful if there's a Kartli tag in the game. By the way, I still don't really understand the new tag situation in Georgia - Georgia already exists but is also formable? I don't really get it.

Extra extra bonus point: I’d still really like to see the Kingdom of Kakheti represented in the game (honestly, it’s considerably more important than Samtskhe over the time period – although Samtskhe is of equal importance for the first 50 or so years of the game.) It should be an absolute monarchy while Kartli and especially Imereti should be feudal monarchies. The flag can basically be taken from the wikipedia page since it's a slight modification of the one in Vakushti Bagrationi's book, which is where all the other ones come from anyway. If any devs are reading this, I can provide king lists with some suggested stats if required. And I still think it should share at least Kartli’s ideas and probably Imereti’s too. EDIT TO ADD: My preference is that there should be two National Idea sets: the Kartli/Kakheti/Imereti one, and the Samtskhe one. Upon forming Georgia Kartli, Kakheti and Imereti keep their NIs, while Samtskhe gets to choose whether to keep theirs or switch to the other set.

Extra extra extra bonus point: Hopefully Lomsia will have quite a high level fortress - the castle at Akhaltsikhe is really impressive and they also had a couple of other solid fortresses like Khertvisi knocking about.

Trin Tragula · Sep 9, 2017

FYI if you want to suggest national ideas then the motivation and/or flavor text is the important part to include

(Yes we read everything so don't worry about the typo

)

Delurker · Sep 9, 2017

Trin Tragula said:
FYI if you want to suggest national ideas then the motivation and/or flavor text is the important part to include

(Yes we read everything so don't worry about the typo )

Righto - I'll get on to that at some point shortly.

Trin Tragula · Sep 9, 2017

I'll also take the opportunity to say that I think people like yourself who spends time on making detailed submissions in this subforum are one of the best aspects of this community.

We aim to make the best game we can within the constraints we have, that does not always mean we can meet every request but threads like these help a lot.
As usual I will add though that I can make no specific promises (apart from that typo) on what gets in and when

Delurker · Sep 9, 2017

Trin Tragula said:
I'll also take the opportunity to say that I think people like yourself who spends time on making detailed submissions in this subforum are one of the best aspects of this community.
We aim to make the best game we can within the constraints we have, that does not always mean we can meet every request but threads like these help a lot.
As usual I will add though that I can make no specific promises (apart from that typo) on what gets in and when

Cheers! And good to know that my ceaseless moaning paid off!

Machabeli · Sep 10, 2017

Delurker said:
Warning: this post is pretty long.

I figured if I was going to go down the road of giving Georgia some flavour, might as well go the whole hog. I’ve written these events more or less in chronological order. I started looking a bit at the modding pages of the eu4 wiki while writing these up so there are little bits of code in them but I’m still very much a learner in this area so I wrote nearly everything out in conventional script. Please ask if anything I’ve written isn’t clear. My source for most of this is Edge of Empires again, but there are other bits and bobs I’ve used – for example the Geoffroy de Thoisy event chain came from Wikipedia and the sources cited on his page. I’m going to collate all the events and other suggestions together and add them to the original post for ease of use. By the way, I’ve chosen which tags would have the events fairly carefully, so if I haven’t said “Georgia event” then assume it would not fire if you form Georgia etc. Although this all seems like a lot, bear in mind I'm suggesting stuff for what should be 4 or 5 tags (Kartli, Kakheti, Imereti, Samtskhe and Georgia.)

1)
Geoffroy de Thoisy event chain

Province event for Guria. Fires 1445. (note: if Imereti etc. cannot already see Burgundy on the map, maybe it should be able to after this event?)

Geoffroy de Thoisy

“A Burgundian knight, Geoffroy de Thoisy, who travelled East to crusade against the Ottomans, has decided to direct his religious zeal not only against infidel Muslims but also those of us of Orthodox faith. A naval commander, he has directed his flotilla to engage in piracy against us. Our friends in Trebizond have warned us of his arrival. What shall we do?”

A) Set up an ambush!

>Spend 10 Mil

> +10 relations with Trebizond

>Go to If A next event in chain

B) We do not concern ourselves with fools like this!

>nothing

>Go to If B next event in chain

1 month passes.

If A) Capture of Geoffroy de Thoisy

“Our forces have ambushed the rogue “crusader” Geoffroy de Thoisy and captured him in Batumi. What shall we do with him?”

Let us ransom him to the Burgundians.

>Burgundy pays 25 ducats to Imereti.

>Let us be magnanimous and exile him without seeking payment from his countrymen.

> +35 relations with Burgundy

>This wretch is a mere pirate. Execute him to set an example!

> Burgundy -20 relations with Imereti, Papal State -10 relations with Imereti. -1 unrest in Guria for 5 years. Burghers +10 loyalty.

Geoffroy de Thoisy raids Batumi

If B) “As our allies in Trebizond warned us, the crusader turned pirate Geoffroy de Thoisy has come to our shores and plundered whatever he could. Our fair city of Batumi in Guria was the one to suffer this time.”

That is displeasing.

> Guria gets “Raided Coast” modifier as if raided by Barbary pirates. Relations modifier affects Burgundy i.e. Imereti -25 relations with Burgundy. Burghers -10 loyalty. Guria +1 unrest for 5 years. Devastation +2?

2)

Creation of a separate western church

Imereti event. Date = 1470 or later. MTTH = 10 years.

“Though once we were united with our fellow Georgians to the East, reunion now looks a distant prospect indeed. Perhaps we should solidify this split and show our independence by declaring a separate church in Western Georgia that does not answer to the Catholicos-Patriarch of Mtskheta in Kartli.”

A) Yes, let us become fully independent in matters of church as well as state.

>-75 relations with Kartli, Kakheti (if in game).

>Gain 75% patriarch authority (or some very large number).

>Orthodox religious rebels rise up (small - say 3 stack - in Imereti.)

B) No, we still hold out hope of reunion – let us remain under the Catholicos-Patriarch of Mtskheta.

>+10 relations with Kartli, Kakheti

>lose 10% patriarch authority

(EDIT TO ADD: If you choose A), Kartli and Kakheti should both get the message:
"Our brethren in Imereti have decided to consecrate their own Catholicos-Patriarch and no longer answer to the rightful head of the Church in Mtskheta."

We are disappointed in their turn to sectarianism.

>-75 relations with Imereti
>-75% Patriarch Authority (i.e. same large number as Imereti gains.)

If A) >Reunite the eastern and western churches of Georgia

Triggers: one of the Georgian tags owns Imereti, Abkhazia, Kartli, Tbilisi provinces. That tag is Orthodox.

“We have laboured under the division of our Eastern and Western churches long enough. Should we not reunite them?”

Yes, it is long past time.

>Pay 20 admin, 20 diplo

>Gain +1 tolerance of the true faith

>Gain 30 Patriarch Authority

No, there is no need to do so.

>Lose 10 Patriarch Authority

Note: I realise that this is a bit of a weird one in-game as Imereti would already have a separate church in terms of the game mechanics but it was fairly significant as an event in the breakup of Georgia historically and isn’t directly rendered in-game at the moment.

3)

Lekianoba event chain

Kartli and Kakheti event. NOT Georgia event.

Triggers:

Year is after 1470. Year is before 1600.

Mean time to happen: 120 months. Happens repeatedly.

The Lekianoba

“Sensing our weakness, the mountain peoples of the North Caucasus have begun raiding our lands. They are adept at looting us and then retreating to the mountains before we can defend ourselves. Though they come from a variety of ethnic groups, we have come to know them as the Leks, and these raids as the Lekianoba. Our people demand that we deal with these raiders.”

Immediate effects:

>One province neighbouring Gazikumukh receives 10 devastation.

We must fight back against these barbarous thieves!

>Gain border friction CB against neighbouring province in Gazikumukh for 120 months. -100 relations with Gazikumukh.

We do not have the strength to fight against these brigands.

>Burghers lose 10 loyalty

>Nobility lose 10 loyalty

>Lose 15 prestige

Intensification of the Lekianoba

Mean time to happen: 60 months. Happens repeatedly.

Triggers: Year is after 1600.

Event “Beginning of the Lekianoba” has fired.

“The mountain peoples of the North Caucasus have become emboldened by our continued weakness, and have increased the frequency and severity of their raids. While once their raiding parties might only be a few hundred, now they send thousands of their people over the mountains to loot our fair land.”

Immediate effects:

>One province neighbouring Gazikumukh receives 20 devastation.

We must fight back against these barbarous thieves!

>Gain border friction CB against neighbouring province in Gazikumukh for 120 months. -100 relations with Gazikumukh.

We do not have the strength to fight against these brigands.

>Burghers lose 15 loyalty

>Nobility lose 15 loyalty

>Lose 30 prestige

End of the Lekianoba

Triggers:

Has previously had event “Beginning of the Lekianoba”.

Owns provinces Kartli, Tbilisi, Kakheti, Imereti, Odishi, Lomsia (or whatever counts as having formed Georgia in the new patch.)
AND/OR
Owns: Lakia (and Khundzia).

Only fires once.

“The Leks in the mountains now quake in fear when they hear our name. Our land is strong enough at last to convince them that it is no longer in their interest to raid us.”

That is good to hear.

>”The Lekianoba” and “Intensification of the Lekianoba” no longer fire.

Notes: there are some issues with the Lekianoba event chain that I haven’t quite figured out. First, the new Caucasus mountain range blocks direct access between Gazikumukh (the so-called Leks) and Georgia, so I’m not quite sure how that can play out. Maybe make a pass? Historically it wasn’t quite like that but to simulate it accurately you’d need to have transhumant pastoralists and variable province borders, neither of which is likely to be on the cards, so that might be the next best thing. I think AirikrStrife already suggested this but I’d like to second it. Second, both Avaria and Gazikumukh raided Georgia, but for simplicity I just made it Gazikumukh – I wasn’t sure the event would work with more than one tag – if it would, for all Gazikumukh, add “or Avaria”. I modelled this chain vaguely on the Cossack Aggression event chain but to the best of my knowledge the raiding wasn’t done by an estate – it was done by anyone and everyone with the connivance of, and sometimes organised by, the leaders of Gazikumukh and Avaria, so I’m not sure what message(s) Gazikumukh should get about all this. Any suggestions very much appreciated.

4)

Imereti and Samtskhe event – Note: NOT Georgian event

Enslavement by the Ottomans

Triggers:

Ottomans own Lomsia, Tao, Imereti, Guria, Odishi or Abkhazia.

Year is at least 1510.

Fires on average every twenty years (240 months) (I don’t quite know how to do MTTH).

“The Ottomans and their allies are abducting our people in $Province and selling them into slavery across Anatolia and the Middle East. Our people and our clergy demand that we do something.”

Immediate effects:

+5 devastation in an Imeretian/Samtskhe (whichever tag is getting the event) province neighbouring the Ottomans

+2 unrest in the same province

+25 relations with Mamluks

We must denounce this evil practice!

-1 unrest in that province

-50 relations with Ottomans

Gain Diplomatic Insult (?) CB against Ottomans for 120 months.

We do not have the strength to stand up to them.

Lose 15 prestige.

(I figure that the only way to end this would have been to form a united Georgia so this event won’t go on forever regardless – either Imereti and Samtskhe will form Georgia or they’ll be conquered. The +25 relations with the Mamluks is because some of them wound up becoming important in the Mamluk hierarchy and maintained contact with their homeland- I can provide sources if required.)

5)

Imereti event

Year is after 1540. Year is before 1555.

Levan I Dadiani

The upstart Eristavi (Duke) of Odishi claims we have slighted him by denying him the spoils of our previous campaigns. He now refuses to supply us with troops and has proclaimed himself Mtavari (Principal) meaning that he no longer answers to any Earthly sovereign.

We must bring this rebellious Duke to heel.

Odishi (Mingrelia) gains 50% autonomy.

10 stack of noble (or should it be particularist?) rebels appear in Odishi (Mingrelia).

General is Levan I Dadiani 3/2/3/0

Can use pictures etc. from here: http://dadiani.si.edu/levani.html

Note: As Odishi isn’t a separate tag, I’ve simplified the historical situation a lot here. I’m happy to add more detail if people think it’s worth it.

6)

Imereti (and Georgia?) event.

Year is after 1620. Year is before 1645.

Levan II Dadiani

“The Mtavari (Principal) of Odishi is a smart and calculating man named Levan II Dadiani. He has built up a considerable power base in his fiefdom. He has no scruples whatsoever. When his wife was allegedly found to have committed adultery with a courtier, he cut off her nose and cut out her tongue before sending her back to her father, the Duke of Abkhazia. He later had her lover killed and his body parts fired from a cannon. This alleged adultery was conveniently timed, as Levan lusted after his uncle’s wife. Now free to pursue her, he abducted and married her despite his uncle’s protests. Though he is extremely cruel, his governing skills have strengthened Odishi to the point that he now believes he is able to seize the throne for himself.”

We must meet this traitor on the field of battle.

12 stack of pretender rebels appear in Odishi (Mingrelia).

Odishi gains +50% autonomy.

Levan II Dadiani is 3/2/3/0 general

His ruler stats are 5/1/4 with Cruel, Malevolent, Entrepeneur as traits (if only one, Cruel). If Levan succeeds as pretender, capital moves to Odishi. (capital movement isn’t crucial but it’d be a nice touch.)

Note: Can use pictures from here: http://dadiani.si.edu/levanii.html

Note: Since there isn’t an independent principality of Odishi in the game, I had to simplify Levan II Dadiani’s career somewhat. He was quite a cunning diplomat but also alienated a *lot* of people because he was such a bastard (he survived at least one assassination attempt), so I only gave him 1 for that.

7)

Mariam Dadiani

Kartli and Georgian event

Year is after 1638. Year is before 1650.

Ruler of Kartli/Georgia must be male.

Ruler of Kartli/Georgia cannot have a consort already.

Ruler of Imereti IS NOT Levan II Dadiani

A potential bride has become available. Mariam Dadiani was the wife of Simon I Gurieli, the Prince of Guria, but he has now been blinded and deposed by his brother-in-law Levan II Dadiani of Odishi. Levan II Dadiani is keen on marrying her to us and cementing an alliance. She is a smart, capable administrator, and would be a useful partner in managing the kingdom. However, such a marriage will incur the enmity of the Kingdom of Imereti, as their ruler despises the rebellious Levan. What should we do?

A) Let us be bethrothed.

+100 Admin

Gain Consort “Mariam Dadiani”. Her stats are 5/3/1.

-100 relations with Imereti

B) Let us find a more suitable match.

If Kartli/Georgia owns Odishi, Odishi gains +1 unrest. Otherwise, nothing happens.

Picture can be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariam_Dadiani#/media/File:Mariam_dadiani.jpg

Note: I chose to give a flat 100 Admin instead of a ticking positive admin score per year for simplicity.

8)

Event chain: Queen Ketevan

(Kakheti – if in game) and Georgian event.

Fires only once

Triggers:

Georgia (Kakheti)

is_in_war = {

attacker_leader = Persia

start date = >1600<1700

}

war_score_against = {
who = Persia
value = 5
}
(i.e. Persia has at least +5 war score or equivalent low positive number if that doesn’t work for some reason, Persia is the aggresssor, and the year is from 1600-1700.)

Use Queen Ketevan as a diplomat

“We are struggling in this war. Perhaps we should send the Queen Mother, Ketevan, to negotiate with the Persians. She may be able to mollify them.”

Yes, her honest Christianity and good heart may reduce their bloodlust.

>If Persian ruler has trait Kind-hearted, go to “Queen Ketevan’s Successful Diplomacy” in 3 months.

Otherwise go to “The Martyrdom of Queen Ketevan” (after 60 months i.e. 5 years – note, this could be made much quicker for the sake of gameplay.)

No, let us keep her out of harm’s way.

>Nothing happens. –note: the AI should never take this option – it’s just there to avoid accidentally screwing the player.

Queen Ketevan’s Successful Diplomacy

“The Shah of Persia has heard the entreaties of our Queen Mother, Ketevan, and has decided to spare us future depredations.”

>Thanks be to God!

> white_peace between Persia and Georgia. set_ai_attitude of Persia to Georgia as Friendly until death of Persian ruler.

The Martyrdom of Queen Ketevan

“Appalling news! The Queen Mother, Ketevan, who we sent on embassy to the Persians, has been murdered by the Shah. She was offered the choice of converting to Islam and becoming a member of his harem, or continuing to profess her Christian faith. She refused to abandon her religious beliefs, so the Shah had her horribly tortured and executed,”

We shall tell tales of her martyrdom for as long as there is a Georgian nation.

>+50 Patriarch Authority

>+0.5 Patriarch Authority per year until the end of the game

>-150 relations with Persia

Note: Use image from here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:წმ._ქეთევან_დედოფლის_წამების_სცენა_–_The_scene_of_martyrdom_of_St._Queen_Ketevan.JPG

9)

Vakhtang VI’s Dasturlamali

Kartli and Georgia event

Year is after 1690. Year is before 1760. Ruler has at least 4 for Admin skill.

King Vakhtang VI was a great rationaliser and reformer. One of his major reforms was a new law code, the dasturlamali. The dasturlamali drew on Armenian, Jewish and Greek precedents and set specific and uniform punishments for crimes throughout the land. Punishment was based on blood price and structured according to a strict hierarchy: while killing a senior prince would require the payment of 1536 tumans, killing a mere peasant only required the payment of 12 tumans. Nevertheless, peasants gained from the legislation too, and serfdom became a little less oppressive.

He shall be known as Vakhtang the Law-Giver.

>-1 unrest in all provinces (until death of monarch?)

Note: I'm not totally keen on this event because it doesn't depend on Vakhtang VI actually being on the throne - I could never really get my head around those sorts of events. Still, seemed like I should write it up at least.

10) – this should trigger after first Sulkhan-Saba Orbeliani event

Sulkhan-Saba Orbeliani reveals his conversion to Catholicism

Year is after 1700. Year is before 1710.

“Our loyal advisor Sulkhan-Saba Orbeliani has made public his conversion to Catholicism. The clergy are displeased at his turn to heresy and believe someone with his beliefs should not have so much influence over the ruling of our country.”

A) Ignore the clergy – he is a good minister.

>Clergy lose 15 loyalty

>Clergy lose 10 influence

>lose 10% patriarch authority

>+1 tolerance of heretics until death of ruler

B) The priests are right – we cannot have a heretic in charge of state affairs.

>remove_advisor Sulkhan-Saba Orbeliani

>Clergy gain 10 loyalty

>Clergy gain 15 influence

>Gain 10% patriarch authority

>-1 tolerance of heretics until death of ruler

C) Actually, he’s right – the realm should convert to the true faith of Catholicism.

>Georgia changes religion to Catholicism

>Capital province changes religion to Catholicism

(hopefully destroyed religious unity will produce the required rebellion – can certainly add plenty of things here. This should be *extremely* tumultuous.)

>Nobles lose 50 loyalty

>-5 Stability

>Gain 50(?) Papal Influence

>+200 relations with Papal State

(I’d add reduced clergy loyalty etc but I’m not quite sure that makes sense – would they still be the old Orthodox Clergy in game at that point or the new Catholic Clergy?)

Important Note: C) is a bit of a whim on my part – it doesn’t have to be one of the choices. If ever Georgia was going to convert to Catholicism though, this would have been the time. Also if C) seems too “out there” as a choice the AI could be disabled from taking it potentially.

11)

Anton I

Kartli (Kakheti) and Georgia event. Kartli (Kakheti)/Georgia is Orthodox.

Year is 1755-1780

“Our Catholicos-Patriarch Anton I has taken great interest in increasing the level of education in our nation. He has set up schools, founded seminaries in Tbilisi and Telavi, written textbooks about physics and Georgian grammar, and encouraged the growth of a native printing industry. Our people are more worldly and cultured due to his influence, and a small group of scholastic intellectuals has begun to develop in our realm.”

We are lucky to have such a talented clergyman in our realm!

Gain 30 Admin, 10 diplo, 10 prestige.

Perhaps he can advise us at court.

Institution spread +5% until death of ruler.

Gain a Level 3 theologian (philosopher? Something else?) at half price.

define_advisor = {
type = theologian
skill = 3
female = no
discount = yes
name = "Anton I"
}

Note: I’m unsure what sort of advisor Anton I should be. Although he was a churchman, his influence was mainly over education, and I’m not really sure which advisor corresponds to that. He didn’t particularly make Georgia more stable by his presence so Theologian’s -2 unrest seems a bit ill-fitting.

12)

Besiki

Kartli and Georgian event

Year is at least 1770. Year is before 1790.

“A young man Besarion Zakarias dze Gabashivili, better known by his pen name of Besiki, has been writing excellent poetry. His writings include soulful love poems and rousing odes to our military triumphs. But he has a sharp tongue, and some of his poems are satires that make fun of powerful churchmen, who are consequently none too keen on him, as well as other courtiers. What should we do with this talented wastrel?

Appoint him as court poet!

>Gain a level 3 Artist at half price “Besiki”

>Clergy lose 15 loyalty

>Nobles lose 5 loyalty

Let him fend for himself.

Gain 10 diplo

Banish him!

>Clergy gain 10 loyalty

>Clergy gain 5 influence

>Nobles gain 5 loyalty

13)

(Lelo Burti

Event for all tags with Culture = Georgian. Mean time to fire = once or twice per game – not sure what that translates to. No time limits.

“A rousing game of Lelo Burti between two of our villages in $Province has got out of hand, leading to violence, disorder and bad blood between the two sides.”

We must restore order.

>Lose 5 Mil

That’s only healthy. Sport is supposed to be competitive.

>+1 unrest in $Province.

)

Note: in this one I’ve kind of projected early modern football onto lelo burti. Since it’s a bit like rugby I sort of assume that at some point, like early modern football, there was probably a punch-up or two. I’m more than happy to be corrected on this point though – I know very little about it to be honest, I just thought it might be a nice little flavour event.

Applies to all Georgian nations that are Orthodox:

-Capture Lomsia

The Capture of Vardzia

“We have captured the ancient and holy cave city of Vardzia! Truly we are blessed.”

+0.5 Patriarch Authority per year to province owner

-Capture Cyprus

Control of Gialia Monastery

“Our monks on Cyprus never thought this day would come. We have captured the Georgian monastery of Gialia. They shall now be protected forever against heretics and infidels. Praise be to God.”

+10 Patriarch Authority

-Capture Plovdiv (2750)

Control of Petritsioni Monastery

“Our monks never thought this day would come. We have captured the Georgian monastery of Petritsioni. They shall now be protected forever against heretics and infidels. Praise be to God.”

+10 Patriarch Authority

-Capture Macedonia

Control of Mount Athos

“We are now in command of the holy monastic centre of Mount Athos. Our monks in the Iveron Monastery shall now be protected forever against heretics and infidels. May God be praised.”

+1 Patriarch Authority per year to province owner – this bonus should apply to all Orthodox tags.

All these provinces should give missions if owned and not Orthodox to convert them to Orthodoxy for more Patriarch Authority (even more than standard conversion – say twice as much). Possibly also missions to capture them – having a mission to capture Vardzia (i.e. Lomsia) would be a fairly obvious mission for Imereti and Kartli at game start for example.

And now an event that had a large impact on Georgia: the Persian forced resettlement (also featuring an equivalent event for the Armenians):

Persia:

Forced Resettlement of the Georgians

Triggers:

Persia owns but has not cored Tbilisi, Kartli and/or Kakheti province.

Tbilisi, Kartli and/or Kakheti province culture = Georgian.

Persian ruler has trait “malevolent” and/or “cruel”.

“We have had enough of these rebellious Georgians. It is time to end their resistance once and for all.”

We will lay the land waste and force them to resettle far from their homeland.

>Tbilisi, Kartli and/or Kakheti province receives Scorched Earth modifier, gain 90% Devastation. Tbilisi, Kartli and/or Kakheti lose 3/3/3 development per province permanently. Tbilisi, Kartli and/or Kakheti -9 unrest.

>Gain 10% manpower permanently. All generals from now on get +1 shock, +1 manoeuvre. +1 advisor permanently. A random province cored by Persia gains 2/2/2 development per Georgian province affected (i.e. if done to three provinces three random provinces gain 2/2/2 development.)

Note: Persia should only get the 10% manpower, +1 advisor and +1 shock and manoeuvre once.

Forced Resettlement of the Armenians to New Julfa

Triggers:

Persia owns but has not cored Nakhchivan province.

Nakhchivan province has culture = Armenian.

Persian ruler has trait “malevolent” and/or “cruel”.

Persian capital = Isfahan(?)

“We have had enough of these rebellious Armenians. It is time to end their resistance once and for all.”

We will lay the land waste and force them to resettle in a new suburb of our capital.

>Nakhchivan province loses 3/3/3 development. Receives Scorched Earth modifier, gains 100% devastation. -10 unrest in Nakhchivan.

>Gain +1 merchant. +3/3/0 development in Isfahan province. Isfahan gains “Inland Centre of Trade” modifier until the end of the game.

Note: for both of these I'm not sure if Georgian or Armenia should also receive messages. Any thoughts?

Oh, and, just for fun, here's some proposals for National Ideas for Samtskhe, since the standard Georgian ones aren't really very fitting. If people like them I could write up some flavour text.

Traditions:

Law Code of Beka Aghbugha = -1 unrest

Sow division = +25% rebel support efficiency

1) Control of Vardzia = +0.5 Patriarch Authority per year

2) Underminer of unity = +20% Spy Network Construction

3) Akhaltsikhe fortress = +20% fort garrison size

4) Not just a mere prince = +1 diplo rep

5) Claim the mantle of the Great Khan = +0.5 prestige per year

6) Cultural borderland = +1 promoted cultures

7) Reduced burden of serfdom = +10% goods produced

Ambition:

+1 tolerance of heathens

Note 1) : Samtskhe should definitely NOT have HCC – they mostly became a fully assimilated part of the Ottoman Empire.

Note 2) Qvarqvare II should definitely get Intricate Webweaver as a trait.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Extra bonus point: I’m fairly happy with the new province split off from Kartli being called Tbilisi, but it could also be called Kvemo Kartli I guess, and Kartli could be renamed Shida Kartli. But this isn’t really a big deal for me either way, unlike renaming Mingrelia to Odishi, adding the Kingdom of Kakheti, and spelling Tbilisi correctly. Might just be slightly helpful if there's a Kartli tag in the game. By the way, I still don't really understand the new tag situation in Georgia - Georgia already exists but is also formable? I don't really get it.

Extra extra bonus point: I’d still really like to see the Kingdom of Kakheti represented in the game (honestly, it’s considerably more important than Samtskhe over the time period – although Samtskhe is of equal importance for the first 50 or so years of the game.) It should be an absolute monarchy while Kartli and especially Imereti should be feudal monarchies. The flag can basically be taken from the wikipedia page since it's a slight modification of the one in Vakushti Bagrationi's book, which is where all the other ones come from anyway. If any devs are reading this, I can provide king lists with some suggested stats if required. And I still think it should share at least Kartli’s ideas and probably Imereti’s too. EDIT TO ADD: My preference is that there should be two National Idea sets: the Kartli/Kakheti/Imereti one, and the Samtskhe one. Upon forming Georgia Kartli, Kakheti and Imereti keep their NIs, while Samtskhe gets to choose whether to keep theirs or switch to the other set.

Extra extra extra bonus point: Hopefully Lomsia will have quite a high level fortress - the castle at Akhaltsikhe is really impressive and they also had a couple of other solid fortresses like Khertvisi knocking about.

You're a hard worker m8 nice job.

Machabeli · Sep 10, 2017

Trin Tragula said:
I'll also take the opportunity to say that I think people like yourself who spends time on making detailed submissions in this subforum are one of the best aspects of this community.
We aim to make the best game we can within the constraints we have, that does not always mean we can meet every request but threads like these help a lot.
As usual I will add though that I can make no specific promises (apart from that typo) on what gets in and when

Well let's hope you guys divide kartli and kakheti into separate kingdoms.(i'm looking really forward to this patch)

Delurker · Sep 13, 2017

Okay, I thought about the Samtskhe NIs some more and here's what I came up with:

Samtskhe National Ideas

Traditions:

Law Code of Beka and Aghbugha = -1 unrest

Our leader Beka I formulated a comprehensive law code for our people in the late 13th century, which was updated by his successor Aghbugha. Even when other Georgian rulers have been unable to exert their authority, we have used this law code to maintain order and justice.

[note: the sources I’ve found disagree about which Aghbugha this refers to. I suspect it means Aghbugha I, but it’s possible it was Aghbugha II, who should be leader of Samtskhe at game start. I’m not 100% certain that it’s Beka I rather than Beka II either, but I’ve found a source specifically saying that it was Beka I and people have erred in saying it was Beka II.]

Underminer of unity = +25% rebel support efficiency

We have recently won a measure of independence from the throne of Georgia and have no desire to return to the fold. To that end our policy shall be to play our rivals off against one another and ensure that no ruler sits easily on their throne, lest they turn their attentions in our direction.

1) Sow division = +20% Spy Network Construction

It is important to us to keep tabs on our neighbours so that we might prevent them ganging
up on us. A few whispers in the right ears will go a long way to ensuring they never unite.

2) Heirs to Shota Rustaveli = +1 prestige per year

Shota Rustaveli, the writer of the 12th century Georgian national epic The Man in the Panther’s Skin, is reputed to come from the village of Rustavi in our lands. His work's popularity in the Georgian lands and beyond reflects well on our people.

3) Rabati Fortress = +20% fort garrison size

The Rabati fortress in Akhaltsikhe is one of the strongest in all the Georgian lands. Its walls have stood up to many an invasion, and will stand strong in the wars to come.

4) Not just a mere prince = +1 diplo rep

Our independent foreign policy has begun to draw attention from outsiders. We are esteemed for our intelligent diplomacy and are the equal of other Georgian leaders in negotiations.

5) Akhaltsikhe Mint = -10% inflation reduction cost

We have a tradition of minting our own coins at times when the central Georgian state is weak. Restarting this practice will bring more prosperity and prestige to our land.

6) Sacred heritage = +0.5 Patriarch Authority per year (I guess since they might convert, maybe this should be +1 Tolerance of the True Faith, but I'd rather have the Patriarch Authority one if that can somehow not be totally disabled if Samtskhe converts.)

Our lands have long had special spiritual import for the Georgian people. The holy cave monastery of Vardzia, the Atsquri Icon of the Virgin Mary, the Adysh Gospels and the Anchistakhi Icon are just some of the treasures of Orthodoxy in our domain.

7) Cultural borderland = +1 promoted cultures

Our lands have always had a great ferment of peoples: Turks, Armenians, Turkomans, Mongols, Pontic Greeks and of course Georgians have made Samtskhe their home. This has left its mark on our culture, not least in our Turkic royal title, Atabeg.

Ambition:

+2 tolerance of heathens

This should be the ambition due to the fact that Samtskhe converted from Orthodox to Muslim over time and became part of the Ottoman Empire. The idea 7 and the ambition are based on the increased Ottoman influence there. I put Holy heritage 6th to reflect that Qvarqvare’s sons were very pious, even if he wasn’t. The aim of the ideas is to get Samtskhe to intrigue as much as possible against the other Georgian kingdoms while also raising their profile.

Note 1) Samtskhe should definitely NOT have HCC – they mostly became a fully assimilated part of the Ottoman Empire and much of their lands today are now part of Turkey, not Georgia.

Note 2) Qvarqvare II should definitely get Intricate Webweaver as a trait. He was the master of pitting different Georgian Kings against one another. He should have pretty high stats actually – 4/5/4 or 4/5/5 I think. He began minting coins there, repeatedly tried to hive off the church from the main Georgian Orthodox hierarchy, was very successful diplomatically in the short term (though personally I think his tactic of creating a disunited Georgia to maintain independence was very short-sighted), beat Giorgi VIII in battle, took areas to the South nearly up to Erzurum, and withstood the onslaught of QQ and AQ – he lost often but not always against them.

Note 3) I'd be pretty tempted to make Samtskhe and Georgia Historic Rivals given that Georgia always wanted Samtskhe to rejoin the Kingdom and kept trying to reconquer them and Samtskhe's whole foreign policy consisted of dividing and weakening Georgia so that it couldn't regain control. The only slight issue I could see with that is that Qvarqvare II in particular was so Machiavellian he allied with Giorgi VIII to get him to retake the throne once Bagrat took it the first time having backed Bagrat to take it, so it might reduce Samtskhe's options for backstabbing a little too much.

I have plenty more suggestions to finish writing up by the way.

EDIT: I swapped idea 1 and the Tradition because you need spy network strength to support rebels so it made no sense to have them in the reverse order.

EDIT 2: I swapped idea 1 and the Tradition back again - I want rebel support efficiency available very early and it'd take too long to unlock if it was the first idea. Qvarqvare II's Intricate Webweaver attribute should help with the spy network strength in the meantime.

By the way, apart from Edge of Empires, I drew fairly heavily on this article, which is pretty good: https://www.academia.edu/17203351/B...mic_World_The_Atabegs_of_Samcxe_and_the_Turks

Delurker · Sep 14, 2017

So I was really bored and couldn’t sleep and decided to try and work out how you might actually simulate the break-up of Georgia in the game engine. I don’t know if the devs have made any DHEs already but here’s my contribution. Bear in mind I’ve simplified things a certain amount. I’m also conscious that I’m mandating certain heirs. I hope that’s not too out of the spirit of the game - in order for Georgia to split in the way it did, things have to go a certain way. Also my proposal requires two new tags: the Kingdom of Kartli and the Kingdom of Kakheti. I provided some details of what they should be like in a separate section below. I have interspersed the text with historical events which I’ve put in square brackets, to try and take the reader through the whole process. I have to say until wrote this thing up I found the break-up extremely hard to follow – it’s pretty confusing! As usual, please ask if anything is unclear. Note: all rulers described should have the dynasty Bagrationi apart from the rulers of Samtskhe whose dynasty is Jaqeli. This would provide for potential random future personal unions hopefully, which is historically accurate.
I also wrote up a couple of other bits and bobs.

In 1444: Georgia. Imereti as vassal of Georgia. Samtskhe as independent.

Georgia king = Vakhtang IV. Heir is Giorgi (VIII/I)

Imereti vassal leader = Demetre. Heir is Bagrat (VI) (for simplicity)

Samtskhe leader = Aghabugha. Heir is Qvarqvare (II)

(this is what the devs put in the game – which is good work by them! J At least for the leaders – don’t know about the heirs). Note: there’s an argument for not having Imereti at the start but this way you get to play as a co-king from game start as well which gives you more options so I figure it’s a slightly better choice.

[1446 Vakhtang dies without kids. Giorgi VIII, his third brother, succeeds him]

= Either just program him as heir or have a DHE of Vakhtang dying without kids and Giorgi replacing him.

1)

Vakhtang IV dies

Georgia event. Year is 1446.

“We have received some tragic news that brings fear to our hearts. King Vakhtang IV is dead. Given the perilous state of the Kingdom this is the last thing we wanted to hear.”

Still, we must go on.

>-1 stability (like usual on monarch death – don’t add extra!)

>Giorgi VIII succeeds to the throne of Georgia.

[Giorgi VIII is de jure king of everywhere (but in practice only runs Kartli and Kakheti and maybe Imereti province - so everywhere except Samtskhe for our purposes - and Imereti provinces all have high autonomy.) Has heir Alexandre (who will become Alexandre I of Kakheti).]

Giorgi VIII is 5/2/1. Trait: Martial Educator(?).

[Demetre dies 1452.]

2)

Death of Crown Prince Demetre

Triggers: year is 1452.

"Awful news! Crown Prince Demetre, who has been ruling Imereti for us, has been killed by his horse while hunting. We shall now entrust the rule of Imereti to our close kinsman Bagrat."

That is a shame.

>Giorgi VIII remains King of Georgia. Bagrat becomes vassal ruler of Imereti.

>Hidden event: Sets clock ticking on Bagrat's revolt event. MTTH 11 years – this is historical length. Could be sooner.

[Bagrat, Giorgi VIII's brother, becomes Duke of Imereti]

[1462 Qvarqvare II of Samtskhe fights Giorgi VIII and wins with help of Uzun Hasan of Aq Qoyunlu.]

[Bagrat, who is either Giorgi VIII's brother or nephew, is Duke of Kutaisi Samokalako (urban region.) He rebels with help of Qvarqvare and Western nobles. Claims crown of Imereti 1463 and defeats Giorgi VIII in battle of Chikhori in 1463. To gain Western nobles' military support, promises them de facto independence. Also claims throne of whole of Georgia later.]

3)

Nobles clamour for you to seize the Georgian throne

Imereti event. MTTH 11 years after Event: Death of Crown Prince Demetre. Triggers Event: Bagrat goes into revolt.

“The great nobles of Imereti have made it plain that they want you to seize the Georgian throne for yourself. The Shervashidzes of Abkhazia, the Dadianis of Odishi, the Gurielis of Guria and the Gelovanis of Svaneti are keen to support your attempt to win the crown and will provide troops – under one condition. They demand that if you are successful in usurping the Georgian throne, they be allowed absolute autonomy concerning their fiefdoms and freedom from taxation. What do you say to this offer?”

A) Let’s go and win the crown!

>20 stack of Georgia pretender rebels rises in Imereti. Basically make it too big for him to lose? Bagrat general stats: 4/3/3/0 NOTE: AI should ALWAYS take this option.

B) We have no interest in this proposal.

>Nothing happens.

[I should add that this is a bit ahistorical – Bagrat was ambitious and didn’t need the nobles to put him up to it, but it makes a bit more sense in gameplay terms to do it this way I think. Actually Qvarqvare II of Samtskhe gave him a push in that direction but again I don’t think that quite works in gameplay terms.]

4)

Bagrat goes into revolt

Georgia event. MTTH 11 years after Event: Death of Crown Prince Demetre.

"Our kinsman, Bagrat, the Duke of Kutaisi urban region, whom we had entrusted with Imereti’s affairs, has revolted against us! Having gained the support of the nobles of Guria, Odishi, Abkhazia and Svaneti in Western Georgia in return for promising them extensive autonomy in their fiefdoms if he wins the throne, he now claims the entire realm for himself!"

We must crush this traitor!

[presumably Bagrat’s forces will have appeared due to result of choice A) from Event: Nobles clamour for you to seize the Georgian throne. This event should basically just be notification for the ruler of Georgia.]

5)

Bagrat wins and becomes King of Georgia and King of Imereti in a personal union. Georgia is senior partner. Imereti has fairly high liberty desire (is this applicable in personal union?) – not constant rebels but you’re not going to be able to integrate it into Georgia anytime in the next 30 years.

DHE

Georgia event.

Our Allies Claim their Due

Triggers: Bagrat VI becomes King of Georgia. MTTH 1 month (immediately if possible).

"As condition for their help in fighting our kinsman Giorgi VIII, the Shervashidzes of Abkhazia, the Dadianis of Odishi, the Gurielis of Guria and the Gelovanis of Svaneti demanded that their provinces each be given de facto independence. We must now honour our agreement."

Very well.

>Guria, Abkhazia, Odishi, (Svaneti if in game) gain 100% autonomy [sic].

Bagrat VI trait is Greedy. 1/2/5. His heir should be Konstantine Bagrationi (the future Konstantine II) who is 2/3/2. Trait: Charismatic negotiator. (see below). Ideally Konstantine should be his heir only in Georgia and Alexandre should be his heir in Imereti but I don’t know if you can have different heirs for different parts of a personal union.

[note: technically Bagrat became King of Imereti in 1463 after the battle of Chikhori and only King of Georgia in 1466 but I merged the two events for simplicity.]

[1465 Giorgi VIII invades Samtskhe, loses, is captured by Qvareqvare II.]

[1466 Bagrat invades Kartli and proclaims himself King Bagrat VI of Georgia. Qvarqvare II releases Giorgi VIII. Giorgi VIII can only find support in Kakheti so becomes Giorgi I of Kakheti (see below).]

6)

Georgia(?) event. Or event in Kakheti province??

Trigger – Bagrat VI captures Tbilisi – Tbilisi has_rebel_faction pretender?? Or maybe GEO has_ruler = "Bagrat VI" – this would be most accurate but I’m not quite sure it’d fire well.

Our realm has nearly slipped from our grasp

"Due to our repeated defeats, we have few supporters left in this land. Our only friends are now in Kakheti. We must rule there, even if the rest of our rightful realms are no longer under our control."

Very well - we shall now be known as Giorgi I of Kakheti.

color:#222222">>cede_province = Kakheti (+any other provinces added to Kakheti region by devs in patch e.g. Hereti etc.)
>change_tag = Kingdom of Kakheti
(It’s something to do with these lines of code but I don’t quite know how to make it happen.)

>Formation of Kingdom of Kakheti

>Short truce (say 2 years) between Georgia and Kingdom of Kakheti.

[Not quite historical but just to give time for Kakheti to get on its feet. Also Bagrat didn’t immediately try to conquer Kakheti anyway.]

7)

Related event for Georgia:

Georgia event. Fires immediately after Our realm has nearly slipped from our grasp event.

The fate of Giorgi VIII

The coward Giorgi VIII, finding he no longer has any support elsewhere, has fled to his power base of Kakheti where the people remain loyal to him and had himself crowned as Giorgi I of Kakheti.

Let him run - we are in control now.

>2 year truce between Georgia and new Kingdom of Kakheti

8)

Kakheti event

Triggers: Formation of the Kingdom of Kakheti. MTTH 1 month.

Coherent Army

"Though we no longer control most of our rightful lands, at least we have maintained the army structure that served our ancestors so well and do not have to rely so heavily upon the whims of feudal lords to supply us with soldiers."

That is something, at least.

>+10% manpower. Or maybe +3% discipline?

[Should have big enough army to prevent Georgia conquering them but not big enough to do anything else (say 10 stack??). Giorgi VIII/I maintained the army structure of the old Georgian army, unlike his rivals who had to rely heavily on feudal lords for their manpower.

Also, Kakheti needs to be significantly richer than any individual provinces in Imereti as it was in reality to prevent it being gobbled up immediately.]

[1468 Bagrat proclaims Alexandre, his son, heir to Imereti, and Konstantine (his first cousin once removed) as heir to Kartli.]

[1478 Bagrat dies. Konstantine claims both Kartli and Imereti - Alexandre son of Bagrat is shut out - demoted to Duke of Racha-Lekhumi instead.]

9)

Konstantine II seizes the whole Kingdom (Georgia event. Fires on death of Bagrat (or Imereti has_ruler = "Konstantine II”) – may be simpler.

"Although Bagrat VI bequeathed his son Alexandre the Kingdom of Imereti and his first cousin once removed Konstantine only the Kingdom of Kartli, Konstantine has successfully claimed Imereti for himself too. Though Alexandre tried to have himself crowned King of Imereti, nobody came to the coronation. The lack of support for Alexandre made it easy for Konstantine to seize total power and demote Alexandre to being merely the Duke of Racha-Lechkhumi."

It's good to be King

>”Georgia” disappears.

>Formation of the Kingdom of Kartli from Tbilisi province and Kartli province. Kingdom of Kartli is a Feudal monarchy. Its capital is Tbilisi. King is Konstantine II. [his heir is Davit – the future Davit X – but he’s very young or not even born depending on the timing. Could stop railroading of heirs here.]

>Konstantine has Kartli and Imereti in personal union. Kartli is the senior partner in the union.

>Hidden action - sets Alexandre, son of Bagrat event to fire. MTTH in real life was 8 years but I’d be tempted to speed it up a bit to say 3 years.

[As mentioned above, Konstantine II is 2/3/2. Trait: Charismatic negotiator].

[This setup isn’t quite right as Konstantine wasn’t de jure King of Kartli until later – he was King of Georgia – but I think this is probably the best time to form the Kingdom of Kartli.]

10)

Imereti event.

Fires MTTH 3 (8) years after Konstantine II seizes whole Kingdom event.

Alexandre, son of Bagrat VI, claims the Kingdom of Imereti for himself

"The deposed Alexandre, who we demoted to Duke of Racha-Lechkhumi, has raised an army and claimed the throne of Imereti for himself."

We must destroy this usurper!

>13 stack of Imereti separatist rebels arises in Imereti province. Maybe add a couple of other small stacks to siege other areas down - 5 stack each in Guria, Odishi, (Abkhazia if owned too?), since they were so independent at this point anyway.

[In reality I don’t think it was a particularly massive army but other invasions by Turkmens etc. distracted Konstantine II.] Anyway, Alexandre becomes ruler of an independent Imereti as Alexandre II. He has no heir at this point.

>Formation of the independent Kingdom of Imereti (if successful).

(Imereti's provinces should still have high-ish autonomy though that can maybe tick down a little from the 100% of the earlier event.)

Then The Darbazi of $Year$ event fires and fixes the existing borders - event should fire on conclusion of above conflict or on formation of independent Kingdom of Imereti.

11)

The Darbazi of $Year$ (don’t know how to make this variable but surely it’s easy?)

Imereti, Georgia, Karti, Samtskhe and Kakheti event

Triggers: Kingdom of Imereti becomes fully independent – no longer in personal union. Maybe could use IME is_lesser_in_union = no or something??

“Notables and clerics from across the Georgian lands have come together in a great darbazi (meeting) to try to resolve the division of our people once and for all. They propose that the rulers of Kartli, Imereti, Kakheti and Samtskhe stop this senseless bloodshed and recognise the existing division of the Georgian lands until God should be minded to reunite us.”

A) We shall legitimate the status quo.

>+100 relations with all other Georgian tags. Truce for 15 years between all four tags. Tags lose all claims to other Georgian tags.

Note: AI should always take this option.

B) We cannot accept the situation as it stands.

>-200 relations with all other Georgian tags.

Note: I don’t quite understand how to get a 4 tag event to work effectively – hopefully the devs will understand what I’m getting at though. A further possibility would be for all Georgian tags especially Kakheti have historic rivals against one another - with 1490 event can choose to remove that and markedly increase relations but give up all claims/cores. – This might not allow for flexible enough diplomacy though.

[The real Darbazi was hosted by Konstantine II and happened in 1490. Everyone signed. “until God should be minded” is in the original declaration so I put that in the text.]

(The simplest although inaccurate way to start the game is actually in 1446 with Giorgi as king of K and Kakheti. Given existing tags, have Demetre as King of Imereti. Bagrat seizes throne and kicks it all off.)

Use this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...Georgia_by_Prince_Vakhushti_Bagrationi.27.jpg and the images on Wikipedia, which appear to have been created by a legitimate Georgian scholar, for the flags. From left to right, top to bottom: Abkhazia, Guria, Odishi (note: *Odishi*, not “Mingrelia”), Imereti, Georgia(?), Georgia's coat of arms (?), Kakheti, X, Shirvan (I think – must be the region – not the whole place clearly), Lek lands/Daghestan.

Bottom Row: Samtskhe-Saatabago, Kartli, Svaneti, Y. The small one off to the right is Rani I think.
Kingdom of Kartli:

Since foreigners referred to this as “Georgia proper” and it contains Tbilisi, I suggest it be made a different shade of red from Georgia.

Kingdom of Kartli is a Feudal monarchy. Its capital is Tbilisi. It consists of Tbilisi and Kartli provinces. King is Konstantine II. His heir is Davit – the future Davit X – but he’s very young or not even born depending on the timing so he doesn't have to be in the game. Kartli province should have medium autonomy, say 45-55%%? Kartli was sending diplomats to Spain in the 1490s so Spain shouldn’t be terra incognita for them at least by then.

Kingdom of Kakheti:

Not fussed on the colour. Vakhushti Bagrationi has green. Might go with yellow instead to distinguish it from the others? Could make Samtskhe yellow (as in VB) so that Kakheti could be green. This might actually be a good idea anyway as the Ottomans are likely to get up near to Samtskhe and the two shades of green might be confusing.

Kingdom of Kakheti is a Despotic Monarchy – not a Feudal monarchy, as Giorgi quickly reorganised the state to reduce the power of the feudal lords. Capital is Gremi. Ruler is Giorgi I Bagrationi (previously Giorgi VIII of Georgia.) Heir is Alexandre I Bagrationi who inherits in 1476 – he’s the same guy as Giorgi VIII/I’s heir from before – note, there are two Alexandres! Alexandre is 2/4/1. Careful. Murdered by his son and heir Evil Giorgi in 1511 (will write a DHE for this if Kingdom of Kakheti is added to the game. He’s a fun character!) Kakheti has claims on all Georgian provinces (except Samtskhe) on formation as Giorgi and Alexandre still claimed the whole of Georgia. Any additional Kakheti provinces the devs come up with have relatively low autonomy. Kakheti hopefully is fairly prosperous – and much more so than any individual province in Imereti. Kakheti was sending diplomats to Muscovy by the 1490s so Muscovy shouldn’t be terra incognita by then at latest (although northwards it should be the edge of the known world more or less.)

Kingdom of Imereti:

Imereti is feudal monarchy. Starts with high noble influence/demands for territory if possible. All of Imereti’s provinces should be significantly poorer than Kartli and Kakheti – Imereti province itself should be the richest as it had Kutaisi, which was one of its few decent sized towns. Imereti’s provinces should have very high autonomy at start. Imereti at the start of the game should have Burgundy visible on the map (not fully visible - just not terra incognita.)

Samtskhe Saatabago:

Should have no claims on Georgian provinces at start. I’m very tempted to make it and Georgia (but not the other Kingdoms) Historic Rivals. The only thing against it would be that Samtskhe’s diplomacy involved dividing the Georgian Kingdoms, which sometimes would sometimes maybe have meant allying even the Kingdom of Georgia in-game if it were weak and another Kingdom were strong. Should be reasonably prosperous – at least Lomsia province should be anyway. Lomsia’s fortress should be quite high level.

This is a useful starting point for Ottoman dynamic names: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childir_Eyalet

Georgia:

Formation of Georgia:

Requires:

Tbilisi, Kartli clearly. Really should be + Imereti province + Kakheti province but that doesn’t work in the set-up provided at the start of the game – unless re-forming Georgia has different criteria from Georgia at game start – is that even possible?

On formation, gets permanent claims to every province within Kartli, Kakheti, Imereti and Samtskhe at game start -i.e. all the Georgian provinces.

At game start or at least after Giorgi takes the throne, the initial Georgia should have a mission to conquer Lomsia – IRL Giorgi VIII was captured in his attempt to take it which is where Bagrat got the initial opportunity to seize the throne from.

1)
Creation of a separate Church in Samtskhe event chain

Samtskhe event. Date = 1455 or later. MTTH = 5 years.

“Though once we were united with our fellow Georgians, we have become increasingly independent from them and no longer wish to take orders from them in church matters. Perhaps we should solidify this split and show our independence by declaring a separate church of Samtskhe that does not answer to the Catholicos-Patriarch of Mtskheta in Kartli.”

A) Yes, let us become fully independent in matters of church as well as state.

>-75 relations with Georgia, Kartli, Kakheti (if in game).

>Gain 50% patriarch authority (or some very large number).

>Hidden effect: Go to Resistance to the new Samtskhe church hierarchy event after 3 months.

B) No, we still hold out hope of reunion – let us remain under the Catholicos-Patriarch of Mtskheta.

>+10 relations with Kartli, Kakheti

>lose 10% patriarch authority

If you choose A), Kartli and Kakheti should both get the event:

Samtskhe church leaves the main Church of Georgia

"Our brethren in Samtskhe have decided to consecrate their own Catholicos-Patriarch and no longer answer to the rightful head of the Church in Mtskheta."

We are disappointed in their turn to sectarianism.

>-75 relations with Samtskhe

>-50% Patriarch Authority (i.e. same large number as Samtskhe gains.)

Resistance to the new Samtskhe church hierarchy

The Catholicos-Patriarch of Mtskheta, Davit III Gobeladze, has not taken our declaration of independence from the existing church hierarchy lying down. He has come to Samtskhe, excommunicated the bishop of Atsquri, and defrocked the priests that the bishop had ordained. Consequently the people no longer believe that our church is holy and are boycotting religious festivals conducted by our clergy. Our priests demand that we return to the hierarchy of the Catholicos-Patriarch of Mtskheta. What shall we do?

Immediate effects: +6 unrest in all Orthodox provinces in Samtskhe.

We must bow to popular pressure and return to the old hierarchy.

> -4 unrest in all Orthodox provinces in Samtskhe. -100 Patriarch Authority.

We shall stay the course.

>+ 4 unrest in all Orthodox provinces in Samtskhe. Clergy loses 30 loyalty. 8 stack of peasant (or Orthodox?) rebels appears in Lomsia, 6 stack in Tao.

2)
Qvarqvare's Rebellion

Triggers: Year is 1447.

"Our brother and designated successor Qvarqvare has become fed up with his position in our Principality and has attempted to seize the throne for himself!"

We must put him back in his place.

>6 stack of pretender rebels rise up in Lomsia. Qvarqvare is 4/2/2/0.

(Even if loses, remains the heir.)

Imereti and Georgia event:

Triggers: stability is 3. Country is at peace. Prestige is 75 or higher [to attract academics there].

Re-endow the Gelati Academy

The Gelati Monastery near Kutaisi was founded by our great King David the Builder and is one of our most important religious sites. King David not only had himself buried there, but also set up an academy which became a centre of learning during the Georgian Golden Age. Though it has since fallen on hard times due to our recent turmoil, now we have a period of peace and prosperity it might be a good idea to build up the academy once again to prove that we are a country that can think as well as fight.

Yes, education is crucial to our country’s future.

>Pay 1/3 annual income

>-5% idea cost permanently

>Clergy +10 influence

No, there is no need to spend our money on useless academics.

>-10 prestige

As usual, if you have any queries please don't hesitate to ask.

Georgia Changes for Flavour and Accuracy

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