germany ai: anyone ever seen it work in 1.3?

[blah.blah.blah]

I've been playing games as minor powers lately (though this applies to playing as the USA just as well), and one thing that really bugs me is that it seems the German AI is totally, utterly unable to deal with the USSR. By the time you've got the units built up to actually enter the fight, you find that Germany is already doomed (by, say, September '41). Sure, they've got a lot of units in the USSR. But they aren't getting anywhere. I've never seen them get even close to Moskva or Leningrad in either the '39 or '41 scenarios; they usually seem to get bogged down on the first major river line they encounter. After that, it just turns into a war of attrition with the Soviets gaining ever more divisions.

It's really not much fun to build up for war and then find that you aren't really needed at all. I've experimented with various aggression settings, etc, and nothing really seems to fix the problem. Does anybody have any ideas here?

 

[unmerged(49949)]

I have the same problem, but it doesn't affect my ability as the U.S. to invade and liberate occupied France, etc. Usually the Germans advance two or three provinces in and just stop, with some going back and forth all the time. Regrettibly, I have no idea how to fix it.

 

[unmerged(61835)]

I've been playing games as minor powers lately (though this applies to playing as the USA just as well), and one thing that really bugs me is that it seems the German AI is totally, utterly unable to deal with the USSR. By the time you've got the units built up to actually enter the fight, you find that Germany is already doomed (by, say, September '41). Sure, they've got a lot of units in the USSR. But they aren't getting anywhere. I've never seen them get even close to Moskva or Leningrad in either the '39 or '41 scenarios; they usually seem to get bogged down on the first major river line they encounter. After that, it just turns into a war of attrition with the Soviets gaining ever more divisions.

It's really not much fun to build up for war and then find that you aren't really needed at all. I've experimented with various aggression settings, etc, and nothing really seems to fix the problem. Does anybody have any ideas here?

I see them do pretty good all the time.In most of the games i play European Russia is normally pretty overun by late '41 to early '42.

What version are you playing?Plus there seems to be a pretty random nature to the game.You can play 10 games and they turn out one way,but the next ten may turn out differently.

*edit*sorry i meant A or B 1.3.

 

[blah.blah.blah]

I see them do pretty good all the time.In most of the games i play European Russia is normally pretty overun by late '41 to early '42.

What version are you playing?Plus there seems to be a pretty random nature to the game.You can play 10 games and they turn out one way,but the next ten may turn out differently.

My sample so far is 11 hands off games using 1.3B. Germany has never come within 2 provinces of either Moskva or Leningrad yet. About half the time, they have not taken the Crimea by early '42. I usually stop the test in March, 1942.

I think i'll try the DAIM mod. Maybe that will do something. I'll let you both know how that turns out.

 

[unmerged(61835)]

My sample so far is 11 hands off games using 1.3B. Germany has never come within 2 provinces of either Moskva or Leningrad yet. About half the time, they have not taken the Crimea by early '42. I usually stop the test in March, 1942.

I think i'll try the DAIM mod. Maybe that will do something. I'll let you both know how that turns out.

I'm playing 1.3a and normally see them taking Moscow and pushing to the river line beyond it along the front.The exceptions being in the Northern theater with Murmansk,Archangel,and Leningrad being pockets.Also in them seeming content south with the Crimea and the regions southof it pocketed and cut off.Sometimes the Soviets manage a counter offensive to regain territory and others they collapse like an Italian fighting Mike Tyson after that.

 

[blah.blah.blah]

I'm playing 1.3a and normally see them taking Moscow and pushing to the river line beyond it along the front.The exceptions being in the Northern theater with Murmansk,Archangel,and Leningrad being pockets.Also in them seeming content south with the Crimea and the regions southof it pocketed and cut off.Sometimes the Soviets manage a counter offensive to regain territory and others they collapse like an Italian fighting Mike Tyson after that.

Do you usually see these German advances in the 41 scenario, or are you playing the 36 campaign? Just curious

 

[unmerged(61835)]

Do you usually see these German advances in the 41 scenario, or are you playing the 36 campaign? Just curious

Oops,sorry.Misunderstood that part.Lets chalk it up to the beer i had :rofl: .Yeah '36 usually.The freaking Germans are almost unstoppable by 41 or 42 in starting from there.

 

[unmerged(44118)]

had the same thing happen in my recent japan game they advanced about 3 provinces and then bogged down now its 1945 the germans are still holding the same three provinces with their army being only 1/2 of their army in 1941 and the sovjets having around 500 divs.
Luckely i took out the americans and i think ill help the poor buggers and take out the ussr

 

[unmerged(61311)]

Im playing verson 1.3b and I agree Germany is never able to break out or even get past kiev. From there it pretty much stays the same. they dont seem able to take advantage of their higher organazation or ability to encircle huge portions of the Russian army. Ive played the game from both prospectives many times and have dominated every time. guess Ill wait to hear about the DAIM mod from blah.blah.blah.

 

[blah.blah.blah]

Wow

It seems the DAIM has a rather...er...noticeable effect. Here's how my game is now set up for the ai tests: 1941 scenario, under 1.3B. All game settings are set to normal. For testing purposes, I'm playing as Sweden in hands off mode. I have installed the DAIM mod, but only for Japan, Germany, and Italy. All results are as of October 15, 1941. I'd post screenshots, but I can't figure out how that is done

Test 1: Germany has reached a line from the outskirts of Leningrad, to Moskva, Tula, Rostov. Believe it or not, Finland actually held off the Soviets. The Soviet army is pretty much routed. The Italians are holding off the British in North Africa, though look like their line will probably break soon. Japan has totally overrun China and puppeted it. Wow, I've never seen any of those items happen before in 1.3B

Test 2: Germany has reached a line east of Moskva, and have taken Leningrad. Closing in on Stalingrad now, and the Soviet army is once again routed. Italians are losing ground steadily, but British troops are at very low org. Japan will annex China within a week or so, probably.

Test 3: Much the same as test 1, except that Italy has advanced somewhat against Britain, and Japan has not yet annexed China. It will clearly win, however.

Test 4: Germans outside Leningrad, and have lost heavily trying to take it (they seem to have lost 8-10 divisions there). Moskva has fallen. Italy and Britain are stalemated near the Egypt/Libya border. Japan has annexed China.

That's very interesting. It seems that under the mod, the Germans have suddenly learned how to encircle Soviet stacks. Usually they are small stacks, but the results add up, with the Soviets losing a few divisions here, a few there. The usual result seems to be that they lose about 100 divisions in the first four months of the campaign, so it's pretty clear that Germany will destroy them. Japan always seems to run rampant in China. Finland actually held off the Soviets in each test, something I have never seen happen in 1.3B. I'd say the mod works.

The next step is to add the modded AI files for the USSR and China, and see how that affects things. I am worried that it will just bring back the situation I was trying to correct in the first place. I'll report back after the next batch of tests.

 

[unmerged(37444)]

I find that in all my 1936 games, russia always gets trounced like a bitch. (Germany reached mongolia on one of them)
I would love it if germany lost in one of my games.

 

[unmerged(32688)]

I've been playing games as minor powers lately (though this applies to playing as the USA just as well), and one thing that really bugs me is that it seems the German AI is totally, utterly unable to deal with the USSR. By the time you've got the units built up to actually enter the fight, you find that Germany is already doomed (by, say, September '41).

I tend to disagree with this. Yes the Germany AI tends to stalemate Soviets in the `36 scenario. But with that much time it is easy to help them break it with lots of minors.

Tac Bombers really help to break the stalemate, around 12 or so even as a minor can really help out. The problem is AI Germany and SU tend to run out of manpower, so Germany gets stuck after a while. I see the front line just go back and forth over a few provinces. Just send the Tacs in on well managed ground attack missions and over a few months you'll destroy so many the Germans will eventually advance.

Other ways, I've done it with Romania, by building alot of infantry and pushing a tiny southern front, letting Germany take the north. They got bitter peace, I went on to take Australia.
With Italy after securing Suez, come up through Baku, tactical bombers help alot. Got bitter peace.
With Spain I've done Blue Emu's sub strategy and helped Italy out, and came up through Baku with only a handful of division but 12 bombers, and again got bitter peace and again went on to take Australia.

Tac Bombers rule

 

[blah.blah.blah]

I tend to disagree with this. Yes the Germany AI tends to stalemate Soviets in the `36 scenario. But with that much time it is easy to help them break it with lots of minors.

Tac Bombers really help to break the stalemate, around 12 or so even as a minor can really help out. The problem is AI Germany and SU tend to run out of manpower, so Germany gets stuck after a while. I see the front line just go back and forth over a few provinces. Just send the Tacs in on well managed ground attack missions and over a few months you'll destroy so many the Germans will eventually advance.

Other ways, I've done it with Romania, by building alot of infantry and pushing a tiny southern front, letting Germany take the north. They got bitter peace, I went on to take Australia.
With Italy after securing Suez, come up through Baku, tactical bombers help alot. Got bitter peace.
With Spain I've done Blue Emu's sub strategy and helped Italy out, and came up through Baku with only a handful of division but 12 bombers, and again got bitter peace and again went on to take Australia.

Tac Bombers rule

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I've been playing for the allied side. That's what makes it frustrating to enter a game where germany is doomed. I am robbed of the fun of trying to defeat them.

 

[unmerged(32688)]

Oh I see. :rofl:
That is an interesting idea.

I don't know what you could do about that really except invade before then...the Germans DID historically struggle in the SU of course so at least it's somewhat realistic.

Or just declare war on the commie bastards as well if they takeover Germany. That should give you something to do.

 

[unmerged(60878)]

If you're playing the Allies and are successful early on the Germans will pull back a lot of their troops from Russia to defend against you.

For example, if you play as UK and are beating the Italians then the German AI will use a lot of troops to reinforce Italy so will have much less to fight the Soviets; this tends to result in Russia overrunning Germany quicker than you can because of their greater manpower.

 

[unmerged(49949)]

Let Germany and the Soviet Union fight each other to exhaustion while you build up to invade and then move in for the kill when you judge the time is right.

 

[Desertfox]

I`m currently playing Japan (normal difficulty) 1.3b, the AI Germans waited until spring 1942 to attack.
I decided to let the game run hands-off from that moment, to see how far Germany would come, and the Germans trashed the soviets. Bitter peace in 1944, even though Finland switched sides to the soviets. Germany even took a few Scottish provinces in 1943 or so.
The fact that as Japan, I had been continually spanking the British (taking over India, Australia, Middle East etc), and annexed USA all before I went hands-off in spring 1942, must have played in the hands of the Germans.

 

[Isegrimm]

does anyone know where the german AI files for placing uboats patrols are/is and if you edit them - eg can you change it so german AI uses it uboats in the alatantic/ caridean etc like they did in the actual war they seem to be stuck/stacked at keil etc

 

[Isegrimm]

2 questions eg playing as russia ( but generally ) does antipartisan duty IN YOUR OWN NATIONAL provinces reduse partisan etc effects? and winter attrition IN your own national provinces have much effect to worry about CHEERS

 

[MartinBG]

does antipartisan duty IN YOUR OWN NATIONAL provinces reduse partisan etc effects?

Yes