Germany seems unbeatable on multy

[jackda]

Germany seems unbeatable on HSR 2.08 multiplayer

:wacko: Tell me how to beat 143 org german troops with poor 50 or 60 orga CCCp's!?
Fortunately AI doesnt use aircraft!
So they seem to be really unbeatable against a good human player!
It s good to see AI resist against my troops but i m afraid to see what would happened if it was a human in front!!!!!!!!
I play CCCP for several years and never seen that!

I m used to have near 500 ic and almost 500 div in 41 barbarossa and my defence lines use to hold during all the war (keep Len , Moscow,Stalingrad,Roslav ,and Gomel sometimes) IN normal DOOMSDAY (i only have probs with my manpower in 43 even if i have only few unit losts)
But IN THIS MOD don t you think that 140org german troops in 44 against (even far more units) 70org CCCP s troops sounds good for the game balance on multiplayer??????

one good thing in this mod is that Ger got far less manpower than in DD (and more for the russian) and even better : now when you attack you lose MORE unit strengh! All the other things as morale are nearly the same in the mod than in DD.

BUT imagine the effect of 140org units (against 70org sov in 1944!!!!!!!when Ger troops and Sov were nearly equivalent !!!!!) with massive cas/tac airforce (i ve played a lot of multy and the russian can't have air sup until west front is open ,in all the games) all of that in HUMAN HANDS (vet players aren't as nice as AI does ) , should we have to destroy units before they lose their org ???

 

[jackda]

As exemple on May 44 Russian offensive in Bielorussia involved 1,4 million men against 1,2 ger and allies........and CCCP kicked their asses!!!!!!!!!
IMPOSSIBLE to see in this mod as Ger units has TWICE the orga of CCCP's!

 

[unmerged(52692)]

Well, IIRC, casualties on the Eastern Front in WWII where 4:1 in Germany's favor...

Tough it out, be prepared to lose ground. It's called a fighting retreat.

 

[jackda]

Well, IIRC, casualties on the Eastern Front in WWII where 4:1 in Germany's favor...

Tough it out, be prepared to lose ground. It's called a fighting retreat.

fighting retreat in 1944???????? :wacko:
i can beat the AI but my problem is about game BALANCE IN MULTIPLAYER , against a good german HUMAN player; noway you can fight against nearly TWICE inferior orga units ,it could be historical in 1941 (anyway the odd is already worst in the mod in 41) BUT IN 1944 ...............!

 

[Brasidas]

fighting retreat in 1944???????? :wacko:
i can beat the AI but my problem is about game BALANCE IN MULTIPLAYER , against a good german HUMAN player; noway you can fight against nearly TWICE inferior orga units ,it could be historical in 1941 (anyway the odd is already worst in the mod in 41) BUT IN 1944 ...............!

The mod was designed for single player, not MP.

However, many of the free unit events are ai-specific. In the case of a human-human German-SU face-off, there would be a different unit balance from the one you are describing. Likewise, there would be a different balance in an AI Germany vs AI SU situation.

 

[jackda]

The mod was designed for single player, not MP.

However, many of the free unit events are ai-specific. In the case of a human-human German-SU face-off, there would be a different unit balance from the one you are describing. Likewise, there would be a different balance in an AI Germany vs AI SU situation.

Unfortunately ,i had the same idea and when i changed side (during my game) playing as Germany the same advantages apply (140 orga .....)
So mutiplayer game on normal/normal would be the same , Germany far too strong (even if far less manpower , you still can beat AI but a good German player.................) Wich AI events do boost his orga so much???

 

[Fafner]

Germany is in a very strong position, but when the allies
( human played ) coordinate their attacks, then the german power
is divided among many different theatres. Scandinavia,mainland,russia,
africa. Germany will advance, but slowly. When USA enters the war the
allies can counterattack. ( Navy, Airforce, later invasion )

When you start with germany computer-played, then the bonuses
stay even if you take over.

 

[jackda]

Germany is in a very strong position, but when the allies
( human played ) coordinate their attacks, then the german power
is divided among many different theatres. Scandinavia,mainland,russia,
africa. Germany will advance, but slowly. When USA enters the war the
allies can counterattack. ( Navy, Airforce, later invasion )

Well....
1/ let's take the name : HISTORICAL Stony Road
2/ IRL (even if it hurts some people ) SOVIETS WON THE WAR : first counterattack (didn't need the allies for that) in nov 41/since then :
4/5 OF THE WHOLE GERMAN ARMY/PLANES WAS ON THE EASTERN
FRONT (especially true in 1944) . Lot of people consider that USA save the world ........but they fought against 30 div (2 panzerdiv!!!!!!!!) ,and they where forced to the defensive during the Ardennes offensive (they even ask Russian to attack earlier)!!!!!! Weaker red army=more German troops on western front= ........NO DDAY!
3/Economy and HUGE airforce (flying fortress....) was the main affirmation of the USA power. It shortened the war .....but most of german soldiers were killed or wounded by the red army (who s lost itself almost 10 million soldiers!!!)



3/Contradiction between 1 and 2 and....... what you say

 

[unmerged(45331)]

Why don't you try playing HSR as Germany? You might find that it is not so easy to beat Soviet Union.

 

[unmerged(19841)]

Your are right with the name insteed of historical,it might be called very,very,challenging...it's made for better players to get a challenging
game when playing against the AI,if you were to play as germany you would if that the red army will seem almost impossible.witch would be very historical.

 

[jackda]

Your are right with the name insteed of historical,it might be called very,very,challenging...it's made for better players to get a challenging
game when playing against the AI,if you were to play as germany you would if that the red army will seem almost impossible.witch would be very historical.

hehe ,must be that, maybe i m a bad player , anyway this "argue" permit to not argue for game BALANCE IN THE HISTORICAL ENGAGEMENT BETWEEN GERMANY AND CCCP IN MULTIPLAYER.
Maybe you should try to learn how to play with CCCP against GERMAN VET players......this way and this way only , u should understand what i meant...

"very,very,challenging" game against an AI!!!!!!! :rofl:

 

[jackda]

For more explanations:http://www.stonyroad.de/forum/showthread.php?t=6456

 

[Fafner]

...
2/ IRL (even if it hurts some people ) SOVIETS WON THE WAR : first counterattack (didn't need the allies for that) in nov 41/since then :
4/5 OF THE WHOLE GERMAN ARMY/PLANES WAS ON THE EASTERN
FRONT (especially true in 1944) . Lot of people consider that USA save the world ........but they fought against 30 div (2 panzerdiv!!!!!!!!) ,and they where forced to the defensive during the Ardennes offensive (they even ask Russian to attack earlier)!!!!!! Weaker red army=more German troops on western front= ........NO DDAY!

...

Soviets had a great contribution for the victory of the allies, but:
1.Early in the war they received tons of supply, thousands of tanks and aircrafts from the allies during their factories were transfered to the east.
2.Most of the Luftwaffe fought against the allies. The Geschwader who
remained had no new aircraft. So the red airforce had a much easier job.
Ever seen a 262 over Kiev?
3.I don´t know where do you get your numbers of german divisons in the west... Midst 44 there were roughly 60 Divisons on the western front
( about 10 armoured divisions!!!!!!!)Without AOK, independent units,RSI and
other axis units.

BUT: What have this statistics to do with the MP question?

 

[Kedwinbi]

This mod is great if you want a challenge vs an AI. Yes, man, you eard me good !

You can do a WC with Germany before 43 in VH with vanilla DD ? Try this mod in grofaz and come back here

The events helps a lot AIs and the difficulty level makes it very hard to keep a decent TC. I don't play anymore vanilla HoI in SP (boring and poor AI), only in MP (and I found it too unbalanced in some way imo).

In SP I play mods that will help AI and HSR is a nice one with his events.

Btw, if you play soviets in VH (grofaz), you can reproduce a very similar historic situation (lose ground close to moscow and leningrad in 41 leaving a pocket or 2 that will hold for a long time, counter a little during winter to secure some, be smashed again in 42 etc...) Well only if you are good, otherwise you will lose... :rofl: Yes dude, lose vs AI :rofl:

 

[jackda]

This mod is great if you want a challenge vs an AI. Yes, man, you eard me good !

You can do a WC with Germany before 43 in VH with vanilla DD ? Try this mod in grofaz and come back here

The events helps a lot AIs and the difficulty level makes it very hard to keep a decent TC. I don't play anymore vanilla HoI in SP (boring and poor AI), only in MP (and I found it too unbalanced in some way imo).

In SP I play mods that will help AI and HSR is a nice one with his events.

Btw, if you play soviets in VH (grofaz), you can reproduce a very similar historic situation (lose ground close to moscow and leningrad in 41 leaving a pocket or 2 that will hold for a long time, counter a little during winter to secure some, be smashed again in 42 etc...) Well only if you are good, otherwise you will lose... :rofl: Yes dude, lose vs AI :rofl:

hi again! you re on all fronts hehe
I meant,i only play on multi (since HOI2,most of time) in this game because ,FOR ME playing an AI isnt some kind of "good challenge" REGARDLESS if i win or lose against it.
Of course most of players,sorry,I ,could certainly lose against a full EPO (for IC/combat bonus etc...) AI ,but where is the interrest of it? I even prefer to lose against BAD HUMAN players! That was what i meant,i m not interrested with playing an AI anymore....forgive me .Except for testing THAT S WHY
i ve created these topic.If i thought i was superman i don't think i would have ask people to share their experience about this subject with me.
Cordialement

 

[jackda]

Soviets had a great contribution for the victory of the allies, but:
1.Early in the war they received tons of supply, thousands of tanks and aircrafts from the allies during their factories were transfered to the east.
2.Most of the Luftwaffe fought against the allies. The Geschwader who
remained had no new aircraft. So the red airforce had a much easier job.
Ever seen a 262 over Kiev?
3.I don´t know where do you get your numbers of german divisons in the west... Midst 44 there were roughly 60 Divisons on the western front
( about 10 armoured divisions!!!!!!!)Without AOK, independent units,RSI and
other axis units.

BUT: What have this statistics to do with the MP question?

1.About Lend lease:according to most of historians it wasn't a CRUCIAL thing for CCCP:
Tanks : Most of time rubbish and out of date (even if you don't compare with T34.......)

Supply: it s true but only for light materials and little industry,usefull right but ,IMHO,the best allies done for Sov was to lend them A LOT of trucks that helped them for sure ,but maybe less than their thousands of T34!

2.Sure the late German turbojets were on western front.But less than 300 ,even (!) against Soviets, i don't think it could have help Hitler to take Moscow........

3.Sorry but i think,even if i know i m french and i shouldn't talk like that etc...etc...,USA had a "great contribution" for the victory against GERMANY
.....CCCP won it ,million deads (german soldiers too) tell it to us...
AOK in 44???(maybe i m wrong but africakorps was disolved in late 43?)
When i m talking about west front i should have say in France,sorry for this ;
everybody is free to think if it change something (even if 70 div were on the west ....still 4/5 of Ger against sov).

BUT: What have this statistics to do with the MP question?[/QUOTE]
Well i was trying to explain why ,because of history,Soviets ,IMHO,couldn t be so weak in HSR 2.08......and talks lead us to here

Hope you've understood me got prob with it those days...

 

[Fafner]

...

BUT: What have this statistics to do with the MP question?

Well i was trying to explain why ,because of history,Soviets ,IMHO,couldn t be so weak in HSR 2.08......and talks lead us to here

Hope you've understood me got prob with it those days... [/QUOTE]

-I think at least the aircraft from the comvois were crucial. Early ion the war no sowjet model existed, that could really fight the Luftwaffe.
-Not in taking Moscow, but in preventing the red airfleet to attack gróund targets ( me 262 was just a example, I think the FW 190 d might have done
the job )
-Not AK. AOK is a command unit that manages the reserves in Germany.Was it: allgemeines OberKommando ? Hm Im not shure.
And I don`t count axis minor divisions, just regular field or fully
deployed reserve divisions. When you say 80 % were in the east
than there had to be 350 !!!!! FULL Wehrmachtsdivisions ( in 1944 ( No axis minor )). Most of the divisions where ghost divisions with no heavy equipment
and undermanned.
Where do you get that numbers from?

Im playing Stonyroad to experience if I could change history.

 

[unmerged(19841)]

1
3.USA had a "great contribution" for the victory against GERMANY
.....CCCP won it ,million deads (german soldiers too)
BUT: What have this statistics to do with the MP question
Well i was trying to explain why ,because of history,Soviets ,IMHO,couldn t be so weak in HSR 2.08......and talks lead us to here
Hope you've understood me got prob with it those days...

I think that Most of the bonus's and such are for the AI only,so in a MP game, it should be much more balanced.Have you tried to play MP it yet?(I have not so I can't really tell 100% that this is correct).

 

[unmerged(19841)]

Jackda,

I don't think people are under estimating what the C.C.C.P did in the WW2.there are just pointing out that it was a two front war for germany,and that the bombing that the u.s. and brits really helped grind to a halt the ability for the germans to keep up in maintaining there armed forces.that fact that Hilter sent 3 million troops to conquer to country that hand a population of 200 million.it was remarkable that he did as much as he did.

I know for me is one of the reasons I enjoy playing WW2 games.it all of the "what If's ".with so many thing the could go etherway,but one thing is with out question the resources,manpower advantage that the allied had over the axis was huge.

So will the red army pushing to berlin,the german army was not what it was earller before the german IC was strained and unable to support its army,with suppies,weapons,and manpower.(as posted above many of the divisons were understrength).

That being said,it is my belief(and just my guess) that even with out a D-day invasion,the soveits would have taken berlin sooner or later because of there resources and manpower advantage.IIRC Stalin had figure out that he could loses 7 soldiers for every one german soldiers,and simply run them out of manpower,and win the war.

 

[unmerged(59283)]

thats effevtively what he did do, it was my understanding that everytime they met in battle the germans were forced to retreat simply because they kept running out of ammo, at every battle they gave the russians a pasting but were forced to retreat due to the MP ratios.