Grand Campaign questions start to finish for the newbie

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #16 -- Colonization Questions
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Hey everyone---long time no talk on my part. We are in the midst of our short semester at the college that I teach at (5 weeks) and it's simply crazy. I finally, tonight, got the ability to even look at the game. Of course it took me about 45 minutes just to re-orient myself to what I was doing previously. If you still have time, I have a few more questions.
Off course we have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I'm still not sure I understand what to do with the trader/colonization issue. Let me say what I think I know and you can correct me. I get the option of sending EITHER a trader or a colonist. When I click on the province in question, it shows me a percentage of success? So, if that is correct, it looks like traders are always higher than colonists. Correct?
It's often the case, but not always. Both probabilities take into accounts different variables, e.g. hostility of natives, size of natives, a variable on difficulty of colonization/tradeposting in the province, number of colonies/TPs you have and monarch's ADM-skill, a number reflecting how many colonization attempts you've made, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Then, what exactly is the strategy here? Just to see how it went, I ended up sending traders to 2 places and a colonist to another place. Let's see, two of the locations were in upper Canada and one was slightly east of Isle Royale (already owned by England). Two (one trader, one colonist) failed and the furtherest north was successful. So, obviously, this is not a guaranteed thing. So, is there any strategy?
There're different strategies, but it mostly depend on the location, on the country you play and the DP-sliders, on the "state of the world". These 'strategies' are rather tips and guidelines.

First, don't develop too many provinces at a time. When you develop more TPs or colonies than your monarch's ADM skill, the chances to establish further TPs or colonies decreases, quite fast.
Second, develop easiest provinces first, to improve your colonization attempts (it's the value I spoke off before). In the beginning, if you have a nearby conquistador, place it in the province before you send the first colonist, to improve the chances (conquistadors improve the colonization probabilities by a value equal to their Maneuver * 3).
Third, don't colonize Africa (except South Africa), there's a huge growth penalty, and the provinces are not worth sending 40 colonists before self-sufficiency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Does a trading post help things?
Yes, it could. If the probability is higher for TP than for colonization, and you want to colonize, placing a TP first will help you. Each level of TP or colony add 5% to the chances, and a TP is less costly to put, if it helps you to achieve a colony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Do you just keep sending people in the hopes that it works eventually?
Sometimes, yes. Perseverance always pays. Don't hesitate to send two, three or four times a colonist to the same province.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Should you send an army somehow and try to destroy the natives?
If natives revolt, an army will fight them. If successful, your settlement won't be damaged, but you risk wiping out the natives. 1000 infantry should be enough to keep in check most natives, without killing them.
But sending an army risks triggering a revolt. So, only send one if aggressivity is above 1 or 2.
But if the colonization chances are really low, consider to wipe high-aggressivity natives before colonization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Don't I usually want them on my side?
Yes, because they add to the population once it gets to 900. And population matters for production income and trade values, and you'll get more money from this than from taxes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Where exactly is "Stadacone" sheridan? That was one of your other suggestions in your core instructions.
Saint-Laurent's mouth. All (most of) the provinces from this to the south are extremely easy to colonize. Put TP in the northernmost provinces. Mind the aggressivity of natives in, notably, Connecticut, Bangor, Penobscot, Maine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Obviously, the aggressiveness of the natives is an issue, the more aggressive then the lower the %. Still, not sure about any strategy.
Yes, indeed. It's one of the factors IIRC. It's also why it could be needed to wipe the natives if you can't get a decent chance otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Am I trying to just land people where I can? I mean, I'm not sure how some places become available while others do not. As I am wandering the North American coastline, certain places are now open to me while others remain in the white (even though I can see the coastline).
As long as you have colonists, send them. The first thing to do is to "book" as many provinces as possible, preferably coastal provinces, to "book" inner lands.
If you get a conquistador, you can land it on TI coastal provinces, to explore it. And naval tech 18 will make all your ships automatically discover adjacent TI-coastal provinces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Sad news, my explorer dude died. Am I just screwed here for now?
Yes, no more exploration for now. You have to wait until you get another one, or a conquistador.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
On the tech news, I am WAY AHEAD of everyone else in naval (most are at 5 or 6, even England, Portugal and Spain) while I am at 11. Does that hurt me to be that far ahead?
The far-ahead penalty is based on the date, not on the tech of other countries. Look at the cost to get next level. If it greatly decreases on January 1st, then you're far-ahead, and you should focus your research on other techs. An extra level of infra and trade would be useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Can I attack England's colonies or TPs to take them? Should I do that (I know it starts a war) or do I just colonize around them and not worry about it.
Yes, of course. TPs and colonies (under 1000) won't get you BB, so better grab them early on. The best is to concentrate on lvl 5-7 colonies, to spare you the need to send as many colonists. Moreover, they'll automatically convert to you with the first colonist.
It doesn't start a war, you need to DoW England. But a CB can easily be got (especially if there's a CoT in Anglia).
It's especially important to get the control of all the coastal provinces, to make sure nobody will colonize the continent. Close the northermost provinces (in Bay of Baffin IIRC), and in the south to Matagorda (or near it) ant the TI. Build fortresses only in coastal provinces (and build them fast in Louisiana/Florida, because Spain could get there and steal them thanks to the Treaty of Tordesillas).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
OK, I know I'm being repetitive, but I just want to get my feet on the ground about what steps to take here in the colonization effort. lawkeeper, Robin, sheridan (its your strategy that I'm following)--give me the directions. I don't want to get too far ahead and miss crucial steps ("no silly carl, you should always get a TP to level 3 before sending a colonists" or "you must make sure your Innovation is back toward the middle before sending a trader" or whatever).
I wouldn't call you "silly", just "not yet veteran".
The reason to develop TPs to lvl 3 has nothing to do with the sending of a colonist, but has to do with the limit on number of unfinished colonies/TPs you can have. Each category is accounted separately, and if one is higher than your monarch's ADM-skill, you'll get penalties on the implanting of new ones. A colony is finished when it becomes a colonial city (1000 pop), and a TP when it reaches lvl 3.

In NA, and anywhere else, think about conquering the pagans. You can DoW them, and force-annex them, for no BB. And conversion chances are high (and will change their culture too). Once converted, they're fine places.
But don't mess with Navajo, they're too poor…
__________________
Daniel A

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I'm still not sure I understand what to do with the trader/colonization issue.

On the tech news, I am WAY AHEAD of everyone else in naval (most are at 5 or 6, even England, Portugal and Spain) while I am at 11. Does that hurt me to be that far ahead?

Hi carlec!
Colonisation is good. If you are not in desperate need of money for something else then go colonising and try to maximise the number of colonists you get each year. As a simple tip: only send colonists, no traders. It is possible to construct examples where traders are more beneficial but that is for grade 2

Naval tech 11 is perfect. Immediately stop investing in naval. That tech gave you a special ability. Use that. Then after a two (?) years hover over your number of colonists on the top row and you will understand.

I believe the number of colonies you can have without incurring a success rate penalty for your next new colony is equal to your monarch's ADM skill. A normal monarch has 5 in ADM skill, that means if you have five colonies you will get a penalty to your success chance on colonly #6.

Homework for tomorrow: This magic number of colonies may increase/decrease during a monarch's reign: when is that?

Good luck!

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #17
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Like right now, I'm trying to get judges (I think that is right, increases taxes, lowers revolt) in every province, but I'm not sure how fast to move on this.
Put them quick, you'll make more money. But until they cost more than 4000 (IIRC), manufactories are more worthy than judges, benefit-relative. So you maybe should rush to build a couple more manus before promoting judges, if the cost of each manu is still low.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
And I still have those 4 Spanish provinces on the Med and I'm trying to decide how important level 2 fortress is. I don't really care to keep them if it really came down to it (still the sheridan--no war in Europe strategy--not trying to control the world here). Do I spend money there or just let it slide?
Keep them at least until the end of the Wars of Religion. Now you've got them, better use them. Build fortresses on the boundaries, first, and if you have the money you can upgrade every european province at least to lvl 2 (or 3 later, but not higher, due to huge costs ; reserve most important fortresses to key provinces and fixed/stable boundaries).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
And, should I spend more money on ships to ensure colonization or does that not matter?
You mean, building more ships ? Or invest more in naval tech ?
None of them help with the colonization, but they'll help you achieve naval superiority in case of war with other colonial nations (England, Spain, Portugal, and others). France was the most powerful nation in Europe, its only weakness was its colonies. On the continent, you don't need to fear anyone, and if you sink enemy fleets, you'll have plenty of time to take control of their colonies.
IMO, 200 warships should be more than needed, with a couple of transports too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
If I did establish a trading post, can I send troops over? Should I send troops over? If I did, can they "see" neighboring provinces?
They won't see in adjacent provinces that are still TI to you. But you can send troops in the TP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Oh, back to England, do you think I should strike quickly on their territories or wait for later, till they've up'ed them to the higher levels you mentioned? Right now, obviously, they don't have lots of troops there. This is a question of time like I was saying above. I don't have a feel for how much time I have. I mean, if you say "you don't need to worry about any other nation till 1600" then, okay I can tell what's happening. But if I need to eliminate England from North American mucho pronto, then I want to know that too.
I'd say, eliminate them early on. It'll be a lot easier if you prevent them from even establishing themselves on the continent. For that, you must achieve total ownership of all the coasts (at least, those that can lead to the Great Lakes).
England won't be quick to colonize, but it could be an annoyance. Especially if you also try to colonize other areas (which I definitely advice you to do - e.g. India, South Africa, Indonesia, carribean, various islands, all very rich/important).

__________________
Daniel A

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
carlec's answers to Daniel A's quiz in previous post Due to stability? Or during war?

Due to events! Events that change the ADM skill of your monarch. The max number of colonists you can have without getting a penalty for starting a new one is your monarch's ADM skill which can be seen in the save file [or in the monarch screen].

Since you look around and just see expenses, I will give you a hint. Stop building fortresses. You'll need fortresses almost as rare as you need TPs.

As a newbie I built fortresses in every province I owned and when I got the right to expand them I did, in every province. Having played a couple of GC I understood what little value there is in them when you play SP. (They say MP is entirely different). Watch out for this. There has been advices on this board to build fortresses in even colonies in Australia and that is totally absurd.

In a normal 400 years GC I build a few fortresses and that is mainly for two reasons

1. I want to increase the number of soldiers I can have in the province without getting attrition (say 10-20 fortresses and we are talking about WC games here so there are a lot of provinces)

2. It is early in the game and I am going to fight a certain nation that I believe will siege a specific province (especially a province were winter occurs). But I want to be quite certain that it is this province he will siege. (Say 2-3 fortresses)

The very simple advice to a newbie is: build no fortresses at all. For sure, your opponent will take the province quicker but that is not so important because the time it will take for you to take it back will also be quicker. (An exception to this is when you increase your fortress and your opponent's siege ended in your fortress shrinking which may happen, then you will have spent say a 100-150d for a win of say 3 months longer siege for him of a single province, which is peanuts as you understand).

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #18 (COLONIZATION FOCUS)
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
the natives took over. Do I send in an army to deal with them? If I don't, can I still send colonists? Should I not worry about it?
You need to send an army or else you won't be able to send colonists anymore.

Quote:
Am I correct in assuming that until I develop a city on its own, then I'd have to supply troops and such across the vast ocean.
Yes. You can only raise troops in cities, and not all - if the tax value of the city is too low, you won't be able to raise any troops there either.

Quote:
And I just keep doing that till each becomes a city on its own (6 successful colonists, right?).
That depends. 7 with old patches, 10 with new patches, one fewer if there are natives in the colony. edit 1.08--it takes the province getting 1000 population. For most provinces, that then takes 10 colonists at least (not counting failed attempts). In some cases, due to growth, previous traders in Trading Posts or remaining natives, you can achieve 1000 colonists in LESS than 10 colonists. I have colonized an Indian province in 6 colonists, other places in 8 or 9 colonists, so it varies.

Quote:
We are getting close to issues in the Netherlands, aren't we. When can I release part of them to vassel status?
1559.

Quote:
When I release them, they can't just get into trouble in other wars can they? Or can they?
Sure they can, why not, they are an independent country after all.
__________________
lawkeeper

Good think I waited a few minutes to answer : robin74 does it fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Since troops can't see into the unknown (and that seems rather silly to me, that if they are on the ground, they could at least explore one province per year), then sending a bunch is a waste right?
You don't need much troops there. 1000 infantry per colony should be enough to keep the natives in check (without wiping them out). Once a colonial city is achieved, there's no need to ferry troops anymore.

For the explorations, try to steal portuguese and spanish maps, and take some of the rich Antillas or Caraibbeans. But you need to let a garrison there (to avoid that these damn' papists take your hard-build colonies). Sugar rocks, not as much as chinaware and spices, but it's still a big income.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
OK, so I need to keep sending colonists to all 3 locations, right? And hope to get another explorer soon (it's 1530 I think). And I just keep doing that till each becomes a city on its own (6 successful colonists, right?).
Apart of the number of colonists, it's it. Build, build, build. It's best to focus on a few colonies at a time, to decrease the effect of negative growth, and because of the limit on the number of colonies/TPs. Building a minimal fort is also a great asset out of Europe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Spain annexed Aragon and I'm sure Navarre is next. I have a feeling she's going to look at me after that, so I'm trying to raise our relations high soon so she'll leave me alone.
Don't fear them. France is richer, and you can have big armies, bigger than them, even while the AI cheats on support limits. Take Bearn when Navarre gets DA, there'll be an event to give it french culture (or is it in AGCEEP only ? ).
Moreover, if/when you make a war, make sure to take their capital, to get their maps. And round your peace proposal by asking some colonies if you can get there.
Same goes for Portugal, but it doesn't urge either. But in their case, a good move is to take the Azores and other Atlantic isles (Cape Verde notably).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
We are getting close to issues in the Netherlands, aren't we. When can I release part of them to vassel status? Is it a set time? I'm hoping to keep Milan as vassel long enough and diplo-annex them so that there will be a spot in the alliance for the Netherlands. WHen I release them, they can't just get into trouble in other wars can they? Or can they?
Hehe, that's the way to go. Keep a close look on your vassals. As I said, France is powerful of itself, so you don't really need allies. Better take as allies your vassals, to protect them (with the ultimate level of protection being diplo-annexation).
With Netherlands, keep very high relations, to avoid "losing" them. You'll have to wait until the Edict of Tolerance event (not the french one, but the game's one), around mid-XVIIth. It's a lot of time. BTW, remind me who owns which dutch province ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
In the end, (back to colonies), you are basically setting up another nation aren't you? I need to colonize (how long are we talking about---50 years, 100 years) NA till I have several connected provinces (I remember that much lawkeeper) that can, in essence, be self-sufficient in regards to troops and such. Then, they are going to basically keep moving west, running into native groups that I'm going to attack, annex (just like I did in the beginning with Brittany, Provence, etc...right?) and then keep moving on. So thus, I am growing bigger in NA (not really in Europe to stay out of wars there) and in the end, I am growing a large nation with a good economy.
Exactly. Foremost, you need to secure the coasts (east, south but also north around the passage between Terra Incognitas), even before getting after all the pagans. Take Lenapes, Creeks and Cherokees first (as they have coastal provinces), and go progressively after the others (according to your missionaries'rate).
Colonize the coffee-producing provinces early, they're blessed too.

Colonization won't stop until the end of the game. It's a dynamic process, you're strenghtenning your country permanently. How many colonists do you get annually ? Have you already built a shipyard ?

Could you please make an update, with the date, your boundaries, tech levels, DP-sliders, BB, treasury/income, allies/vassals, and what major upheavals have happened in Europe (a screenshot would be a fabulous idea ) ? It'll help figuring which advices are best (and avoid us saying dangerous stupidities given context).

 

[ProfCC]

CURRENT SETTING FROM CARLEC

There are pics in the original thread if you care to go look.

It is July 1530 and Francis I is on the throne. He is 4 (diplo), 5 (admin), 5 (military). France controls all of her core territory, most of the Netherlands and part of the Iberian Penisula (which you can see from the map—hopefully). We have discovered North America and currently are working on 3 provinces---Roanoake (Lvl 1 colony—CURRENTLY CONTROLLED BY NATIVES), Minto (lvl 1 TP) and Nain (lvl 2 TP). In case you are new reading these posts and haven’t gone back to read all 6 pages, I am following [thread=113891]sheridan’s France strategy [/thread] in which the focus in NOT on Europe, but on North America (although I will admit to thinking that I should take Spain out, but that’s for another post I suppose).

My developments are as follows:
Land Tech—Lvl 10 (a bit behind the other larger nations, but within 1 level)
Naval Tech—Lvl 11 (WAY, WAY ahead of everyone else—most on lvl 5)
Trade Tech---Lvl 4
Infrastructure –Lvl 4 (and this is where I am focusing my money right now in order to get Governors)

I have built the Shipyard [I had no idea why I was doing this, but now I see that in the location, you can now build multiple ships at once rather than one at a time] in Gasgone.
I have 2 FAAs and 2-3 Refineries (though I had 2 burn down within 10 years)—Boo
I am in an alliance with Austria, Milan and Portugal. (I can or cannot add another country? Anyone??)
Milan is my lone vassal (I had Genoa, but they declared war on Milan)

I have RMs with England, Austria, Portugal and Scotland.
I have TAs with England, Portugal, Sweden and Denmark.
I have Military Access with England, Portugal and Denmark.

Merchants—I get 4.6/year (2COT,1Coastal,2Stability,.4Domestic)
Settlers—3/year (+2 Catholic, +1 Shipyard)
Diplomats—4/year (+1 Royal Diplomacy, +1 war, +2 catholic)
Missionaries—1.8 year (.8 domestic, +1catholic)

I DO HAVE A SLIDER MOVE TO MAKE---Please give me a good suggestion here. See the picture to see how I’m sitting right now.

Income: Tax 56 (x1.00); Goods 84 (34%); Trading income 29 (40%)

In trade, I have merchants in the following CoTs, listed in order of where I have the most money coming in, with total income and France’s take: Andalusia-388(38); Ile de France-298(29); Tago-435(26); Flanders-155(15); Novograd-228(13); Thrace-150(12); Liguria 193(7).
These other CoTs are the ones that have the greatest income, but I have merchants there: Malacca (331); Ganges (450); Shanghai (479); Kutch (331).

I freely admit that I feel as if I have no clue what I am doing in that arena. I have read the FAQs and also rhyko’s guide, but I still feel clueless. I would put it on auto send, but everyone says not to. Anyway, I can’t tell if I should attempt to send to those far off sites (all 4 CoTs are 24g to send, while those close by are 7).

Army: I can support 184,000, but only have 173000 plus 62 cannon. I am able to gain 69 soldiers a year. Currently, I have fully double the army of any other country.

Navy: I can support 136 vessels. I have 14 warships, 12 Galleys and 8 transports. Spain is the leading navy with about 45 ships, followed by China (I can’t see Portugal’s numbers for some reason). England has a very small navy of about 15 ships.

OK, to diplomacy and other nations: As stated above, I am in an alliance with Milan (my vassel that I want to diplo-annex soon, you’ll soon see why below), Austria and Portugal. Out of nowhere, I’ve been drug into 2-3 wars due to my allies, but that’s the price we pay for alliances.

Current wars: vs. Genoa (Genoa attacked Milan and forced me to choose vassel-ally over simple vassel). If I can pull it off before Milan backs out, I’m trying to take Genoa’s last outstanding province (the Crimea—I have no idea how they got it, but I have to take it in order to ever force-annex).

Vs. Venice, Poland and the Papal States (Milan started this one, another reason why I want to annex Milan ASAP so she’ll stop making stupid wars).

My allies are fighting Croatia, Lithuania and Sweden. I got a white peace soon enough, though with the war against Genoa and the Crimea, Lithuania is right there and it probably would have been nice for me to be able to start attacking them. Anyway. . .

My Main enemies and their allies:
Spain (-101)—alliance with Naples and Navarre (I already have Bearn).
England (+108)—no allies, currently in a war with the Lanape in the New World
Scotland (-1)—alliance with Munster, Cologne and Genoa
Bavaria (-197)—alliance with Friesland, Hannover, Grimes, and Croatia
Denmark (+25)—alliance with Magdeburg
Sweden (-194)—alliance with Lithuania
Poland (-53)—alliance with Venice and the Papal States
Russia (-137)—no alliances, but in a RM with England
Ottoman Empire (-200)—alliance with Algiers
Mameluks (-200)—alliance with Persia and The Hedjaz

In non-European diplomacy and issues---
England seems to have spread far into North America. She has colonies for sure on Isle Royale (regular city), Placentia (lvl 3 TP), Wabana (lvl 1 colony) and it looks like they have 3-5 other colonies (if you look at the map, there are hints of red around several locations). Plus they are in that war with the Lenape, so I think they are close to my Roanoke colony.

Denmark controls Iceland and Greenland and doesn’t seem to be in NA. I think the Creeks are still in their home and I see no trace of Spain or Portugal.

Finally, to lawkeeper’s direct question about The Netherlands.

I (France) control the following Dutch provinces: Flanders, Zeeland, Holland and Geldre
Austria controls: Brabant and Luxembourg (which I know is German, but still)
Friesland is still independent.

Alrighty then, that’s the current status. Here’s what I think needs to happen on the tactical level all the while running the grand strategy of colonies. I need to wait till the RM with England ends and then declare war (or perhaps do something to tick them off anyway) to take their NA provinces. Can I correctly assume that I’ll probably have to invade the island again to gain a large enough warscore to take their places? If they have too many, I’m sure I can’t take all of them in one fell swoop, can I? Since I have MA with them, I can see that they have lots of armies on the island. Invading would seem to be very hard. And Scotland doesn’t like me, so having them fighting for/with me won’t happen.

AND, as stated way back up at the top, I think that perhaps it might be in my best interest to fight with Spain. That way I can invade Madrid and get their maps and take control of the penisula. If I’m going to give away the Netherlands (that includes Flanders too doesn’t it), then I was thinking replacing their income would be important.

Last immediate question, you can’t do anything to change culture can you? I mean, missionaries is only for religion. I mean, I’ve had Flanders since the early 1400s, so almost 100 years. But, that won’t help me when the rebellions start, right? I was just thinking that maybe holding them all that long would somehow love me enough not to rebel and stay. I can see Geldre not (they hated me from the start anyway), but Flanders has been with me for a long time. In any case, just curious.

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #19 (MORE ON COLONIZING)
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Last immediate question, you can’t do anything to change culture can you?
In Europe - not really. In the colonies, the provinces will change the culture once the nationalism is over.

Quote:
Colonies/TPs seem to fail about 2/3rds of the time (1530s)--does that sound about right or is there something else I can do to increase my odds?
Read the colonization FAQ. The probability of success is displayed when you send a colonist. How high it is varies accross provinces, and you should be able to find several with 50-60%. Getting rid of natives helps (but then you need one colonist more and the natives won't add to the city once you reach the city level). Other than placing a conquistador or an explorer, I don't really think you can do much to increase chances.

Quote:
Also, all of a sudden all of my non-French provinces have gotten a lot higher in revolt %.
Are you at war?
Hover over the revolt risk in the province screen - it will tell you what causes the risk.

Quote:
Based on robin's response above, I was expecting the dutch revolts to start in the 1550s. I can now make Flanders a vassel, but it would only include Flanders. I was thinking that I could release all of them at once in one larger nation---isn't that what happens in the 1559 event?
You will be able to release Holland in 1559. It's not tied to any event, it's just a set date when you are able to do so. When you do, you let all four provinces go. And the Dutch Nobility event happens in 1560.

Quote:
Don't the revolts go down every decade?
Not quite.
If you conquer a province that is not your core, there will be an extra +3% modifier to the revolt risk due to nationalism. It may cause positive revolt risk or not, depending on other factors. This nationalism factor goes down by a point each 10 years, and in 30 years it disappears. If the culture of the province varies from the original culture, then it will revert to your state culture, too.

Quote:
England turning Protestant---is there any possibility that they WON'T go protestant?
About 5% it will stay Catholic in the historical 1534 event, and even if it does there is always a chance it will convert by itself. I don't think I have ever seen England stay Catholic.
__________________
lawkeeper
Ok, thank you carlec, I see more clearly now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I am in an alliance with Austria, Milan and Portugal. (I can or cannot add another country? Anyone??)
Milan is my lone vassal (I had Genoa, but they declared war on Milan)

I have RMs with England, Austria, Portugal and Scotland.
I have TAs with England, Portugal, Sweden and Denmark.
I have Military Access with England, Portugal and Denmark.
You have one remaining "slot" in your alliance. If I were you, I wouldn't go for England nor Russia : you'll eventually (see it robin, no mistake this time ) want to take the english colonies. Rather soon in fact. I'd advise a war against them, preferably just after having invited a fourth ally (see next paragraph for the ally). Go take London (to get the maps), and drop a few small armies in the colonies. Take everything, because you don't want to let them build them up. They have no allies for now, and most of the majors are already in other alliances, so even if England joins them, since they're not the leader of the alliance, they won't get any other ally. So, as soon as your other wars are finished and your economy is back at a good point, go for england.

For the ally, you have the choice. Either you force-vassalize Genoa again, and you invite them in your alliance, aiming to diplo-annex them in a few decades. Or you invite someone else : Russia is too far away to really matter (and you risk being called to wars too far away too) ; Tuscany, Siena and Modena seem available : invite Tuscany, diplo-vassalize them (if possible). The choice of ally depends on your goal about them : vassalize-annex, or help in wars (whether direct help, or insurance against DoW).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I DO HAVE A SLIDER MOVE TO MAKE---Please give me a good suggestion here. See the picture to see how I’m sitting right now.
All the sliders are pretty open. I'd go for narrowminded (to get more colonists), or free subject/centralization/plutocracy, to get higher income.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I freely admit that I feel as if I have no clue what I am doing in that arena. I have read the FAQs and also rhyko’s guide, but I still feel clueless. I would put it on auto send, but everyone says not to. Anyway, I can’t tell if I should attempt to send to those far off sites (all 4 CoTs are 24g to send, while those close by are 7).
IMO, wait a bit more to send to those faraway CoTs. Competition is rather hot there, and your TE is not that high. And don't despair, trade is probably the hardest part of the game, and you can almost never know for sure if you could have done better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Army: I can support 184,000, but only have 173000 plus 62 cannon. I am able to gain 69 soldiers a year. Currently, I have fully double the army of any other country.

Navy: I can support 136 vessels. I have 14 warships, 12 Galleys and 8 transports. Spain is the leading navy with about 45 ships, followed by China (I can’t see Portugal’s numbers for some reason). England has a very small navy of about 15 ships.
Ok, you don't need more troops, focus yourself on building more ships (not too many, and preferably wait until your aristocracy has decreased a bit, for now the individual cost of every ship should be around 64d, right ?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
OK, to diplomacy and other nations: As stated above, I am in an alliance with Milan (my vassel that I want to diplo-annex soon, you’ll soon see why below), Austria and Portugal. Out of nowhere, I’ve been drug into 2-3 wars due to my allies, but that’s the price we pay for alliances.
Indeed. Austria's and Portugal's help can matter, as long as you don't let them fight alone. With France by now, you should be able to do without any ally, but it's more risky, so endure the wars, and take every occasion to better your position (grabbing lone provinces in defensive wars or colonies/TPs, force-vassalizing in other cases, etc). Without alliance, you can't diplo-annex (I know you're following sheridan's focus on NA strategy, but some provinces are just too good to overlook ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Current wars: vs. Genoa (Genoa attacked Milan and forced me to choose vassel-ally over simple vassel). If I can pull it off before Milan backs out, I’m trying to take Genoa’s last outstanding province (the Crimea—I have no idea how they got it, but I have to take it in order to ever force-annex).
They start with it. But it's greek culture, orthodox (probably), and not overly rich, so remote as it is, I wouldn't take it. It'll cost more to protect it (and to defend against rebels). Only benefits would be a) to let Genoa be annexed by someone else, before taking the Liguria province back for less BB (but no certainty, unless you help Milan do it, before diplo-annex them), or b) to benefit from defecting provinces from GH/Russia/Lithuania (but it's not sure to work, given the numerous revoltable countries in the vicinity). In the first case, I'd let the province revolt away to Crimea (or anybody).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Vs. Venice, Poland and the Papal States (Milan started this one, another reason why I want to annex Milan ASAP so she’ll stop making stupid wars).
Be wary that neither of them successfully sieges Milan, or they'll annex it. I think a nice move would be to force-vassalize Papal States and Venice. But don't take provinces if you can do it. Don't annex Papal States (not as long as many catholics remain), but Venice can be ok if you're ready to face the OE regularly. In any case, take Venice in your alliance, but let the Papal States out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
My allies are fighting Croatia, Lithuania and Sweden. I got a white peace soon enough, though with the war against Genoa and the Crimea, Lithuania is right there and it probably would have been nice for me to be able to start attacking them. Anyway. . .
If I understand well, Lithuania has taken control of Genoa's crimean province, right ? Let's hope they surrender it, so Milan may annex Genoa proper...
Otherwise, I think your allies can withstand this alliance. You even could get a white peace for them rather soon (or Croatia losing a province or two to Austria). Let it go down.

For the colonies, make sure you seal off the inner continent. You can for now let the string of coastal fur provinces (other countries will probably only put TPs), but seal the east coast, north coast (Hudson's bay) and south coast. Given only northeast coast is open for now, quickly put TPs or colonies in the two unsettled provinces. Take the english provinces (if I need to repeat myself ), the sooner the better (less BB if they're still colonies). For your next explorer (historical only, since your LAND DP-slider is too high for random ones), send it first to Hudson's Bay, then south (unless you've taken the spanish maps before - a good thing too). Take the american coast first, then the various isles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I (France) control the following Dutch provinces: Flanders, Zeeland, Holland and Geldre
Austria controls: Brabant and Luxembourg (which I know is German, but still)
Friesland is still independent.
Austria's provinces will go to Spain in 1556 or so. Releasing the Netherlands won't make Spain secede those provinces (this applies only to the 4 northern provinces), but they'll get the revolts. I like to keep the provinces (because of the nice +3 Centralization in the end, 1648, and the conversion of Flanders). If the Netherlands revolt from Spain, the 4 northern provinces will defect, but it's ok : just DoW them, and take the provinces back (don't let them colonize). That's the hard way, it'll cost you BB tough. The other way, is to release as vassals, and re-annex after the Edict of Tolerance, which won't happen before 1648 (so you lose +3 Centralization and free conversion of Flanders).
Or, rather than letting the Netherlands revolt, invade Spain at that moment, to take Brabant and Luxemburg. Brabant is rich (I know it firstplace ), but it's especially to impeach the Netherlands from forming.
Another solution is, if Austria leaves your side, to attack them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Alrighty then, that’s the current status. Here’s what I think needs to happen on the tactical level all the while running the grand strategy of colonies. I need to wait till the RM with England ends and then declare war (or perhaps do something to tick them off anyway) to take their NA provinces. Can I correctly assume that I’ll probably have to invade the island again to gain a large enough warscore to take their places? If they have too many, I’m sure I can’t take all of them in one fell swoop, can I? Since I have MA with them, I can see that they have lots of armies on the island. Invading would seem to be very hard. And Scotland doesn’t like me, so having them fighting for/with me won’t happen.
Forgot you had MA. Cancel it, or you need to find allies for them. And yes, you'll have to take some more provinces on the island, but it shouldn't be that hard (build more transports, to make an instantaneous invasion of England with 3-4 30k armies at the same time). Taking Anglia and a couple of other provinces (choose rich ones, for WS and supply) should be ok. Invading is not hard : you only need to be ready to unload your troops at the moment you DoW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
AND, as stated way back up at the top, I think that perhaps it might be in my best interest to fight with Spain. That way I can invade Madrid and get their maps and take control of the penisula. If I’m going to give away the Netherlands (that includes Flanders too doesn’t it), then I was thinking replacing their income would be important.
Taking Toledo and Andalusia is also a good return on investments. But you could take more colonies/TPs otherwise (as long as they're BB-free). Only take islands : the mainland colonies can be received through defecting revolters. (I will explain later)
__________________
Nocuous

Quote:
Originally Posted by robin74
In Europe - not really. In the colonies, the provinces will change the culture once the nationalism is over.
This is true only when the province has a different culture than the original, and it has under 5000 pop when nationalism is over. You must also play with 1.08 in order to have this effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robin74
Are you at war?
Hover over the revolt risk in the province screen - it will tell you what causes the risk.
He is at war, so the RR is due to war exhaustion. This is a number that will increase as long as you are at war. It will increase faster when you recruit troops, so you might want spend a bit more money and get mercenaries insted if you can afford it. When you are at peace the WE will slowly decrease to 0 again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robin74
Not quite.
If you conquer a province that is not your core, there will be an extra +3% modifier to the revolt risk due to nationalism. It may cause positive revolt risk or not, depending on other factors. This nationalism factor goes down by a point each 10 years, and in 30 years it disappears. If the culture of the province varies from the original culture, then it will revert to your state culture, too.
Nationalism always give the province a positive RR. Normaly RR in a province is the sum of many factors (religion, stability, culture, core/non-core, events and WE), but when you have nationalism the RR is never lower than the RR from nationalism.

The change to state culture only happens in colonies as I described above.
__________________
Nocuous
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
If I were you, I wouldn't go for England nor Russia : you'll eventually (see it robin, no mistake this time ) want to take the english colonies. Rather soon in fact. I'd advise a war against them, preferably just after having invited a fourth ally (see next paragraph for the ally). Go take London (to get the maps), and drop a few small armies in the colonies. Take everything, because you don't want to let them build them up. They have no allies for now, and most of the majors are already in other alliances, so even if England joins them, since they're not the leader of the alliance, they won't get any other ally. So, as soon as your other wars are finished and your economy is back at a good point, go for england.
You should also try to let your WE decrease down to 0 before you enter any new wars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
For the ally, you have the choice. Either you force-vassalize Genoa again, and you invite them in your alliance, aiming to diplo-annex them in a few decades. Or you invite someone else : Russia is too far away to really matter (and you risk being called to wars too far away too) ; Tuscany, Siena and Modena seem available : invite Tuscany, diplo-vassalize them (if possible). The choice of ally depends on your goal about them : vassalize-annex, or help in wars (whether direct help, or insurance against DoW).
I would go for Genoa. Don't take the crimean province, but only vassalise them in the current war. They can't attack you or any other parties in your alliance until the truce is over (5 years) and that should be plenty of time to bribe them into your alliance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
All the sliders are pretty open. I'd go for narrowminded (to get more colonists), or free subject/centralization/plutocracy, to get higher income.
I agree that you should start to move your sliders so that you gain more colonists. Narrowminded will also give you more missionaries, and a better chance to gain a random Conquistador. I would also start to move the land/naval slider toward naval. I prefer better TE, more colonists, cheaper navy, less oversea malus and a chance to gain a random Explorer to the land benefits. (This is a matter of style, strategy and personal preference.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
IMO, wait a bit more to send to those faraway CoTs. Competition is rather hot there, and your TE is not that high. And don't despair, trade is probably the hardest part of the game, and you can almost never know for sure if you could have done better.
The main thing about sending merchants are price, value of COT, competition (number of countries and their TE in relation to yours), and the number of merchants you already have in the COT. I try to keep 5 merchants in as many COTs as possible, but if the merchants are very expensive and get kicked out with an alarming regularity I wouldn't bother with that COT for now. Another thing to keep in mind is that Trade Agreements are expensive. You have a TA with Portugal, England, Denmark and Sweden. Each TA reduces your TE, and the only one I would keep is the one with Portugal (they have a COT, and if you don't compete with their merchants your relations will not suffer).

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
For the colonies, make sure you seal off the inner continent. You can for now let the string of coastal fur provinces (other countries will probably only put TPs), but seal the east coast, north coast (Hudson's bay) and south coast. Given only northeast coast is open for now, quickly put TPs or colonies in the two unsettled provinces. Take the english provinces (if I need to repeat myself ), the sooner the better (less BB if they're still colonies). For your next explorer (historical only, since your LAND DP-slider is too high for random ones), send it first to Hudson's Bay, then south (unless you've taken the spanish maps before - a good thing too). Take the american coast first, then the various isles.
One little hint. You can always discover the adjacent provinces as long as they are owned by another nation. Send your army marching toward a TI province, and when the movement is completed you will discover the province and the army is "bounced" back into your starting province. As long as you have the MA with England your soldiers can also move about in their colonies. That way you can discover all the TI provinces that belong to England, and any occupied provinces that border the English (such as Lenape).

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
Austria's provinces will go to Spain in 1556 or so. Releasing the Netherlands won't make Spain secede those provinces (this applies only to the 4 northern provinces), but they'll get the revolts. I like to keep the provinces (because of the nice +3 Centralization in the end, 1648, and the conversion of Flanders). If the Netherlands revolt from Spain, the 4 northern provinces will defect, but it's ok : just DoW them, and take the provinces back (don't let them colonize). That's the hard way, it'll cost you BB tough. The other way, is to release as vassals, and re-annex after the Edict of Tolerance, which won't happen before 1648 (so you lose +3 Centralization and free conversion of Flanders).

I often try to keep those provinces, and to keep Netherland from forming. I will cost quite a bit during the revolts, but the provinces are rich. The main reason why I don't want Netherland around is that they are yet another colonizer that will compete with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
Forgot you had MA. Cancel it, or you need to find allies for them. And yes, you'll have to take some more provinces on the island, but it shouldn't be that hard (build more transports, to make an instantaneous invasion of England with 3-4 30k armies at the same time). Taking Anglia and a couple of other provinces (choose rich ones, for WS and supply) should be ok. Invading is not hard : you only need to be ready to unload your troops at the moment you DoW.
As I said earlier. Use the MA to explore their colonies unless you want to go to war right away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
Taking Toledo and Andalusia is also a good return on investments. But you could take more colonies/TPs otherwise (as long as they're BB-free). Only take islands : the mainland colonies can be received through defecting revolters. (I will explain later)
I agree on Toledo and Andalusia. They are some of the best provinces in the region, at least now that Andalusia has a COT and a shipyard!

Some further notes on your position : Adjust your budget so that you only invest in one tech at the time. Since you soon will get Infra 5 I would put all my money toward that. The reason for only investing in one tech at the time is simple. You will get the advantages of the new tech sooner, and can then enjoy these advantages while you invest in your next tech.

You must also convert provinces as soon as possible. Wrong religion will cost you 30% income, increased Stab cost, and usually increased RR. If the Spanish didn't convert Murcia before you took it, you should convert it right away. (It starts out muslim IIRC.)
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocuous
You should also try to let your WE decrease down to 0 before you enter any new wars.
Part of the "economy back to normal". The time it will take, WE will be down enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocuous
I would go for Genoa. Don't take the crimean province, but only vassalise them in the current war. They can't attack you or any other parties in your alliance until the truce is over (5 years) and that should be plenty of time to bribe them into your alliance.
Playing under 1.07 (first page of the thread ), it'll give a -1 to Centralization when diplo-annexing them. So, it's best to let Milan force-annex them, if possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocuous
One little hint. You can always discover the adjacent provinces as long as they are owned by another nation. Send your army marching toward a TI province, and when the movement is completed you will discover the province and the army is "bounced" back into your starting province. As long as you have the MA with England your soldiers can also move about in their colonies. That way you can discover all the TI provinces that belong to England, and any occupied provinces that border the English (such as Lenape).
It works only for already owned provinces. But the goal is to take all NA, so it's much better to steal english maps (and trade maps with the pagans also).
And with the MA, since England has no allies but carlec well, it'd be impossible to DoW England.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocuous
I often try to keep those provinces, and to keep Netherland from forming. I will cost quite a bit during the revolts, but the provinces are rich. The main reason why I don't want Netherland around is that they are yet another colonizer that will compete with you.
You may have overlooked it, but there's an advantage with releasing the Netherlands. If you don't own some or all of the 4 northern provinces, releasing the Netherlands will cause France, Spain, Burgundy, England and Austria to secede those provinces to the Netherlands. Since they're your vassals, you'll be able to diplo-annex them back later (after the Edict of Tolerance if you're catholic).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocuous
You must also convert provinces as soon as possible. Wrong religion will cost you 30% income, increased Stab cost, and usually increased RR. If the Spanish didn't convert Murcia before you took it, you should convert it right away. (It starts out muslim IIRC.)
Not "as soon as possible". If stuck with a crap monarch, you have to wait until you get a much better one, or you'll lose much money trying unsuccessfully to convert. Knowing the next monarchs is a must.

 

[ProfCC]

CURRENT SETTING FROM CARLEC

Yeah, that whole war exhaustion thing kind of stinks. The historical evidence is that most countries could wage war for about 5-7 years before everyone started freaking out. I think I only got about 3 years.

Wow! What an exhausting and exhilarating game. Followed you guys advice well (I think) and successfully waged war with England for her colonies. I did as instructed and landed 3 armies on the island and fully took the coast as well as landing a northern army. I kept wishing Scotland would hop in, but she remained stupid and neutral. Anyway, I successfully got almost every colony of Englands. Sadly, I lost 3 invasions of Isle Royal (the first time I had 10,000 and she had 2000 and somehow still won). And she held Quebec, again against overwhelming odds. I wondered if by that point my WE had something to do with it, but no matter how large the army, she held out. Grrrr.

In the end, I took 6 of her 8 colonies (the two she had on the large island beside Isle Royal), Cheseapeake, Nova Scotia and the 3 others around that horn towards Quebec. I also took Kent and Wessex for good measure. I wasn't sure about that part (I only wanted the colonies), but once I could never take them, I wasn't sure. I figured that another war would be coming at some point and not having to cross channel invade would be to my advantage (assuming I can hold them from the rebels).

Sadly, right in the middle of the war, I got hammered with a random -3 stability event (probably also hurt my fighting men). So right now (1542-3) I am putting down rebellions all over the place.

Religion has finally hit my shores. Boom---you guys never said that every province would just switch over like that. Can I assume the bad news that even though I spend the 250+ to send the missionary that the 54% means I might not get what I want? How important is that in the grand scheme of things? I mean, I understand that if our religions don't agree that rebellions could come up or I might get less tax revenue. But, is this something that every penny should be put after this second? Or do I say "OK, by 1650, I should have gotten most places back to Catholic?" And, though I was planning on staying Catholic, did I read somewhere I that a choice is coming my way? Would that be during the coming "War of the 3 Henry's" that should happen in the latter 1500s?

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #20
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I got hammered with a random -3 stability event (probably also hurt my fighting men).
No, unless you reduced maintenance to cover your losses.

Quote:
Can I assume the bad news that even though I spend the 250+ to send the missionary that the 54% means I might not get what I want?
First, 250d is really cheap for conversion.
Second, 54% chance is quite high.
Third, of course you may not get what you want - you will only get what you want with 54% probability

Quote:
How important is that in the grand scheme of things?
At such low prices, convert as much as you can afford. Converting a province to your state religion means your stability cost alone goes down by 25d (times modifiers). And you also get fewer revolts and higher tax and census income. You should always try to convert the high-probability provinces (and these are your state culture provinces and Pagan ones - these have an added benefit of changing culture, too).

Quote:
And, though I was planning on staying Catholic, did I read somewhere I that a choice is coming my way? Would that be during the coming "War of the 3 Henry's" that should happen in the latter 1500s?
That would be around 1560s, but you don't have to switch.

Quote:
I thought I read a hint in one of your posts that Milan might become a core of mine in the future, like mid-1600s? Is that right?
No. If in 1500 Austria and Milan both exist, then there is 1 in 19 chance Milan will go with inheritance by France, in which case you will have the option to add it as your core.

Quote:
Oh, what's up with the colonies when it becomes a city? Why do they still ask me to send more colonists? I thought once it was a city, I was done there? Do I need to keep sending once it IS a city?
No, but you still can send colonists until it reaches 5000. There's hardly any benefit in doing it, though, so you should spend your money elsewhere.
__________________
lawkeeper

For the religious matters, you'll get four conversions around 1589 (At the Walls of Paris) and five more around 1681 (Protestant expelled or Catholic Rights revoked). So, make sure you have converted all the easily converted provinces (as said by robin, 'statecultured' and pagans), and you have enough wrong-religion provinces to convert (maybe a bit of invasion of chinese provinces, or the other dutch provinces...).

Also, if you've had the Dutch revolts but you still hold Flanders around 1648, it should convert too. So, hold on.

For the state conversion, you'll have the choice between catholic, counter-reform and reformed in 1562. There're not many differences, so choose the religion you'd prefer. If you have many reformed provinces (including the dutch northern provinces), it could really be interesting (if you're ready to be nearly alone in your religion). If you need much more missionaries and a bit higher morale for a time, go CRC. Otherwise, stay catholic (if you get many italian provinces by then).
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
With the Lanape, I thought their religion would just change (I guess I didn't read earlier posts well enough).
Why would you assume this? If you got Pagan provinces, you need to send missionaries for the religion to change. If you succeed, their culture will change, too - this is a really good deal, because your tax income from such a province will more than double and the stability costs will go down, and you don't get revolt risk there anymore. And if I undestand you well, it costs about 240d per province to convert them? That's very, very cheap.
__________________
Nocuous
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
HOakey-doaky--after mucking around for another 2 years fighting negative stability and major revolts, I backed up. I went back to when England and I were at war. I knew better than to string in out since I wasn't going to get Isle Royal or Quebec. So, I took ONLY the colonies and left Kent and Wessex alone (no revolts). My stability was at 0 and I was able to raise it up quickly.
You should not have given up on Isle Royal and Quebec. The stab and WE had nothing to do with your losses. It was bad luck combined with defesive bonuses. You should simply use overwhelming force and hit them again and again until you get lucky. Not taking any English provinces was probably a good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
This way I was able to launch an attack at the Lenape and by 1545, I conquered them. Taking the capital of course gave me their maps so most of the EAstern US is now open to me. Lots of pagans.
What version are you playing? In 1.08 you don't see the known provinces of pagans when you take their capitol. If you aren't playing 1.08 I suggest that you install it now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
England cheats! When we ended in 1540, she had the 2 provinces. 5 years later she has been able to establish 5 new places. I mean, does the computer ever get a failed colony? How do they have that much money? So, in the end, it looks like another war is looming if I am going to keep England out of there. I assume I can't wait too long before doing this can I? I suppose my Spain ideas will simply have to wait.
England is a main coloniser. If they have cash and know uncolonised provinces they will try to gain them. Five years probably means 20-25 colonists for England. In that periode they have a quite good monarch (Henry VIII), and they should get a quite good % when they try to establish colonies and TPs. If some of the newly colonised provinces only have a TP, it is not very expensive. A level 1 TP with 50% chance does on average cost 20-30 ducats. Some of the colonies are probably low level, and that also means that they have only spent 100-200 ducats to gain that colony. Since the AI usually mint money, and they also sometimes get money from random events and from gifts it is not unresonable that England can spend 500 ducats in five years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
England and France in the early 1540s is about 2 centuries before the real Colonial wars (7 Years, Spanish Austrian Succession and all that jazz). Interesting. I suppose this time I need to load up big time and take Quebec first before war exhaustion sets in. I mean, last time, I went in to both places big and still got trounced. They did not have leaders.
If at first you don't succede... You should hit them again and again. Use two or more seperate armies, so that you can reduce their morale with the first, and hit them with the next before they regain the morale. The main problem with Isle Royal is that you are attacing mountains from a ship. That gives the defenders a huge advantage, and you must expect some failures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Oh, Milan doesn't seem to want to annex right now. I suppose it hasn't been 10 years yet (yes I know I want to wait 30 years). However, the Netherlands event is coming up. If it should happen that I still have all 4 alliance slots taken (Portugal, Austria, Milan and Genoa), would it be better to drop one to ensure keeping Netherlands as an ally? If yes, which one?
If you want to drop one then Milan is the obvious choice. The chances are they will get conquered by someone else, and you can then later take the provinces from them at a lower cost. Austria is a nice ally in any continental war, Portugal is quite nice if you need someone to help with killing enemy navies, and also to get some friendly ports on your way to Asia. Genoa is also a must since you probably is just waiting to diplo-annex them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I know the lowlands seems to be quite an issue for many of you as I've gotten varied advice. I'm still not quite sure what to do there, but it looks like dropping them eliminates decades of revolts, keeping them in the alliance helps me, and then diplo-annexation much later.
I have allready stated my preference regarding the low-countries. You can of course also release them as a vassal as soon as they demand "The General Estates". The main cach is that they will know all the provinces that you know, and they will start to fill any empty provinces with Reformed Dutch colonists. Unless you can gain those provinces before they reach 5000 pop you will never be able to change the culture, and will be stuck with wrong culture the the rest of the game.
__________________
lawkeeper

Continue to wage war against England, and try to always take their capital. Do not take any english province, just make sure your fleet chases the dispersed english ships. Once you get naval superiority, you're safe to easily invade England every time you want. The english colonies are boon to you : these are colonists you won't have to send.

For the Netherlands, releasing them is not a so great idea, as you'll only ultimately get Friesland, not Brabant/Luxemburg. And as i said on another post, you'll get no less than 9 conversions in 1589 and 1681, along with the conversion of Flanders in 1648 if you still hold it. So, convert early and often all the easy provinces (cores and pagans), and make sure you have enough non-cores non-pagans in 1589 (4) and 1681 (5) to get full benefits.

How can't you diplo-annex Milan ? When did you vassalize them ? I thought it was already more than ten years.

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #21
QUESTIONS ABOUT NETHERLANDS AND REVOLTS
carlec
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper

For the Netherlands, releasing them is not a so great idea, as you'll only ultimately get Friesland, not Brabant/Luxemburg. And as i said on another post, you'll get no less than 9 conversions in 1589 and 1681, along with the conversion of Flanders in 1648 if you still hold it.

OK, now I am confused. I thought you guys said I should release them. Let me think here--when they ask for it, if I say no, then they'll still be provinces right? And I suppose that will mean that the revolt risk will get quite high [the thing sheridan said to avoid]? But other than that, I'll still have them? Right? So, then lawkeeper, you then are saying that in 1648, Flanders will (if I still hold it) simply convert on its own to French culture? So the only cost to me is constant revolts that I will have to pay for an army to keep defeating them. And thus Nocuous' fear that then they'll be a colonizer that I'll have to contend with?

But, if I release them and hold them as vassels with the intent to diplo-annex them, wouldn't I get whatever colonies they start? And if I do that right before 1648, wouldn't the Flanders event still happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper

So, convert early and often all the easy provinces (cores and pagans), and make sure you have enough non-cores non-pagans in 1589 (4) and 1681 (5) to get full benefits.

I just don't understand this. I'm sorry. Here's what I think you are saying. In those two moments, I'll get to choose 9 different provinces to just convert instantly. Right? But what does "full benefits" mean? So, like the Spanish provinces I took? They are non-core and they are non-pagan. If I choose them, then they will be, what, my cores? We were talking religion, but now we are talking core and culture. Sorry to be confused but I want to make sure I get this right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper

How can't you diplo-annex Milan ? When did you vassalize them ? I thought it was already more than ten years.

It certainly has been over 10 years. I'm not sure what's going on. I don't have the game up, but do I need a RM with them? I reviewed the earlier notes and didn't see that as a requirement. Maybe it's due to the fact that they are at war at this moment, but even when they were at peace I got no option for that.

Nocuous---I'm playing on a Mac and the version is 1.07. I have no idea if that is the same as the version 1.07 you guys talk about. I also have no idea what I can download or from where. I'm not too worried about it, but you all mention stuff like EEP and code and the like, and I think that's just stuff you can do on the PC side of life. If someone else is a Mac gamer and knows how to download whatever and can tell me where to put stuff, I guess I'll try it out.

robin74--why? Because I'm a newbie. I just thought I read it somewhere, but what I must have read was what you said secondly. Once I convert them religiously, then the culture changes. And, the cost to convert them is about 350 or so and the odds are quite low (30% range).
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
in 1648, Flanders will (if I still hold it) simply convert on its own to French culture?
It will stay Dutch, but it will convert to your state religion.

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But, if I release them and hold them as vassels with the intent to diplo-annex them, wouldn't I get whatever colonies they start?
Yes, but if they turned into cities, they will be Dutch and Reformed - you will have to wait 30 years for nationalism to fade out for the culture change and send a missionary to convert them for the religion change(unless you're Reformed too, which may not be a bad choice for yourself).

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And if I do that right before 1648, wouldn't the Flanders event still happen?
It would - but if you don't have Flanders, then it will not convert.

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I'll get to choose 9 different provinces to just convert instantly. Right?
No - you don't get to choose them. These are up to 9 random provinces. What you can choose is the other provinces that you convert by yourself. If you converted them by yourself, then they won't be eligible for conversion.

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If I choose them, then they will be, what, my cores? We were talking religion, but now we are talking core and culture.
No, they will never become your culture, and they will not become your cores. The subjugation of Netherlands will decrease revolt risk, convert Flanders, increase the stability and centralization and give you 300d.

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I don't have the game up, but do I need a RM with them?
No, the requirements are:
1) unbroken vassalization for 10 years (more is better tough)
2) relations at 190+ (or possibly 200 for better odds)
3) a spare diplomat
4) they must currently be at peace (you don't have to)
5) a bigger economy (if you have an overwhelmingly superior economy, which is the case, it's better)
6) being in the same alliance
7) compatible religions : you need to be able to have RM, not have an existing RM.
8) a common land border

So them being at war prevents diploannexation.

Quote:
Once I convert them religiously, then the culture changes. And, the cost to convert them is about 350 or so and the odds are quite low (30% range).
But you need to send a missionary who would be successful. It's not enough to get those provinces from Lenape.
And I'll repeat - 350d is really cheap.

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Once I get Infra level 5 to start placing governors, should I start minting money in order to move more quickly in the placing?
Yes, after you got rid of inflation you should mint at least as much as you can without causing much inflation.

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I mean, right now I'm getting about 450d a year and the treasury slider stays left.
What do you mean 450d? Census taxes at the end of the year?

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governors around 175-250
Governors cost 100d each.

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there is no way I can do all I need to do in any short period of time.
This game lasts 401 years - you don't have to do all this in any short period of time.
You might also actually consider taking loans to promote governors - since you're going to mint money after you do, you would probably be better off this way.

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I mean, if you say "well, 1 governor a year is normal, so you should spend 50-60 years getting one in each province AND THEN start minting money" then okay.
First, if you're making 450d, that's 4 governors a year, not one. Each governor will decreas your inflation by one point. Once you reached infra 5, build them right away - as many as your inflation (any more would be lost). Then you can start minting. Set your treasury slider at some 20-25% percent, and build another governor every 4-5 years to get rid of inflation you got.

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Then, once they are all in (say 20 years), then the inflation will start coming down (currently it's like 15%).
All the advise about building governors all at the time is for 1.08 version, which you're not playing. In your version (1.07), each governor will simply take your inflation down by a point, so you shouldn't build them all.
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
OK, now I am confused. I thought you guys said I should release them. Let me think here--when they ask for it, if I say no, then they'll still be provinces right? And I suppose that will mean that the revolt risk will get quite high [the thing sheridan said to avoid]? But other than that, I'll still have them? Right? So, then lawkeeper, you then are saying that in 1648, Flanders will (if I still hold it) simply convert on its own to French culture? So the only cost to me is constant revolts that I will have to pay for an army to keep defeating them. And thus Nocuous' fear that then they'll be a colonizer that I'll have to contend with? But, if I release them and hold them as vassels with the intent to diplo-annex them, wouldn't I get whatever colonies they start? And if I do that right before 1648, wouldn't the Flanders event still happen?
This is because releasing them won't give you more interesting provinces in the end. Only Holland, Zeeland, Gelre and Friesland are seceded to the Netherlands (and only by one of the countries getting the events : England, France, Austria, Spain & Burgundy ; or if still independent). Since the only provinces you don't have are Friesland (which is not truly amazing) and Brabant & Luxemburg (Austria is gonna giving to Spain), releasing the Neths won't help you much.

IMHO, keeping the provinces and receiving the revolts is not a big hit, you only have to keep some troops right there. All you lose as income is tax income, you'll still receive production and tolls.

And to diplo-annex the Netherlands, which shall be reformed, you need to wait past the Edict of Tolerance event, which probably won't fire before 1648 - so, no free conversion of Flanders).

And don't think about releasing various minors before reformation starts, since they'd probably convert to reformed (cancelling the vassalization).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I just don't understand this. I'm sorry. Here's what I think you are saying. In those two moments, I'll get to choose 9 different provinces to just convert instantly. Right? But what does "full benefits" mean? So, like the Spanish provinces I took? They are non-core and they are non-pagan. If I choose them, then they will be, what, my cores? We were talking religion, but now we are talking core and culture. Sorry to be confused but I want to make sure I get this right.
You don't get to choose the provinces, they don't become your cores, it's just 9 random conversions. But this'll only convert to your religion provinces that are wrong-religion, so convert the easy-to-convert provinces first.
Don't convert colonies you took (wait for them to become of your culture after nationalism fades, if still under 5000 pop).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Nocuous---I'm playing on a Mac and the version is 1.07. I have no idea if that is the same as the version 1.07 you guys talk about. I also have no idea what I can download or from where. I'm not too worried about it, but you all mention stuff like EEP and code and the like, and I think that's just stuff you can do on the PC side of life. If someone else is a Mac gamer and knows how to download whatever and can tell me where to put stuff, I guess I'll try it out.
I don't think 1.07 is different for Mac than for PC, but I don't know if 1.08 has been released for Mac-users.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
robin74--why? Because I'm a newbie. I just thought I read it somewhere, but what I must have read was what you said secondly. Once I convert them religiously, then the culture changes. And, the cost to convert them is about 350 or so and the odds are quite low (30% range).
Automatic changes of cultures only happen for colonial cities under 5000, when nationalism fades out, on the condition that the provinces hasn't the default-culture (from province.csv file) and is not in Europe. Otherwise, for pagan provinces, you still have to send a missionary, but the cost is lower and the odds higher than for any other wrong-culture province.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Once I get Infra level 5 to start placing governors, should I start minting money in order to move more quickly in the placing? I mean, right now I'm getting about 450d a year and the treasury slider stays left. With conversions at about 250-350, governors around 175-250 and colonists around 60-100, there is no way I can do all I need to do in any short period of time. I mean, if you say "well, 1 governor a year is normal, so you should spend 50-60 years getting one in each province AND THEN start minting money" then okay. But it just seems really slow. And of course that would mean no wars or anything wierd/costly for that 40-60 years. I know the game is a long year (in games years as well as real hours), but seems like it would be better to mint money (my other sliders seem to be normal--land (11), naval (12), trade (4), infra (5)--so I can put the governors in quicker while still colonizing. Then, once they are all in (say 20 years), then the inflation will start coming down (currently it's like 15%).
No, mint money, it's better to quickly place all the governors. After that, unless I have inflation problems, what I used to do is placing the treasury slider at 25% and making sure I raised a colony to city status every fourth year, so I don't get anymore inflation (1% in four years, but reduced by 1% per governor after I build it[edit--in 1.07 only; in 1.08 this is different as explained eslewhere]) but I get much more money to invest in colonies/officials.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Second question---all these new pagans I am beside. Should I try to play nice with them for a while, even to ally with them, till I eliminate the English threat in NA? Or do I just not worry about them for now?
My opinion ? Get some CBs against them, annex them, convert the provinces.
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
you need to wait past the Edict of Tolerance event, which probably won't fire before 1648
It certainly won't, because the earliest it can fire is 1650.

Also, on second thought, since you're playing 1.07, don't take loans to pay for governors - simply once you reach infra 5 start minting and build the governors for what you minted.
__________________
Morlac

Question overload!

Just to pontificate a bit on the excellent advice folks have been giving here so far --

(a) Financial discipline and smart investing are very important in this game. You have to understand what your return is for each possible investment, and be able to fit that to your overall strategy and your country's position. It's not so much a matter of doing everything at once as knowing which things you have to do in what order to get you to your goals. There's no way you're going to really "get" that level of understanding just from advice on the forum, though it will help. You have to keep playing the game, trying things out, and seeing the results. When you are new to the game, you really shouldn't feel guilty about saving, trying something, seeing how it works, and then reverting back to try something different.


(b) Regarding conversions. I think the point folks have been trying to make is that not all conversions are equal. High-population provinces are massively expensive (1000d or more). On the other hand, pagan provinces convert much easier (i.e. higher chance of success). Since the conversions are random, you would be far better off if by the time the conversion events triggered, you had already converted all (or as many as possible) of the "easy" ones (meaning the ones that are high-success or cheap or both). You'll be far better off automatically converting a bunch of 1000d/15% chance provinces than a bunch of 275d/66% chance provinces!

__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
if I change, do ALL my provinces (at least the cores) come with me
Not a single province will change. You have to send missionaries if you want them to convert.

Quote:
I'm sure there is a FAQ on this, but what exactly is the price to be paid if I switch?
- there are more provinces to convert from Catholic to Reformed than from Reformed to Catholic and until you convert them they increase your stability costs.
- if you switch to Reformed your research will be faster, your stability cost will be higher, your tax income will be 20 percentage points lower, you will get fewer missionaries and fewer colonists. On the other hand your morale will be 0.5 higher and your trade efficiency will go up 10 points - that's a really high bonus late in the game, when the trade income is a very high part of your total income. The major thing then is getting extra trade income. But staying Catholic is a viable option too, of course, because most of your provinces are Catholic.
__________________
lawkeeper

The key in choosing between reformed and catholic is non-state culture provinces. Your french provinces can be converted rather easily, but your non-state culture are much more difficult.

You also need to know that, if you choose catholic or CRC, once all your reformed provinces are converted, you're gonna have a 'free' tolerance slider. You could put it to 0 regarding reformed, as only a few countries will be reformed (or none at all, since prominent reformed are only the Netherlands, Scotland, Helvetia and Palatinate). And going CRC will give you an extra missionary to help doing the conversions before the conversion events.

As of the benefits, I think the bonus on Trade Efficiency is still +20, in 1.07 (and the penalty to tax of -20).
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Yeah--OK, that was what I feared. I see no good reason for switching since I have so many Catholic provinces. I see what you mean about the te bonus, but I think I'll stay Catholic.

Is there any major difference between Catholic and Catholic-reformed?

CRC has a slower tech, lower tax income, but better morale and more missionaries. And you get a CB against all protestants, along with a 'free' tolerance slider (since there're no CRC provinces, you don't really need it, unless you want to keep good relations with Austrian and Spain).
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
As of the benefits, I think the bonus on Trade Efficiency is still +20, in 1.07
Oh, thee of little faith
If I said it goes up by 10 points, then it goes up by 10 points (and actually it was originally 30%, and I think 1.06 is the last patch where their trade efficiency went up by 20%)

 

[ProfCC]

CURRENT SETTING FROM CARLEC

Woo-hoo---check it out. Man, this game just got a lot more fun. I suppose I should temper my enthusiasm by fully disclosing that I'm a newbie and am playing on the normal level (not that hard stuff you experts do---not this time at least).

I slid that treasury slider and started hammering out everything---colonies, missionaries, governors and where needed, the Chief Justice dude. My stability jumped up even as I finally annexed Milan and Genoa (yes, one more CoT). Yes!

As you can see, I've been able to hammer ahead of England and if I am understanding the colonization issue rightly, I have cut England off from the rest of N.A. They still have Seminole, but they've got Spain to deal with and the Creeks. I finally figured out that in provinces with touch Natives, you just have to go in there hard and take them out. I didn't really want to, but. . .

And to top it all off, I think I have a way to get England into another war. They are allied with Norway and Hannover (maybe one more). I got Scotland back into the fold with Portugal and Austria. Now, I received one of those random "hey this person is ticked off at you" deals with -relations and the CB. The last time I attacked, I did not have a CB. But, if I declare war on Hannover, then England will join in or drop their ally, right? The only risk is if they bail on Hannover. If they do, I could just go for a white peace and move on, right?

QUESTION SERIES #22
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
What can you do to get a CB.
Not much really. You could claim their throne, but you need a Royal Marriage first, so it won't work against Pagans, and it will also mean a large stability hit, so if you're not playing on Very Hard, there really is no point in doing so, just attack them without a Casus Belli.
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I slid that treasury slider and started hammering out everything---colonies, missionaries, governors and where needed, the Chief Justice dude. My stability jumped up even as I finally annexed Milan and Genoa (yes, one more CoT). Yes!
Okay, don't forget to ultimately replace your allies. If in the mood, you could use random or forged CBs against your neighbours, to force-vassalize a couple of them. That's the rhyme : make a war, force-vassalize, invite them to your alliance, diplo-annex them. Grow, grow, grow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
As you can see, I've been able to hammer ahead of England and if I am understanding the colonization issue rightly, I have cut England off from the rest of N.A. They still have Seminole, but they've got Spain to deal with and the Creeks. I finally figured out that in provinces with touch Natives, you just have to go in there hard and take them out. I didn't really want to, but. . .
You're not done with England yet. You may either take what is left (colonies and TPs, not yet the fully grown colonial city of Isle Royale), or let them grow (at the cost of increased BB later). Seminole is unimportant, as it's ToT land you're at risk of losing it (but this would give you a CB on Spain ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
And to top it all off, I think I have a way to get England into another war. They are allied with Norway and Hannover (maybe one more). I got Scotland back into the fold with Portugal and Austria. Now, I received one of those random "hey this person is ticked off at you" deals with -relations and the CB. The last time I attacked, I did not have a CB. But, if I declare war on Hannover, then England will join in or drop their ally, right? The only risk is if they bail on Hannover. If they do, I could just go for a white peace and move on, right?
That's good, use it if your armies are still fit. Force-vassalize Hannover tough, if you can get an army to them. It's protestant probably, but it still is better than force-annexing them. So, if you vassalize them, let them out of your alliance (but don't take allies close to them, to avoid wars against them).
Or, you could let them be annexed by one of your allies (one you could or already have diplo- or force-vassalized).
Is Scotland big, or reduced to one province ? If it's small, be careful in war against England, but you can use them as staging grounds for your troops (in the case England has a big navy).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
What other options are there to get a CB against someone? I'm wondering that too for the natives. Once I deal with England, I'll want to move onto the next pagans/natives. I am converting the first group well enough (I mean, it's a 5 year deal so who knows--that would kind of stink if it fails, but I guess that's the deal).
Against pagans, try not to decimate their armies : once you annex them, you get all their troops.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
What can you do to get a CB. And no, there is no CoT in England anywhere.
Rather common for the AI, but not truly annoying, England chose "Royal Army". Too bad, they'll never get the mastery of their trade. If you want, you may embargo them.

For CBs, here's a couple of possibilities :
- random event (it's random, but you could get some, so use them)
- ally one of them, let the relations go down (with an insult if need be), then DoW someone in Europe, they will dishonor, and you'll get a CB. Wait until you're nearing the end of the CB, to max your chances of them joining another alliance (this is valid for any CB on lone pagan).
- send a warning, tough it's not guaranteed it'll work (it'll depend on your 'target' to DoW one of your neighbours)

Once you get in a war, go after one pagan after another. They probably are all in two alliances, so wipe the full alliance.
__________________
carlec

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
Force-vassalize Hannover tough, if you can get an army to them. It's protestant probably, but it still is better than force-annexing them. So, if you vassalize them, let them out of your alliance (but don't take allies close to them, to avoid wars against them).

Are you saying "it's hard to vasselize Hannover" or "when you force-vasselize them, do it with plenty of force (tough)?" Just not sure. Actually, I was thinking I would not even invade them if I didn't have to. All I want is England to jump in. When I do the DoW, I would have my 2-3 armies ready to pounce into England. But if they bailed on Hannover, I would simply just do nothing but protect Geldre and try to get a white peace ASAP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
Is Scotland big, or reduced to one province ? If it's small, be careful in war against England, but you can use them as staging grounds for your troops (in the case England has a big navy).

Scotland took all of Eire back in the late 1400s at about the same time that England took all of the Highlands. So, Scotland has her capital in Edinburgh and then all of Ireland. I had not thought of loading troops into Scotland, but that is genius. I could run roughshod over all of Scotland, get the colonies, then in the peace process, give Scotland part (probably not all) of her land back. I'm pumped. And no, England does not have a large navy, but I probably need to beef mine up. Last war I had mostly transports and galleys and ran into a wee bit of trouble when they finally showed up to fight me (I think they were in the colonies when it started).
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Are you saying "it's hard to vasselize Hannover" or "when you force-vasselize them, do it with plenty of force (tough)?" Just not sure. Actually, I was thinking I would not even invade them if I didn't have to. All I want is England to jump in. When I do the DoW, I would have my 2-3 armies ready to pounce into England. But if they bailed on Hannover, I would simply just do nothing but protect Geldre and try to get a white peace ASAP.

Scotland took all of Eire back in the late 1400s at about the same time that England took all of the Highlands. So, Scotland has her capital in Edinburgh and then all of Ireland. I had not thought of loading troops into Scotland, but that is genius. I could run roughshod over all of Scotland, get the colonies, then in the peace process, give Scotland part (probably not all) of her land back. I'm pumped. And no, England does not have a large navy, but I probably need to beef mine up. Last war I had mostly transports and galleys and ran into a wee bit of trouble when they finally showed up to fight me (I think they were in the colonies when it started).

I say to send an army if possible, and to force-vassalize them, even if you can't diplo-annex them until 1650 (due to religious differences). Or force-convert them, whatever.

The AI nearly always spreads its fleets, so you can beat them in a quick naval war, chasing their fleets one after the other. But you need warships for that (let the galleys in your coastal lands).

 

[ProfCC]

CURRENT SETTING FROM CARLEC

Ah the interesting life of EU2. I played far too much to try and explain it here without it simply being an AAR. Right before I could DOW Hannover, England got Mary and switched to Catholic dropping the alliance. LOL

By that point, I still had all my pieces in place and so I went for the non-CB DoW and did fine. Stupid Scotland did NOTHING even though I gave them a 17,000 army in the north to help them out. They had 2 leaders and about 30k in troops. England was majorly reeling and had Scotland simply landed the armies she would have taken ALL her land back. Grrr. But I got all the colonies and got out, again taking no English land.

Then it got interesting.

All the Spain-Austria-Netherlands stuff happened and Spain DoW'ed me. First of the game really. I could see it was coming before I hit England and I was racing against the clock since I had my armies north. Spain should have DoW'ed me at that exact moment. But, it worked out, barely. I mean, I think I had 3 weeks from the peace agreements till the DoW (of course, in the meantime Scotland DoW'ed Norway-- who runs these people? Now I remember why I was glad when Scotland dropped out of the alliance.

Anyway, it was dicey at first since Spain at Navarre (with 36,000 troops staring at Bearn), Bavaria on my flank and Naples in the South. They had another German, but they bailed quickly. I tried to get Bavaria out, but that whole "White Peace" thing never works for me. (I tried it with Norway too as soon as Spain hit me, but no, yet 3 days later they white peace me--sigh).

No need for the blow-by-blow, once I finally moved my armies south and cranked up the army production, I crushed Spain. I landed 3 little armies into the Caribbean for warscore, I took most of the north Spanish provinces, finally took Castille (and YEAH, got the maps). I landed and took Sardinia and Sicily and all of Milan.

By then, however the WE was huge, so I tried to get out, and tried, and tried and tried. I owned or was sieging all but 2 provinces of Spain but they would not accept my peace proposal (83% and I was at 97%).

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #23
__________________
Morlac

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Dealing with Spain--when I talked to them as the leader of the alliance with me as leader, none of the Naples places were offered (this was before I made the above deal). The fact that I had taken the places was listed in the warscore, but not on the list of provinces I could take. I was expecting them all to be listed.

My impression has been that the alliance leader is not authorized to give up anything but his own provinces, unlike EU1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Also, at no point did it offer me the chance to give a province to Portugal. Portugal has gotten big in Brazil, but smacked around by rebels in the homeland so that 2 provinces defected to Spain. I suppose they have no money for an army. Anyway, I took one of those places and was planning to give it to Portugal, but never had the chance.

I had trouble following this one. Was Portugal in the war and had she taken control of the province? You do not, as a war settlement, get to say "give this province to that nation" unless the receiving nation is still in your alliance for the war and actually has control of the nation. All you can do is say "give up this province to whomever now controls it."

Perhaps you are thinking of the case wherein you take provinces from an enemy and then afterwards (as a separate action) release them as an independent vassal state. That reduces your BB score somewhat while still giving you some of the benefits of having vassals (which can be large in the latest beta patches) and still hurting your main enemy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
After offering Spain a peace deal (mentioned above, with me taking Brabant, Luxembourg, Aragon, Sardinia and the two northern Atlantic provinces closest to mine) 3 TIMES, she finally turns right around and offers me a BETTER peace deal (same 6 provices plus 2 of the Caribbean places that I wasn't even wanting to keep). Is this just some failure on the part of the AI?

Yes, the AI has done things like this since EU1. By the way, even though the threshold for stability loss for not accepting a peace deal is around 13% less than your current warscsore, that number does not automatically mean that the AI will agree to your proposal (nor should it.) However, the farther under your warscore you are willing to go, the greater the chances the AI will accept. Sometimes, you have too much else to deal with and you have to cut them a break (and conversely, sometimes you have to go for the kill and smash just about everything in order to get the provinces you really want.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
In all of this, somehow I got totally CREAMED in the BB department. When the war with England started, I was at 17 or so. I know that's high, but anyway. Yet when I was done with Spain (remember, they started it---yes I was thinking about them [maybe they had a spy in my brain--I've seen the Matrix you know ] but had no plans any time soon), my BB score was 34! YIKES!! I looked at the FAQ--I got points for DoWing England with no CB, but I took no provinces from them (only colonies and I saw no points for that listed in the FAQ). I got points for taking the 6 provinces, but since they DoW'ed me, that should have been 6 points, not 12. Right? 2 more for Naples. Simply not sure what happened there. Am I doomed to be DoW'ed by everyone?

My impression was that colonies and TPs both count as provinces for the purpose of BB in diplo annexation/inheritance, do they also count in peace deals? (Except that in the latest beta patches, TPs no longer count for diploannexation/inheritance.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
In that department, I was already looking at all the possible vassels. I was wondering about letting Rome go. I wondered if that would make everyone happy with me by allowing the Pope to go free. I know if I would do it if I could give them the other province as well, but sadly it's only allowing me the one province. But will that help me greatly or only just a 1BB drop? If only one point, is it worth it?

While owning Rome, all other catholics in the world get free CB on you in perpetuity. That plus your now sky-high BB is a BAD thing. Free the Pope!

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
And the penalty---10 to revolt? You never told me that part. Gulp! But even if I released the 3 Netherlands provinces, I'd still get hammered in a bunch of other places.

Be very glad. Dutch revolts were much, much worse in EU1. Did you have the option Spain does, of taking a -2 stab hit plus loss of lots of cash to reduce the revolt risk to only 5 (much more manageable).

It sounds as if you've made the very common mistake of taking more than you are ready to administer and defend. There are lots of angry nations out there now, many of whom have CB on you. I'd suggest that you take a good look at your empire and prioritize -- what places must you hold, and what places can you afford to lose. Release vassals where it makes the most sense (Rome and the Netherlands are two good places to start). Then concentrate on building your economy and anything that doesn't get you more BB for a long while... (or until you are strong enough that the BB problems don't bother you...)
__________________
lawkeeper

Gosh, carlec, you're amazing. You learn really quickly, are you sure you're a newbie ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Here are my questions, post war---
Though I took 3 of 4 provinces from Naples, my warscore (with them alone) was only 23% or something. Why? Not that I wanted to take the whole place, but I found that curious. I looked and did not see any other colonies or anything. In the end, (though I thought many times not to take any provinces), I offered them Roma and the one beside Roma [my thought was to block them off from bothering me any more], but that offer was like 22% of the 23-24%. They took it much to my surprise.
Warscore doesn't reflect your hold on their lands. Only counts the economical value of the provinces controlled, and the result of the battles, for both sides. You can achieve 100% by completely controlling their provinces, otherwise you're limited to 99% (and you could get to 99% with really only a couple of rich provinces of a big country, like 7-8 of coastal Russia around 1800). It's really amazing it accepted the deal (let me understand fully, you took Roma and Marche, right ? think about releasing the Pope maybe, to avoid the CB from all catholics).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Dealing with Spain--when I talked to them as the leader of the alliance with me as leader, none of the Naples places were offered (this was before I made the above deal). The fact that I had taken the places was listed in the warscore, but not on the list of provinces I could take. I was expecting them all to be listed.
Because you can ask provinces in peace deals only when negociating with the owner. You can't ask to the warleader provinces of its allies. Not anymore, at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Also, at no point did it offer me the chance to give a province to Portugal. Portugal has gotten big in Brazil, but smacked around by rebels in the homeland so that 2 provinces defected to Spain. I suppose they have no money for an army. Anyway, I took one of those places and was planning to give it to Portugal, but never had the chance.
Likewise, you can't give provinces to your allies if they don't control them. And if they control some, you can't ask them for yourself, even if they are your cores.
You can usually only ask for provinces you control, unless they are your cores (but then, they 'cost' twice the warscore they would have if you had controlled them).
Same goes when you're offering provinces (when you lose).

Hmmm, I wouldn't actually consider it cheating to ask the provinces, and to edit the savegame to give the provinces to them. Reduce the BB by 1/province, and give you a bit of cash if need be, to simulate the 'purchase'.

Quote:
After offering Spain a peace deal (mentioned above, with me taking Brabant, Luxembourg, Aragon, Sardinia and the two northern Atlantic provinces closest to mine) 3 TIMES, she finally turns right around and offers me a BETTER peace deal (same 6 provices plus 2 of the Caribbean places that I wasn't even wanting to keep). Is this just some failure on the part of the AI?
When you ask a peace, you always have to ask less than the warscore if you want to see it accepted with good chances. Same goes when you're losing the war, you have to offer more than warscore.
See it as IRL : the country initiating the peace negociations can be seen as exhausted, and longing for peace. So, enemies are harsher.
Same goes for the AI : they frequently will ultimately offer you more than you could ask. That's why it's much more interesting to be patient, if you can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
In all of this, somehow I got totally CREAMED in the BB department. When the war with England started, I was at 17 or so. I know that's high, but anyway. Yet when I was done with Spain (remember, they started it---yes I was thinking about them [maybe they had a spy in my brain--I've seen the Matrix you know ] but had no plans any time soon), my BB score was 34! YIKES!! I looked at the FAQ--I got points for DoWing England with no CB, but I took no provinces from them (only colonies and I saw no points for that listed in the FAQ). I got points for taking the 6 provinces, but since they DoW'ed me, that should have been 6 points, not 12. Right? 2 more for Naples. Simply not sure what happened there. Am I doomed to be DoW'ed by everyone?
You're not playing at Very Hard, are you ? Then, BB has few meaning, except diplomacy will be harder, and stability more costly.
Plus 8 provinces from Spain, 2 from Naples : 10 BB. 17 +10 = 27. 7 BB to find for the English war, or maybe 8 BB but a decrease of one during the years (4 years, approx ?), that's 2 provinces + the DoW.

Did you take any colonial cities from England ? colonies with more than 1000 inhabitants ? Those are cities, despite the name, and so cost 1 or 2 BB (depending on defensive/offensive war). Plus 4 for the no-CB DoW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
In that department, I was already looking at all the possible vassels. I was wondering about letting Rome go. I wondered if that would make everyone happy with me by allowing the Pope to go free. I know if I would do it if I could give them the other province as well, but sadly it's only allowing me the one province. But will that help me greatly or only just a 1BB drop? If only one point, is it worth it?
It will decrease BB by 1 point, but especially it will prevent the CB given to all catholics against the country owning Rome. It depends on the number of catholic countries you're wanna be friends with. Rome is rather rich, with a land connection it would give you a nice manpower. And it's great to think you own the Eternal City. And to slap the Pope whenever you want it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Finally, the Netherlands thing happened, but when I looked at the vassel thing it was only Holland, Gelre and the other one. Flanders wasn't a part of the deal. What gives? I'm not going to release them anyway, but was just wondering.
Flanders is not part of the provinces you give to Netherlands vassal, or from which Netherlands form. They only concern Holland, Zeeland, Gelre and Friesland. But you'll nonetheless get the RR. You could release Flanders, but they would be inherited by the Netherlands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
And the penalty---10 to revolt? You never told me that part. Gulp! But even if I released the 3 Netherlands provinces, I'd still get hammered in a bunch of other places.
Sorry, forgot it.
Seriously, what do you think the Dutch Revolts were ? It's exactly so, you'd need to release not only the Netherlands, but the other provinces too, and they would go to the Netherlands.

RR is not much. Place one or two armies (two, definitely, two at least, since you're playing 1.07 you get the monthly check of the RR). Have at least one siege going whenever a province goes to rebels hands, but the best is to crush the rebels beforehand. They're easy meat, you shouldn't even put maintenance to 100%.

You've got a BB of 34, haven't you ? Let the revolts go, and be at peace for that time, with only diplo-annexations going on when possible. IMHO, you've given a lesson to Spain, so keep your armies near to maximum supportable numbers, to avoid giving the AI the temptation to DoW you. Continue to develop your economy, keep on colonizing North America and explore other places. With an average of 1 BB per 4 years, the 80 years of dutch revolts will give you a decrease of 20. Only make wars against weak opponents (NA pagans, for instance, Aztecs, if still present, or european minors).
__________________
carlec

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
Gosh, carlec, you're amazing. You learn really quickly, are you sure you're a newbie ?

I'm honored! Don't forget that I'm 40, a history professor with a focus in Europe Renaissance - Napoleon (with passing knowledge to the present, particularly for England) and an avid war-gamer since I was 13 (ah, the good olds days of Avalon Hill)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
It's really amazing it accepted the deal (let me understand fully, you took Roma and Marche, right ? think about releasing the Pope maybe, to avoid the CB from all catholics).

Yes I was amazed too! And like I said, initially I wasn't going to take anything, but then I thought "why leave them a direct land bridge right back to me" especially since they started it by attacking me in Milan. I tried White Peace with them, BUT NOOOO! :rolf: So, I had to teach them a lesson! And yes, I was thinking of releasing the Pope, but didn't think about the CB thing, was more hoping for about a -10 in BB and +100 from all good Catholics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
Hmmm, I wouldn't actually consider it cheating to ask the provinces, and to edit the savegame to give the provinces to them. Reduce the BB by 1/province, and give you a bit of cash if need be, to simulate the 'purchase'.

Well, I'm not the programmer in these things and you've all played much longer to know about balance and all with the AI, but it would seem that if we were in an alliance and my armies took a province for you and you really were my ally (I'm thinking MP style at this moment), of course I'd want you to have it. A stronger Portugal on Spain's other flank HELPS me and I don't have to deal with the culture and nationalism. Particularly this is true since I'm the alliance leader. I don't see the point then in every negotiating as "alliance leader" expept to raise the warscore deal. I guess that could be important in a more equal contest, but. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper

You're not playing at Very Hard, are you ? Then, BB has few meaning, except diplomacy will be harder, and stability more costly.
Plus 8 provinces from Spain, 2 from Naples : 10 BB. 17 +10 = 27. 7 BB to find for the English war, or maybe 8 BB but a decrease of one during the years (4 years, approx ?), that's 2 provinces + the DoW.

Did you take any colonial cities from England ? colonies with more than 1000 inhabitants ? Those are cities, despite the name, and so cost 1 or 2 BB (depending on defensive/offensive war). Plus 4 for the no-CB DoW.

Boom--there it is; you and Morlac explain it. That info needs to be put into the FAQ for, unless I missed it, it's not there. It should clearly say "taking a colony counts x" "taking a TP counts x" and so on. I did take 2 colonial cities (Quebec and Isle Royal). And no, I'm playing on normal or maybe on easy. Wanted to keep it light at first, so I'm not letting my "skill" go to my head. My next game will be at hard or very hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
You've got a BB of 34, haven't you ? Let the revolts go, and be at peace for that time, with only diplo-annexations going on when possible. IMHO, you've given a lesson to Spain, so keep your armies near to maximum supportable numbers, to avoid giving the AI the temptation to DoW you. Continue to develop your economy, keep on colonizing North America and explore other places. With an average of 1 BB per 4 years, the 80 years of dutch revolts will give you a decrease of 20. Only make wars against weak opponents (NA pagans, for instance, Aztecs, if still present, or european minors).

Alrighty then---got the plan. Hopefully I'll be able to keep England out of those last northern Canadian provinces (I think England is pretty beat up and if I wanted to take her out, I'm sure I could). I'm trying to avoid too much non-historical stuff, so taking out England is not my desire. I may regret that later, but we'll see. Due to both wars, I'm a bit over my monarch's admin (2nd of the lousy brothers--come on Henry III and IV), so I can't really expand there, so I need to finish off the TPs and colonies quickly.
__________________
Morlac
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Boom--there it is; you and Morlac explain it. That info needs to be put into the FAQ for, unless I missed it, it's not there. It should clearly say "taking a colony counts x" "taking a TP counts x" and so on. I did take 2 colonial cities (Quebec and Isle Royal). And no, I'm playing on normal or maybe on easy. Wanted to keep it light at first, so I'm not letting my "skill" go to my head. My next game will be at hard or very hard.

Colony and Colonial City are really not at all the same thing. In the old days the emphasis was more on the "City" part of that phrase (and if you look in the logbook, the colonial cities will show up as "Non-colonial" possessions.

Quote:
Do I get BB for DoW on Pagans? Back to trying to get the infamous CB from a the natives. They are nervous over there as they are starting to ally and build armies, but their tech is so far behind, its pretty embarrasing.
No BB for DoW pagans.

Quote:
I'm just now starting the process with TCs (can you believe Spain had not raised tax collectors in her core provinces of Castille)? Amazing.
Not at all -- tax collectors and judges are wiped clean in the latest patches when provinces change hands. The poor blighters just run for the hills when the new flag hoists...
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Quick question then I must get to sleep. The Friesen place was overturned and just like that, the new nation of The Netherlands was formed. And, guess what, they took two of my provinces from me.
It's a scripted event - if the Netherlands forms, you need France, England, Austria and Spain (and Burgundy, if it still exists) have to cede their provinces to them, unless you converted to Protestant or Reformed. You should get the message though, the same when you get any other event. It has nothing to do with rebels.

Quote:
I find it quite interesting that the provinces just "go" all by themselves. I don't mind dealing with the rebels, but heck, half the time I'm not even given a chance to respond before its gone away.
Not sure what you mean. The province needs to be rebel-controlled for some 3-4 years before you lose. They normally don't just go by themselves. Dutch provinces is a very special case.

Quote:
I wonder if I still have Zeeland because it was mine; maybe both Geldre and Holland had both turned over.
The provinces you have to give up if Holland forms are Friesen, Geldre, Holland and Zeeland - so even if you had Zeeland, you don't anymore.
__________________
carlec

Quote:
Originally Posted by robin74

Not sure what you mean. The province needs to be rebel-controlled for some 3-4 years before you lose. They normally don't just go by themselves. Dutch provinces is a very special case.

I mean, I'll get a pop up that says something like "bad news, rebels have been sighted in _________" and at the exact same time (my speed is normal) I'll get a second pop up saying "we've lost control of the province."

So, I move my nearest army there (it has happened even with me HAVING an army IN THE PROVINCE), defeat the rebels and then I have to siege the province. They've not held it for more than a week at most (if I have to move an army, maybe 2 weeks).

Now in other places, the rebels will show up and start to siege me. I can see the little green line under the city and if I wait long enough, it will turn yellow indicating that they are taking over. But in the above cases, it is instantaneous!
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I mean, I'll get a pop up that says something like "bad news, rebels have been sighted in _________" and at the exact same time (my speed is normal) I'll get a second pop up saying "we've lost control of the province."
Yes, it sometimes happens. It doesn't matter how long they controlled it. You might just as well have the army stationed in the province as start sieging on the same day you lost control - you would still have to go through a normal siege process. That's how it is. Sometimes rebels only pop up and have to siege your province and sometimes they gain control right away and it's you who has to win it back.

I think it's more likely you will instantly lose control when rebels pop up if the province revolt risk is high, but I'm not really sure how it's decided.

And I don't really think you lose control instantly half of the time Check you religious tolerance sliders if you have serious problems with that - maybe you're opressing Protestants too much or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
But does having Protestant down low hurt by deal with the Reformed people?
No. From the point of view of religious tolerance sliders these two are treated as completely different religions for Catholic nations. So even if you set Protestant low, it won't hurt your Reformed provinces.

Quote:
And, still looking for opinion about whether or not to counter-attack the Netherlands or let it alone, just let it be. Maybe raise relations and bring them into alliance?
I think you want them sooner of later, they are rich provinces, with a shipyard and a CoT - whether you prefer to do it by force or bringing them back peacefully - do whatever you feel would be more fun for you
__________________
carlec

Quote:
Originally Posted by robin74

The provinces you have to give up if Holland forms are Friesen, Geldre, Holland and Zeeland - so even if you had Zeeland, you don't anymore.

You were right about that one. I started up and immediately was told Zeeland was gone. Sigh. Funny, there was an army of about 15000 rebels there and the Netherlands only has a tiny army. I was thinking, you know if you guys had just waited, I would have crushed that army.
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
nothing that happened was saved, but I got advance vision of what would happen.
Don't you have yearly autosave on?

Quote:
Now, how long does it take before they will become vassels?[/]i

They won't become your vassals by themselves. You need to have a Royal Marriage first, then you can try to vassalize them.
What religion are they? If they revolted as a Reformed nation, then you have to wait until Edict of Tolerance (1650s) before you can try to vassalize them peacefully.

Quote:
And if I need a RM, they are Protestant so I can't do that can I? Does that mean I won't get to diplo-vassel them?
Right.
If they are Protestant, you won't be able to diploannex them before 1650s anyway (unless you go to war with them, convert and hope they won't go back to Protestant - they probably would). Right now there is no way for you to diplovassalize - if they ever drop the alliance you might consider attacking and forcing them to become your vassals, but that may prove difficult if they establish colonies by then.

Quote:
But if I go to war with them, once again I'll get hammered in the BB category won't I?
You only get BB for declaring a war and getting non-core provinces. But you don't want any provinces. If you have a CB against them it's 1BB, if you don't it's 4 BB for declaring the war. If you don't have a Casus Belli you could get one either by getting yourself embargoed from their Center of Trade or by getting them to your alliance and then making them drop it (by declaring wars on some American Pagans and asking them to join, for example - they hardly ever do, and declaring war on Pagans doesn't give you BB).

Quote:
And I'll need to conquer every province (shouldn't be too hard) and then take NOTHING, but only demand vasselization. Right?
That depends on how much you care about BB - if you don't have any right now, you might just as well get some provinces.

Quote:
Netherlands will build a shipyard and also start to compete with me in the colonies.
They get a shipyard by event in 1600.

 

[ProfCC]

CURRENT SETTING FROM CARLEC

Well, its about 1602-3 (something like that) and things are great. Again, remember I'm playing normal or easy or something like that. I'm itching to stop and re-start at a harder level, but I also really want to see how far this goes.

I have colonized the full East Coast, taking out the Creeks in the meantime to form a solid line of colonies/cities from New Orleans through Quebec. There are still some northern Canadian provinces that are neutral and remain around 50% for TPs. I have taken all of the Great Lakes area and are close to closing off the Mississippi. It appears that none of the Pagans have developed at all nor have they attempted to expand (fairly historical though groups like the Dakota and the Creeks certainly had grown---I was a bit sad that the Choctaws, the Fox, the Chickasaw among others were not included as nations). I got a second explorer, so I raced him around to California. Since there really isn't any more Canada to get, I thought "why not beat Spain to that West Coast gold." Though Spain certainly is up through Texas/New Mexico, they have NOT taken the West Coast. Not sure yet, but looks like England is over there, but again, since there is no "middle" for Canada or NA, then I guess I don't have to worry about them coming east.

In Europe, I am watching Austria fall apart and constantly seeing my alliance struggle over it. Actually I lost Portugal when Spain got an event that force-vassaled Portugal. I wonder if eventually Portugal will throw them off or be taken over? If Spain does diplo-annex, then she will be big indeed. I have diplo-vasseled Modena and plan on diplo-annexing them to bring my Italian provinces together. Remember, I got the West Coast of Italy (old Papal States land that had been conquered by Naples) in that war with Spain. I took out Tuscany (she was one province and a vassel of Naples, but in no alliance--curious, though she was a vassel, Modena was her vassel--I thought that illegal). So, once I diplo-annex Modena, then I will be in control of much of Italy. Sometime in the future (post religious conflict), I will diplo-annex the Netherlands too.

QUESTION SERIES #24
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
it shows colonization at like 74% or something like that (this is Arkansas I think). But if I click on that place exclusively, it greys out. What is up with that?
You can only colonize if
- a province borders a sea or one of the Great Lakes;
- or it borders one of your cities (ie a province having 1000 or more people);
- or it is in Siberia corridor and borders one of your cities, colonies or trading posts.

Quote:
In 1589, I did not get 4 random religious changes. I got one--Bearn.
That's strange, because depending on the choices you made in the War of Religion event in 1562, you should either get none if you went with Catholic, or 4 if you went if either one of other choices.

Quote:
I was wondering if the event actually only converts those southern France reformed provinces.
No, it chooses either Paris and three random provinces (if you chose Reformed in wars of religion) or four random provinces (if you chose CRC). It could choose the same province twice (or more), too - the provinces are drawn independently and can be chosen more than once, even if you have four or more unconverted provinces.

Quote:
On the colonization side of things, I have far more colonies than Henry IV's admin rating (5 stars). I thought I could only colonize admin rating + 2.
No, you can colonize every single uncolonized province, but if you go above the limit, you get the penalty to the success probability.

Quote:
What happens to the future USA if I own all the provinces?
It depends. Same thing as would happen if anyone other owned them. Either they will not form, or they will revolt and declare independence the same as any other revolter nation would, or you could release them as a vassal.

Quote:
Russia and the Ottoman Empire have both grown large. At what point (if any) do I worry about them?
If you don't plan expansion in the East or if you are much more technologically advanced than they are (which you should) - you don't worry about them.

Quote:
I took out Tuscany (she was one province and a vassel of Naples, but in no alliance--curious, though she was a vassel, Modena was her vassel--I thought that illegal)
No, it's not. What you can't do is that you can't successfully diplovassalize a country that has vassals itself.

Quote:
Well, back to the warzone. Trying to bring the BB score down before dealing with the Iroquis, the Shawnee and the Cherokee (last pagans in East Coast).
You're not getting any BB for wars with Pagans or taking provinces from them.
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
In a few colonies, I am not allowed to colonize. When I click the colonization button and just move the mouse over, it shows colonization at like 74% or something like that (this is Arkansas I think). But if I click on that place exclusively, it greys out. What is up with that? It has happened in a few other places. I did have an army run through there and ended up killing the natives. I even brought in a conquistador and he did not help things. It is frustrating as there are two of those places side by side and they are the missing link to finishing the Mississippi development.

You may colonize only coastal provinces or provinces adjacent to one of your colonial cities (or cities already). I guess you only have TPs or colonies (under 1000 pop) up to Arkansas, and that's the problem. This is the reason why you have to colonize all coasts first : without coastal provinces to reach, other countries will be stuck out of NA.
Mind the Great Lakes : the surrounding provinces are coastal, and you may implant colonies there even without access to the other coasts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
In 1589, I did not get 4 random religious changes. I got one--Bearn. That was nice, but I was counting on those 4 and had "saved" Bern and Flanders assuming the computer would check to see which 4 places I had. I think I did have some other pagan places, but they didn't change either. Since the event in 1589 was dealing with the War of the 3 Henry's and that involves Navarre and Bourbon, I was wondering if the event actually only converts those southern France reformed provinces. That would make the most sense to me. If so, I could have saved some money and not converted those places, waiting on the event. You guys are so rarely wrong, but I could think of nothing I had done. Any ideas?

Ugh. You made the choice of Catholic Moderates in the 1562 event. You should have chosen one of the other, even if converting back to catholic immediately (but choosing CRC would give different monarchs). I didn't think you would get past this event without asking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
On the colonization side of things, I have far more colonies than Henry IV's admin rating (5 stars). I thought I could only colonize admin rating + 2. I'm still getting the option and the option level does not seem to be that bad off compared to earlier times. Just curious.
You may still colonize, but you get a penalty (and colonies are only those under 1000 pop).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Why does the map not contain all of Canada? Somewhere earlier, I was advised to either 2 of 3 (east coast, Canada, Mississippi). So, when I got another explorer, I ran back up to Canada to make sure I got it all and promptly discovered that, well, there wasn't any more to discover. Did they just get bored with putting in provinces or that part of the world really never came into play in our time period? Just curious because it fully tweaked by actions later.
No, you can't get past Bay of Hudson. Passage was nearly impossible during this era, and so they didn't put more provinces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
What happens to the future USA if I own all the provinces?
If they revolt from you, they'll appear. But the set of events of England won't have any meaning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Russia and the Ottoman Empire have both grown large. At what point (if any) do I worry about them?
Russia is too far away to matter, and OE will only compete you in the Mediterranean if you want to get those eastern islands. But both with greatly hamper Poland, Austria (well, as they are your ally, it could matter, but don't be too attached to them), Sweden, etc, which are more direct opponents. So, it's better to have OE and Russia growing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I have colonized the full East Coast, taking out the Creeks in the meantime to form a solid line of colonies/cities from New Orleans through Quebec. There are still some northern Canadian provinces that are neutral and remain around 50% for TPs. I have taken all of the Great Lakes area and are close to closing off the Mississippi. It appears that none of the Pagans have developed at all nor have they attempted to expand (fairly historical though groups like the Dakota and the Creeks certainly had grown---I was a bit sad that the Choctaws, the Fox, the Chickasaw among others were not included as nations). I got a second explorer, so I raced him around to California. Since there really isn't any more Canada to get, I thought "why not beat Spain to that West Coast gold." Though Spain certainly is up through Texas/New Mexico, they have NOT taken the West Coast. Not sure yet, but looks like England is over there, but again, since there is no "middle" for Canada or NA, then I guess I don't have to worry about them coming east.
California is interesting, but fierce competition can erupt (with Spain & England), and IMO you have enough to colonize in the east half (more than half as a matter of fact) of NA. Remember Louisiana, Florida and California (and the lands between) are ToT lands, and Spain could steal your provinces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
In Europe, I am watching Austria fall apart and constantly seeing my alliance struggle over it. Actually I lost Portugal when Spain got an event that force-vasseled Portugal. I wonder if eventually Portugal will throw them off or be taken over? If Spain does diplo-annex, then she will be big indeed. I have diplo-vasseled Modena and plan on diplo-annexing them to bring my Italian provinces together. Remeber, I got the West Coast of Italy (old Papal States land that had been conquered by Naples) in that war with Spain. I took out Tuscany (she was one province and a vassel of Naples, but in no alliance--curious, though she was a vassel, Modena was her vassel--I thought that illegal). So, once I diplo-annex Modena, then I will be in control of much of Italy. Sometime in the future (post religious conflict), I will diplo-annex the Netherlands too.
Normally, Portugal will get an event to break the vassalization.
Let go Austria if it crumbles. It's really warmongering, and if it crumbles it's not so useful. Ally with one or two other biggies (Sweden, England - now you've got their colonies -, or maybe even Russia or OE) and with miinors you're gonna diplo-annex someday.
__________________
carlec

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
You may colonize only coastal provinces or provinces adjacent to one of your colonial cities (or cities already). I guess you only have TPs or colonies (under 1000 pop) up to Arkansas, and that's the problem. This is the reason why you have to colonize all coasts first : without coastal provinces to reach, other countries will be stuck out of NA.
Mind the Great Lakes : the surrounding provinces are coastal, and you may implant colonies there even without access to the other coasts.
Yep--that was it. Silly newbie. Working on it now!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
Ugh. You made the choice of Catholic Moderates in the 1562 event. You should have chosen one of the other, even if converting back to catholic immediately (but choosing CRC would give different monarchs). I didn't think you would get past this event without asking.

LOL haha---yeah, that would had been good info to know. I had no idea you could convert and then switch back. You guys had seemed to imply that switching was a big deal and would get me lots of revolts, so I just stayed Catholic. NO worries. Just means that Bern and Flanders are STILL reformed.

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #25
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
About the TOT, I'm remembering that and as soon as I make it a city, I am building fortifications and leaving some troops there or nearby. That ends soon though (I think). I played a ton more last night and it's almost 1630. I need to provide you a snapshot so you can see my sliders to make sure I'm where I need to be. I think I am at the place where they need to stay, though I'm probably still too high in aristocracy.
ToT stops with the Edicts of Tolerance event (the big one, not particular ones, - after 1650, that is).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
All your advice about economy was PERFECT as I am able to dwarf anyone else in the economic field. I have 3-5 traders in most places and am able to build any manu in about 2-3 years if I want. My inflation is sitting around 1% and I have tons of places to put in governors if I want. All of my European side has CJ and TC. Most of my NA side has CJ and TC and I'm building, building, building.

Aaaah, the 1.07. please note readers, I was playing this in 1.07--still MOST info is still pertinent!

If you update to 1.08 later, remember that the effect of governors on inflation has changed. Greatly. Now, you should really build governors everywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
When/if I diplo-annex Netherlands, I'll get all their provinces, right?
Right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
My economic focus should be land and naval tech, right? Nothing big to shoot for on the other two? I can build everything but weapons manus and that is a land/army tech issue.
When the cost is reasonable (twenty years of investment or under), you may always invest in trade or infra. There's no need to have a huge far ahead penalty, but higher TE/PE will make you receive even more money from trade and colonies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Austria certainly is wracked with internal issues, facing her second civil war in 20 years. Interesting--I'm sure I could crush them and the rest if I wanted to go that way.
If they have some provinces you want, they're there for the taking.
Or you could force-vassalize, then diplo-annex Austria. But this would put you on the frontline against the OE. So, let them crumble, but do not replace them. Unless you want to go crusading...

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Back to the Netherlands---getting close to 1630--are there any other hidden secrets you guys haven't told me about them and Flanders? What I am expecting is to get an event telling me Flanders has developed into a core of mine and all revolts there go away. AND, I am expecting some kind of issue with the Netherlands that will make them prime and ready for me to diplo-annex. I don't want to take them too soon (religion, culture), but I don't want to wait too late as to make it too hard. Guidance again gentlemen.
You should force-vassalize them now, before they're too strong. This would make you able to diplo-annex them right after the Edicts of Tolerance event.
__________________
carlec

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
You should force-vassalize them now, before they're too strong. This would make you able to diplo-annex them right after the Edicts of Tolerance event.

I did that back in the late 1580s when they first formed. I went back and forth about doing it nicely or with force and decided (with Robin's .02) to just use force, so they've been my vassels since then. But when is the Edict of Tolerance event--1648? And I want to do that immediatly after, right?

And Flanders? They'll just convert to me? Again, just trying to ensure that I don't miss any, shall we say, hidden steps that I SHOULD take. hahaha
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
But when is the Edict of Tolerance event--1648?
On a random day in 1650s.
The more you reload, the sooner it will happen (but that's exploity if you reload for the purpose of getting it sooner)

Quote:
And Flanders? They'll just convert to me? Again, just trying to ensure that I don't miss any, shall we say, hidden steps that I SHOULD take. hahaha
No hidden steps. As long as you had at least one of the Dutch revolt events, Flanders will simply convert to whatever your state religion is. Also, your centralization will increase by 3 and your stability will increase by 3, you will gain 300d and the revolt risk in the Dutch provinces will go away.
__________________
carlec

Playing 1.07 version (Mac) [for those coming in late]. Question about the governors--I thought the main deal was dropping the inflation. I have done that, with my current inflation hovering around 1% (it's 1630ish). So, I was saving putting in any new governors till I needed it (meaning, inflation rising.) lawkeeper, you wrote this:

"you should really should build governors everywhere."

You attribute that fact to playing 1.07. I don't understand. Can you please explain.
__________________
robin74
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
"you should really should build governors everywhere."
I think lawkeeper forgot you're playing 1.07

IIRC, governors will also increase the population growth of a province by 1 point. But seriously, the major reason for building them is to get inflation down. Once you accrued one point of inflation, build another one. If you built it everywhere, you would have to get some new land before you could get inflation down again.
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by robin74
I think lawkeeper forgot you're playing 1.07

Nope. My exact quote was :"Now, you should really build governors everywhere."

The now designates the present now, as of the last patch (and even a bit earlier for the 1.07b). [edit--1.08 note--see Morlac's reply below]
__________________
Morlac
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Playing 1.07 version (Mac) [for those coming in late]. Question about the governors--I thought the main deal was dropping the inflation. I have done that, with my current inflation hovering around 1% (it's 1630ish). So, I was saving putting in any new governors till I needed it (meaning, inflation rising.) lawkeeper, you wrote this:

"you should really should build governors everywhere."

You attribute that fact to playing 1.07. I don't understand. Can you please explain.

What he said was that "Now, you should build governors everywhere" -- "Now" meaning under 1.08 and later. Not "Now" meaning "where you are in your 1.07 game at this moment."

Under 1.08 and later, governors effect on inflation is quite different. The game calculates the ratio of governors you've appointed in each city and colonial city. At 100% appointments, you get a -0.25% inflation rate added to whatever you are running by gold, minting, etc. (So if you are minting at 0.15% and have full governors, your inflation rate is actually -0.10%, which can subtract from your accumulated inflation.) At anything less than 100% appointments you get the ratio of appointments x -0.25% (so if you have half appointments, you have -0.125%)

No longer do you get the lovely and simple benefit of -1% to your accumulated inflation rate per governor appointed. This makes it much nicer for small countries, much worse for large ones...

 

[ProfCC]

CURRENT SETTING FROM CARLEC


I think we are moving along nicely, though I quit right before the Flanders event. In my head, that was happening in the 1630s and I was about to ask about it. But I re-read all my notes that I've got from our chats here (hi there ryoken69 and admiral drake--welcome and I'm honored to have such a distinguished guest invite me to the table--I might take you up on it at least from the economic POV--I've read your guide and it still seems like I'm guessing a ton) and I saw where my most faithful and distinguished guides (lawkeeper and robin74) told me that it happens in 1648. Makes sense, post 30 years war.

Quickly so as not to bore everyone, I've been faithfully going at the sheridan plan (where is that guy?) of colonization and staying out of Europe's issues. I seem to be able to run about 8-10 colonies at once and I'm pretty sure I've mapped about everything and my competitors have not. Of course it helps to know where things are (as a human); I can see how that would play a big role and difference in MP. I didn't include a screenshot of this part, but I've got 4 colonies in Australia and 3 colonies in Indonesia and Hawaii. I also have 2 colonies in South American (mostly for the naval base aspect) and St. Helena and the islands north of there (near the African bulge). Worldwide I dwarf everyone else and when I take the Netherlands in 3 -5 years, that will be even bigger.

In Europe, I've played nice with Spain who stole Portugal from me. Austria grew large then fell apart and is struggling. The German minors still exist and I have no plans to go get them. I was leaving Italy out of it till Naples drug me in (to see that story, back up 2-3 pages of the thread), so to connect my new lands that I surprisingly got, I took Tuscany and then diplo-annexed Modena. I was leaving Sienna alone, but she got into an alliance with Hungary and Croatia (two places that escaped from Austria), so when they attacked Austria, Sienna unwisely got my attention by attacking me. Bad move. I couldn't get her then, but as soon as the truce was up, she sent me a diplomatic slur giving me the CB. Woo-hoo (I've learned my lesson on that front). At the same time, I got a border deal with the last remaining NA pagan, the Iroquois who had conveniently annexed the Shawnee for me, and that gave me a temporary CB with them. Yes! With all the previous pagans, I just took the stability hit. It seemed like the height of bad play to intentionally invite them into an alliance and then declare war somewhere else in the hopes that they would break the alliance. Very underhanded to me, so anyway, I was glad to get the CB.

So here I sit a few moments from getting Flanders and then the Netherlands and ending all these silly uprisings. My BB is around 25-27 (I didn't annex Sienna--see, I'm learning--did the vassel thing and will diplo-annex in 15-20 years). I'm building all the manus like ordered. Land tech is around 22-23, naval is there too, I just got protectionism? in trade and, uh, level 6 or 7 in infrastructure. Inflation is still around 1%.

I have England trapped on the West Coast and Spain shut out in the south. I'm south of Portugal in S. America and alone in Australia/New Guniea. I still have 6-10 provinces in NA to deal with at my leisure. Russia has grown quite large, but we have a RM and are friends. Sweden and Russia are headed for the Great Northern War, so I'm staying out of that, but can see a future day when either Russia and I ally or fight.

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #26
__________________
lawkeeper

After the diplo-annexation of the Netherlands, another possible nice move would be to get in a defensive war against Denmark, get some provinces, and release a pair of vassals if you don't want german provinces. At worst, you won't keep the vassals long, but Denmark will be seriously weakened.
__________________
robin74

Quote:
The mouse over says "you need naval tech 21." Well, in my version, naval tech 18 actually gives the navy "expanded sight at sea" and naval 21 was something else, not dealing with unknown lands. ANyway, I'm at 22 or 23 like I said and I still can't take my navy into uncharted water.
It's a typo that's been long refused to be fixed and was finally corrected in 1.08. You need naval tech 27 to explore with all navies.
__________________
Nocuous

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
If I were you, I'd diplo-annex Navarre. And maybe even try Venice (either diplo- or force-vassalize).

After the diplo-annexation of the Netherlands, another possible nice move would be to get in a defensive war against Denmark, get some provinces, and release a pair of vassals if you don't want german provinces. At worst, you won't keep the vassals long, but Denmark will be seriously weakened.
I would not bother with either Navarre or Denmark. Navarre is not very rich, is wrong culture and probably wrong religion. If you have the diplomats you can by all means diplo-vassalise them (if they are not allready your vassals), but they are not worth the BB for annexing them.

As for the war with Denmark. If you don't want the provinces (and why would you), I don't think it is worth the hassle. If they keep their german provinces they can provide a buffer against Sweden (even if you don't really need it).

My first priority in your situation would be a war against Spain. I would then grab the provinces on the Gulf coast in order to get a border with the Aztec. If they have taken the Incas I would grab some of the gold provinces there, or if they have left them alone I would grab some provinces to get a border with the Incas as well. Depending on the number of provinces that you have to take in order to follow this strategy I would also try to take Andalusia and Toledo (two of the best provinces in the game).

The next step is then to get all the American gold!
__________________
lawkeeper

Something you could want to keep under your sight, in case you want to steal spanish provinces. Keep a close look on their colonies. When/if you see some revolts start, DoW Spain, sink all their boats, let the rebels take control of all the spanish colonies, and keep the war raging for four years after the nearest provinces are taken by rebels. You may also go in and kill their colonial armies, to prevent Spain from crushing the rebels. Don't take any spanish provinces, not until the rebelled colonies start defecting to you (for no BB and no nationalism). Then, go for the kill, to take their colonial islands in the Caraibbeans (sp?).
__________________
Daniel A
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I seem to be able to run about 8-10 colonies at once and I'm pretty sure I've mapped about everything and my competitors have not.

Quiz-time carlec!
You claim to have mapped "about everything"... Well...

Q1 How many Gold provinces have you found in the colonies?
Q2 What are their names?
Q3 How many have you started colonising?

Correct answers will be rewarded!
2 correct = You will get a tip about your naval slider position
3 correct = You will get a tip about the wisdom of having 0-1% inflation
__________________
carlec

On to the quiz. . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel A
Quiz-time carlec!

You claim to have mapped "about everything"... Well...

Q1 How many Gold provinces have you found in the colonies?
Q2 What are their names?
Q3 How many have you started colonising?

Let's see how I do.
1. I have found 12 of 13 gold provinces in the American colonies.
2. Yukon, Monterey, Jalisco, Saltillo, Muchuacan, Tenochtitlan [all North America] and Azuay, Ayacucho, Cuzco, Yatumal, Guyana, and Mato grosso [all South America]. There are about 5-7 provinces that I have not mapped in South America and at least one of them is a gold province, south of Cuzco (btw, that is the province/area that the Disney people used for their movie The Emperor's New Groove where the main person, the emperor, was named Cuzco). I have not mapped all of the Dakota territory, so it's possible that another gold province is in there, as well as perhaps another one in those hidden SA territories
3. I am currently colonizing the Yukon and Monterey.

For the record, the Aztec's control all 4 of the remaining NA gold Pacific territories. Chimu controls Azuay. The Inca's control Ayacucho and Cuzco as well as that other hidden province. Yatumal is still neutral (silly Spanish). Guyana is owned by Spain and Mato grosso is controlled by Portugal.
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Hey gang--thanks for all the ideas and advice. Can't wait to move forward. I do see that confrontation with Spain as possible, but I wonder if I might wait on them to make the first move. Right now relations are so high that I'm sure they won't, but England probably will. I will need to strike them within 10 years to grab those 4 west coast colonies prior to them becoming big honkin' cities. Shouldn't be too hard.
Unless with real big BB, the AI will only DoW you if it feels it could win. To appraise the situation, it takes in account the military might. And I think you're very strong, and shouldn't be DoWed by anybody, unless you're already embroiled in a big long war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Questions about the Maya and Aztecs--Spain has basically left them alone with both having 4 provinces each. The Incas are very large and command a strong presence on the Pacific coast.
Then, annex them (how many gold provinces do Inca hold ; if I see correctly, Aztecs have their 4 gold provinces, is it so ?). No BB, pagans (easy to convert), nice position to strike at Spain later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I see your Spanish concept lawkeeper but (and this impacts everyone's thoughts about Navarre), they are in alliance with Portugal (P did release as vassals, but are in alliance), Navarre (with current army of about 50), Bavaria (looking very tough and content on Austria's north border) and Naples. Any war with Spain would be challenging coming on at least 4 fronts (Italy/Med, southern France/Iberia, east coast of France, and colonies). Not sure what Portugal would do, but so far in the few DoWs of mine, no computer company has bailed on their ally. Last thing I want right now is a 4-5 front war. I think I could prevail, particularly if it happened post-Netherlands annex, but there are a lot of places to cover.
On the naval front : regroup your fleets, and crush the AI's navies. The AI is crap at managing its fleets, and always splits them way to far.

Against Portugal : they won't do much. Look after their TPs/colonies and less defended colonial cities. Take as much as possible, and make a separate peace (you don't need many troops for this, and take some of their european provinces for warscore and maps). Either take a bunch of TPs/colonies, or burn some TPs (to replace them with your colonists) and take a few colonies/colonial cities. Favor the colonies (no BB).

Against Navarre : bring one of your best besiegers with lots of cannons before the war (put them in a mountains province - only cannons and infantry). Let the Navarre's army come out, and go in to siege/assault the province. You should be able to get their province before they take one of yours, then force-vassalize them in a separate peace. Your army may rejoin the spanish front.

Against Bavaria : do they have military access through Baden, Austria, or Denmark/Palatinate ? If not, either ask a military access to Baden or Austria, or let them out of the war. If yes, they'll probably attack Alsace or Bern through Baden, or Milan/Piemont through Austria. Place your army in Bern or Piemont, infantry & cannons, and cavalry only in Milan. Once they'll cross the Baden or Austrian provinces, you'll see where they go and move your army accordingly (if Alsace/Bern, they'll attack through a river, bad idea ).
After a few battles, propose a white peace.

Against Naples, just crush them with one army. Force-vassalize if you can take enough warscore, or make a more gentle peace. After that, ferry your army in small detachments to siege the spanish isles, where no troops stand.

Against Spain, sink all their navy. On the continent, two armies should be enough to take care of them and of Portugal. Do the usual trick of besieging several provinces at once. When Navarre is out (and Bavaria too), call in reinforcements. Take both Castile and Tago, capitals, for the maps.

Let me count : one army against Bavaria, one for Navarre, two for Spain/Portugal, one for Naples. That makes five. Add one army for security in the north of France. Each army some 50-60k strong. This makes a total of 360k at most. This shouldn't be to far above your support limit, if at all. And you could do with only one army against Spain and no norther reserve. You could also 'buy' separate peaces from Bavaria and Naples from the start, to reduce your need of armies, but this will reduce your possible benefits.

Navy is really important to safeguard your colonies, as you can't devote too many troops there. Just several small armies to keep your borders in Texas and take portuguese colonies/TPs, but that's all. Your fleets, after having sunk the enemy ships, will be useful ferrying your troops and blockading the ports (robin : I have a sudden doubt : the economic effects of blockade did appear in 1.07 or in the betas ?).
__________________
Daniel A

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec

On to the quiz. . .

Let's see how I do.
1. I have found 12 of 13 gold provinces in the American colonies.
2. Yukon, Monterey, Jalisco, Saltillo, Muchuacan, Tenochtitlan [all North America] and Azuay, Ayacucho, Cuzco, Yatumal, Guyana, and Mato grosso [all South America]. There are about 5-7 provinces that I have not mapped in South America and at least one of them is a gold province, south of Cuzco (btw, that is the province/area that the Disney people used for their movie The Emperor's New Groove where the main person, the emperor, was named Cuzco). I have not mapped all of the Dakota territory, so it's possible that another gold province is in there, as well as perhaps another one in those hidden SA territories
3. I am currently colonizing the Yukon and Monterey.


You have done well in America carlec! But how about the Pacific area....?

All three answers correct! That means I'll give you the tips

TIP 1
From my angle it appears it is your naval slider that needs to be moved. To the left. It gives you TE and colonists, the basis for making wealth since the gold provinces are so few; You do not need army moral. You slaughter your foes at the battlefield by use of your excellent tactical and strategical skill

TIP 2
The famous proverb of all inflation analysts of the game is:

If you do not have some inflation you are not minting enough!

Make your money work!

Have you converted all your pagan territories yet? That's one place to put the money. If you have, well then take some more
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel A
If you do not have some inflation you are not minting enough!
Once you reach infra 5, there really is no way to get inflation. No matter how much you mint, you can always counter it by extra governors (and remember, carlec is playing 1.07 - each governor decreases inflation by a point). He is minting - the reason for no inflation is that it was already reduced by governors.
__________________
Daniel A

Quote:
Originally Posted by robin74
Once you reach infra 5, there really is no way to get inflation. No matter how much you mint, you can always counter it by extra governors (and remember, carlec is playing 1.07 - each governor decreases inflation by a point). He is minting - the reason for no inflation is that it was already reduced by governors.

OK. He's playing without patches, I see. Well, even before the governor reform it was nice to have a few percent so that you could benefit from the best events there are!

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #27
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Yes, this was what I was looking at, but obviously, if I do that then I would have 2 more fronts with no clear connection to the rest of my North American empire. Currently mayas and Aztecs are in a war with Spain, but Spain seems to have no or little troops over there. I just saw Spain loading up an army in south Spain (which means she is basically empty there) so they are probably sailing over to deal with one or both places.

Well, perhaps I've been too "safe" but I've kept a certain army presence in every location of mine and have been riding over the limit for some time now. I couldn't really tell any effect of that other than economic and I wanted to have the troops where I needed them, when I needed them. So I even have 2 small armies in the Hawaiian Islands, I mean, really--everywhere I have a colony, I have at least one army. Most of the armies are only in 3-6 range, with my bigger armies being about 12-15. I never considered having giant armies. However, in any case, I could do what you propose, though I'm not sure I'm ready to.

Aaaargh. Why do you have two armies in Hawaii ?
Don't over-expand your military forces. You don't need permanent armies in most of your colonies, so ferry them somewhere else.
And you don't need big armies in America either, as you're not gonna take much lands. You may make your armies roam, taking undefended provinces, and moving. This will disrupt the AI ability to fight, and build your warscore. Additionnally, you don't want to get huge BB by conquering cities (or do you ?).

About the spoils of war, burn every TP down, and replace them by yours at the same time. Do this when no more army may threaten them, and you've sunk the opposing fleets, and you have a spare colonist. Take only colonies at the peace, so as to have nice french inhabitants later, when you've finished colonizing the provinces.

And about Aztec/Inca, now is perhaps a good time to strike at Spain, before you invade their lands. Doing so, you'd help both pagan nations to win a war against Spain (and sink the big army which is crossing the Atlantic).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I only have Austria and Sienna (soon to be annexed) as an ally. I am thinking about Russia who is growing quite large and we are friends. Or perhaps China as a new ally. But I really wanted to be through with most of my colonization before I jumped into a situation where I'd be callled to war after war far away from me. And I didn't want to put Austria into a situation where she'd have to bail from the alliance for no good reason to me.

Keep Austria (to fight Bavaria : you don't even need to let an army there), and seek first useful allies against the iberian alliance. From the map, I'd say Venice and England might be useful, along with the Papal States if they have a decent army (bigger than Napoli's). Otherwise, there're the Turks too...
It will be time later to change your allies to fight England. They don't seem very dangerous, colony-wise.
__________________
carlec

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
Aaaargh. Why do you have two armies in Hawaii ?
Additionnally, you don't want to get huge BB by conquering cities (or do you ?).
HAHAHA LOL You kill me. Well, I had them there to deal with revolts (for a while, it seemed I got them everywhere). And just a year ago, it helped as one sprung up in one of the islands. I mean, (still a newbie here), don't you need to be able to squash a revolt soon? I guess I could come back later, but why worry about that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
About the spoils of war, burn every TP down, and replace them by yours at the same time. Do this when no more army may threaten them, and you've sunk the opposing fleets, and you have a spare colonist. Take only colonies at the peace, so as to have nice french inhabitants later, when you've finished colonizing the provinces.

Uh, yeah, I'm confused now. I can't just run around burning TPs can I? I mean, you are telling me, with no DoW, to just land in Portugal/Spain's place and burn down their TP? And then once it happens (I assume you are telling me it's instantaneous), send my own colonist? Or is this during war? But then, as I found out fighting England, all I have to do is show up, so why would I burn it down when I'll get it at the peace? Sorry to be slow, but not seeing the strategy here (and I'm sure there is one, so please try again).

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper

And about Aztec/Inca, now is perhaps a good time to strike at Spain, before you invade their lands. Doing so, you'd help both pagan nations to win a war against Spain (and sink the big army which is crossing the Atlantic).
I thought about that, but I don't know. . . I've got several unfinished colonies, just getting over the war with the Iriquois so finishing war exhaustion and I've got high relations with both Spain and Portugal (both over 100). So I face the stability hit and the possibility that Portugal doesn't join in (I guess that wouldn't be too bad; maybe I could get them to join me). Plus I don't have my pieces in place--as best I can, I like to be very "ready" for my "next move" and my navy and army is strung out. Not dangerously IMO but too far to make an effective attack as you propose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawkeeper
Venice and England might be useful, along with the Papal States if they have a decent army (bigger than Napoli's). Otherwise, there're the Turks too...It will be time later to change your allies to fight England. They don't seem very dangerous, colony-wise.

All of those people hate me save the PS who are my vassels and no, they don't have a large army. I guess I could bring them in to the alliance to aid me against Naples. And the fact that England ISN'T too big (they do have a colony right beside my new places in South Africa and perhaps some in India or around there) seems to point at them as the best obvious next target. Quick easy target (need to double check their alliance--I think 2 German minors) and though I'll need to once again land troops in England to get the war score I need, it hasn't proven too hard so far. Cromwell is the new king for now, so that might be a factor to consider (good general and all that), but I should be able to swiftly sweep through all 5 colonies near me (oh, they have the Bahamas too and you guys said to leave that alone, so. . . ?), take 2-3 provinces in England and then peace with me taking the colonies. They hate me already so nothing changes, but me getting stronger.

Spain will always be there. But maybe you are right. . .
__________________
robin74

Quote:
But then, as I found out fighting England, all I have to do is show up, so why would I burn it down when I'll get it at the peace?
Because when you get territory in peace, your reputation suffers. Instead, you could simply burn the TPs, establish your own there, so you would have gained the same territory without destroying your reputation.
__________________
Incompetent

Quote:
Originally Posted by robin74
Because when you get territory in peace, your reputation suffers. Instead, you could simply burn the TPs, establish your own there, so you would have gained the same territory without destroying your reputation.

Huh? How does your reputation suffer from taking a TP in war? I burn TPs because it saves having to haggle for them at more than twice the WS you get for them; I never thought of it from a BB point-of-view.

What is a good idea is inciting natives in peace-time to destroy a TP/colony (if you don't consider it an exploit). That way you gain the territory and the clueless AI is none the wiser. Might not be such a good idea in MP though...
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by Incompetent
Huh? How does your reputation suffer from taking a TP in war?
My bad, I'm sorry. Taking TPs indeed doesn't influence your reputation.

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #28
__________________
robin74

Quote:
I'd have to up it some to get the RM in order to claim their throne (I never ever thought of that to try and get a CB--amazing strategy).
Actually, claiming a throne has some nasty consequences. With Portugal and Spain it's probably easier to get a casus belli by getting yourself embargoed from their CoTs.
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
About this whole burning the TP thing, even if I wait for an entire year sending no colonists, I'll still only have 6 at one time, so there is obviously no way that I can re-take all those places at once or even quickly (due to having too many TP/colonies at once in other places). So I assume you are saying "that's just part of the deal"---re-take the ones you can and gamble on the rest of them?
That's it. Amass colonists before the DoW, then burn TPs as long as you get colonists. War will rage at least two years IMO, so this means 11 more colonists, at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Loved the idea of getting the CB with Spain. However, since I already have a RM with Portugal, wouldn't it make more sense to DoW them? My relations with Spain is down to the 50 range. I'd have to up it some to get the RM in order to claim their throne (I never ever thought of that to try and get a CB--amazing strategy).
Both are good. I said Spain because you told about Portugal not joining, but the same works with a CB on Portugal. Just reverse options : put detachments in un-garrisoned spanish islands, some cavalry forces in their mexican provinces, and preposition cover and siege forces in iberian provinces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
As I looked around the board last night after England, what I was thinking was to attack the Mayas and Aztecs first, in order to get at Spain from multiple directions. You'd say ignore them but go on straight for Spain?
Just to avoid delay in taking out Spain (and possibly, help Aztecs and Maya taking a pair of provinces from Spain you'd get to conquer them for no BB when you take them out ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Oh, and back to the burning TPs---I can move a small army through, burn it and then move on and the province will instantly just become neutral again? Just making sure I understand the scorched earth strategy here and I don't "leave small armies everywhere...not getting me anywhere."
Once you control a TP, a button appears in the info screen when you select that province. At any time, you may choose to burn it, and it'll automatically revert to neutral territory. But your army won't be 'stuck' there (you don't even need an army in the province to burn it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Also, as I looked around, I was thinking that in dealing with Naples and Navarre, that my peace with them would be to force-vassel them with the eventual aim of taking them in diplo-annex. Wouldn't that make sense?
For Navarre, that was my first idea, but they're already vassals of Spain (like the Knights of Rhodes). Naples could be force-vassalized tough, but you'll probably have to face the spanish sicilian army (which is big).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
And I also was thinking that taking the islands in the Med would be good too. Don't forget that the Knights are also in their alliance (6 nations--yikes), so Malta becomes an easy target too.
Malta is rather poor (as well base tax and goods - fish-), and of maltese culture. You'll get 2 BB for it, but on the favorable points, it has a strategic position (you'd be able to cut the Med in two with some fleets, without having to resupply in ports). It's a decision to make, but Sicily/Palerme would be more interesting IMO (same advantage, but richer).
Balearics are not rich either. Canaries might be interesting as supply-point, like Azores, Cape Verde, and other islands (don't have the save under the eyes).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Finally, what really is the clear aim here (kind of deals with my questions in the previous 2 paragraphs)--am I dealing with colonies only or am I dealing with Continent only (certainly not) or some combination? Knowing for sure where I am going is the must here. Everyone keeps shouting about Toledo (it's been a possible victory points option for a while), but except for the last north west on the Atlantic Spanish province and the islands, I'm not sure I should take more Spanish land. But perhaps (like with England in the first colonial war with them), I should take NO continental Spanish land and only concentrate on the colonies.

The goal is first, to weaken Spain, second, to force-vassalize the minors you can (Bavaria, Naples, Spain ? ) , third to burn some TPs and replace them with colonies or yours (better long term interest), fourth to take some colonial lands that you can. If you want to take Toledo (gold) and Andalusia (CoT), take them, they're worth 4 BB total ; but probably that you won't be able to ask for both (not enough warscore, and if you do, you'll get much less colonies in the peace deals).

Additional thoughts :
- spanish colonies have no RR, so the tactic of letting them defect away probably won't work - sink the ships nonetheless, and keep a close look on those provinces in the future (again, it's opportunity questions)
- India : some provinces are free, and they're rich : colonize immediately after the war. And, what are these anglosaxons protestants doing under Mysore's hand (or Vijayanagar's) ? Did they revolt away from England ?
- Siberia : put TPs or colonies a the whole coast, to lock it away for you.

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #29
__________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Dire? Nasty? <gulp> And precisely what would those things be?
Relations hit with all which you have RM with. Bigger Stab-hit (-3 total). Try to get embargoed, it's simpler. If it doesn't work, claim their throne.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
About Navarre--you mean even if I take their lone province, I can't force-vassel them if they are already a vassel? I thought I had seen that happen many times out of peace deals.
No, that's not possible. You can force-annex them, but once they are somebody's vassal, they won't change their allegiance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
What is "RR" again?
Revolt Risk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
About Portugal, the RM ended last night and I did NOT renew. However, surprisingly, they asked me about it. So, perhaps you are right that if I DoW Spain, Portugal will not join. While my relations with Spain is +50ish, Portugal is sill over 130. does the computer have a memory? See, if that was a person, I'd think they would remember our glory days of old in the late 1400s and early 1500s and would remember that they are only out of our alliance due to the vassel event with Spain. I was surprised that the computer asked me. I've only had a very few things like that happen, such as England constantly asking me for a TA with them (which I keep on refusing).
In any case, vassalization has ceased. So, you may force-vassalize if you want to.
They have bad relations with Spain (+12), so better insult them copiously, bring your relations with them to negative, to ensure better chances of them honoring their alliance.
Computer has no memory, but looks at relations (ea).

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I doubt I could get embargoed from Spain--I've maintained a level 5 or, at times, monopoly in their CoT. I know I don't fully get the whole trade thing, so perhaps if I sent all 6 traders their way they'd get ticked off, but at least for now, they don't seem to care at all. Now Venice and Mecklenburg, haha, I send one guy their way and they embargo me.
Send continuous stream of merchants, and decrease your relations with them. I think that once you'll be making the void in the CoT or competing spanish merchants, you'll get embargoed.
__________________
robin74

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
I doubt I could get embargoed from Spain--I've maintained a level 5 or, at times, monopoly in their CoT.
I don't remember how it was in 1.07, but Spain is one of the easiest countries to get embargoed by. Make sure you don't have a trade agreement with them (it prevents embargoes). Or maybe they didn't reach trade level 4 yet and that's why they don't embargo you.
__________________
Wooster

Quote:
Originally Posted by robin74
I don't remember how it was in 1.07, but Spain is one of the easiest countries to get embargoed by. Make sure you don't have a trade agreement with them (it prevents embargoes). Or maybe they didn't reach trade level 4 yet and that's why they don't embargo you.

Seconded. It can get annoying when they have a colonial CoT and also diploannexed Venice...

I don't know if you guys have spelt out the ways to get embargoed, but for the benefit of carlec if you haven't, it's quite easy to do. Saving and then sending six merchants all at once ought to do it--pretty much the cheapest CB in the whole game I've been embargoed by Spain while sending only one merchant at a time.

 

[ProfCC]

CURRENT SETTING FROM CARLEC

Well, well, the fun certainly continues. . . I took on Spain and her allies in a big-time showdown. It was exciting, but rarely in doubt as I followed all of your advice as best I could leading to an interesting conclusion.

First, before I could get all my pieces into place, the Aztecs and Mayas bailed even though they both were in control of at least one province. Oh well. . . But I got all my people in their spot and went for it. I launched Conde at Naples, had another leader watch Bavaria, sent Turenne to watch Navarre, sent two other armies into Galacia (which I really wanted to take the Atlantic wall--I know it may not be rich, but it bugs me being yellow) and Castille. At the same time, I landed 3 armies in the Caribbean, marched into south Florida, the Rio Grande, San Bernadino and up into Central America from my newly acquired English colonies (great placement for me). I also launched a north and south attack on Portugal in South America, took the nearest African province to mine, giving me a river defense, and also took Sunda as directed. It was a flawless attack. By the time I had attacked my navy had dwarfed Spain and was way ahead in tech (both land and naval---showing yet again the great wisdom of the economic strategy of the 1400s that lawkeeper pushed me on---go back and read first 3 pages to see the points).

In the Americas, except for early naval battles, there were no issues. As you noted, by destroying their navy and not attacking their well defended islands, Spain was left with no way to ferry troops around. I did get one battle near the Rio Grande with a newly dropped off army, but my guys did me proud. I launched the attacks in May 1659 and by late 1660, it was mostly over in America. All I had to do was wait for the Iberian attacks to do their thing.

In Europe it went as expected except that Bavaria never came out. I decided to leave well enough alone and I just watched them. In Italy, Conde met the Naples army and routed them before successfully seiging both provinces. I had to wait a bit before final negotiations with Spain before Conde finished the job, but in the end, Naples became my vassels. Rock! Give me 30-50 years and Italy will finally be an extension of France just as Clovis and Pepin had dreamed of way back in the day.

Navarre attacked Aragon with most of her army and Turenne just followed her in. I moved a second army next to Aragon and waited. Towards the end, Navarre's army dropped from around 38 to 28 due to attrition I guess, so I launched my attack. By the end of the day, Turenne had taken Navarre and their army was routed. I gave them the white peace option.

Portugal should have stayed out of it; I would have, but no, they had to drop the RM and attack me anyway. But by mid-1660, I had taken most of her Brazillian provinces. I took the 4 places I wanted to extend my holdings appropriately (one in north Brazil plus burning 3 TPs there, one in south Brazil along with 3 TPs--they were all level 5 and I couldn't see burning them; the one African province to give me the river and Sunda for the CoT). She gladly went out knowing I could have taken more from her.

So, that left Spain (actually Naples was around all the way to the end as I mentioned). Once Navarre dropped out, it was just a matter of time. My navy ruled the Med, neither Naples nor the Knights came to her aid that way and I blocked up her main army of 40,000 in Sicily. By the time it was over, I had taken everything but the two provinces closest to Portugal.

But that left me with some interesting options that I present to you. I saved the game right before the peace in order to try different things. Yes I know that may not seem kosher to some, but I'm still a newbie here trying things out. When I was done, I had 3 different saves from which I'll play from here, but I wasn't really sure what exactly was best to do.

Here's what I did:
Option 1--force-vasselled Spain while taking her two West Coast holdings (city San Bernindino and colony Ensada [I had burned all her other TPs over there, north of the Aztecs and already turned 3 of them to me, so getting this land was important) and the Rio Grande. I tried to get a bit more, but with the 70 score for vassel, she wouldn't budge over 90. I also took her one spot in Indonesia, Palenbang (a TP) right across from Sunda. My final BB at the end was 46.4 out of 52 and obviously a diplo-annex is a possiblity in the future (I think).

Option 2--I took Iberian lands that you all seem to love--Toledo, Granada, Galacia as well as the West Coast lands. BB hits 50.4 out of 52

Option 3--I focused only on colonial lands getting the aforementioned west coast lands and Indonesia, adding Pecos and El Paso in Texas, all of Cuba and Jamacia. As you can imagine, this one left me as "Scum of the earth"--56.4 out of 52

So which one do I play on from here? I am going to guess option 1 since (and I am guessing here), I can diplo-annex Spain in some future date. As with Naples, I need to buy them up in relations as soon as possible and bring them into the alliance to protect them. But unless I'm missing something, it would seem this is a good deal. Of course, it also means that I walk away with a lot less land. I suppose keeping the lowest BB is good too. To reiterate, I am playing a normal game with an aggressive AI.

The colonies option is appealing to some degree; it leaves me much stronger obviously and with a weakened Spain, I can only assume that as the years roll on by, I can take more of her land if I wish. The Aztecs are now an open target for me and I can take all of the rest of the Southwest lands. Even if I never attempt to go after the rest of Spain's land in Central America and north South America, she'll never be strong enough to face me down.

I wasn't sure at all what to do in the Caribbean. Unfortunately for me, Spain had made cities of everything (expected and actually well done on her part---too bad she had not put fortifications everywhere as that would have certainly slowed me down). So even if I had 0 BB, there was no way to amass a score able to get me the lands. In the end I went for Cuba and Jamacia as something of a bridge to my other two Caribbean lands. I guess I could have traded Jamacia for Galacia (making me happy), but I was trying to only focus on colonies on this one. Of course all of this made me go over the top in the BB range--so far I've been close to the top, but always around 10 away. So, I'm not sure what all this does for me; I can't see anyone actually attacking me right now, but you never know.

I don't really see any value to the Iberian option, just more revolts. However it does give me the valuable Toledo that you all love and both the north Atlantic and Med coast.

Now, is there something I am missing in all of this? Wouldn't vassel status to a future annex be the plan? I mean, I know they could reject the annex option due to economy and such, but I don't see how they could ever pass me. I now am in control of 6 CoTs (France, Flanders, Holland, Genoa, Manhatten and Sunda). I dwarf them and the others in size, etc....

If I do go that way, I do want them in my alliance right? Or not? Currently I have Austria and Sienna (just to diplo-annex them in about 15 more years), so I have some options. I'm not sure what happens with Spain's alliance. Does it break up or does the next largest nation just become the leader? If it breaks up, that opens the door for Portugal or I guess even maybe Bavaria. Spain sucked Venice in at the last minute, but the next moment it was all over, so while they got in, they never bothered me. And since Navarre was in the alliance as Spain's vassel, they of course are no one's vassel now. I can kiss up and make them my vassel too I assume.

So many options to choose from. . . of course all of that is moot if you guys don't think the vassel thing is the way to go. Appreciate all of your words and insight, so chime on in. Once we pick a strategy, I'll put up a screen shot if you want.

 

[ProfCC]

QUESTION SERIES #30
__________________
Daniel A

Of course go with the force-vassalisation of Spain alternative carlec. Then build up your economy by taking out pagans and diploannex Spain 30 years later (or perhaps even earlier). Incidentally this is the preferred technique for World Conquest games and the build up of your game appears to be so solid that you might consider doing something that to my knowledge no one has done before in the history of the game. Reaching the ultimate goal, a WC, in his first game! (Although a flawed one because of reloads and the first class assistance ;, but still...).

When doing the forcevassalisation you take as many colonies/TPs in the peace settlement as you can, because they are BB free in peace settlements but not in annexations.

Keep BB LOW. Keep BB low. Keep BB low. Repeat 100 times!

Toledo is not that important. You can find gold elsewhere and Toledo costs BB. Next war mission for you is of course the Incas and the Aztekes, full of gold, in fact the two most valueable provinces in the whole game is in those two nations. Guess which? Toledo is nothing compared to them

But apparently you have forgotten the Pacific area and its vicinities! Have you been looking around? You do remember what I told you!
__________________
Wooster

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel A
Reaching the ultimate goal, a WC

*cough*Says you.*cough*

I don't think that a WC is such an ultimate goal. Obviously option 1 is still the one to run with, regardless of your projected endpoint, though.

I'd sooner vassalise as many countries as possible.
_________________
lawkeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
If I do go that way, I do want them in my alliance right? Or not? Currently I have Austria and Sienna (just to diplo-annex them in about 15 more years), so I have some options. I'm not sure what happens with Spain's alliance. Does it break up or does the next largest nation just become the leader? If it breaks up, that opens the door for Portugal or I guess even maybe Bavaria. Spain sucked Venice in at the last minute, but the next moment it was all over, so while they got in, they never bothered me. And since Navarre was in the alliance as Spain's vassel, they of course are no one's vassel now. I can kiss up and make them my vassel too I assume.
No, Navarre will remain spanish vassal as long as they exist (and if neither breaks away). But they'll be all alone (in the dark... errh blue ), without any vassal, as soon as they leave their current alliance.

For the iberian alliance, when the leader defects, it's the second most ancient member who takes the leader position (even if the former leader comes back ) ; in your case, the Knights. Order of the alliance members can be seen in the ledger, in Military Alliances.

Your three options are all valid, I'd say. It really depends on what you want : absorb Spain, only take colonies, or take the lands you want. BB wise, do as Daniel said : take as many TPs/colonies in the peace and force-vassalize them (and send gifts, huge gifts, to improve relations really quickly - as for Naples, BTW). The force-vassalization is the best way to get as much provinces as possible with minimal BB. But even that will lead you through the roof, and diplomacy will be a real pain thereafter : better open the purse. But the way would be open thereafter, to maybe launch a crusade against the OE, or to do anything else.
__________________
Nocuous

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
What exactly does "lead you through the roof" mean? Do you mean the BB costs will be too high under F-V? Or do you mean, when I diplo-annex the BB costs will be high? Or both? I thought that diplo-annex didn't cost any or much BB? And pagans none, right?
He probably meant BB-roof. When you get BB like 56.4/52 you are through the roof. If you play on VH you get the BB-wars, and on lower difficulty you get higher stab cost and all diplomatic actions are more likely to fail. other countries are also more likely to declare war if you are weak. (And diplo-annex also cost BB, as you later mention.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
Obviously, whether I go with the vassel scenario (46.4/52) or colonization (56.4/52) I'm high, too high. And thus, the next 50 years or so had better be quiet on my end. And that's fine by me. A "WC" might be possible in the 150+ years I have, but I'm really not all that interested and to be fair, I have had tons of help and I have done a few save/restarts (though nothing to be considered unfair in my book). And I've made my mistakes (like force-annexation of Brittany and getting the 6 BB hit that I didn't know about---obviously I could have restarted the save to that differently, but didn't). Anyway, I could have long ago struck into central Europe or even gone across the Med, getting into contact with the OE. I'm not all that interested in most of that, though France's long connection with north Africa is now about to be something I pursue.
Vassilising Spain is obviously the best option, and as to getting involved in North Africa it depends on your goals. Most of the provinces aren't that good, and unless you have a spesific goal that require you to take those provinces I would leave them alone. (Alexandria is an obvious exception. If you take it, Egypt and Nile you have a easy access to to red sea, and can move armies from Europe to India a lot faster. Those provinces are also quite rich.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
But back to now, Spain and the BB stuff---will I incur a BB hit if I diplo-annex Spain later? EDIT--I JUST LOOKED AT THE FAQ--I get a 1BB hit for each province they own! OUCH! BTW, I don't remember that hit while taking the Netherlands, but it probably happened and I wasn't really noticing.

Regardless, do I want to annex them or just keep them as vassel? I've noted that the AI seems to be content to just keep the vassel status thing. EDIT--SO IT WOULD SEEM LIKELY that I'd just keep them as a vassel then, right? But in that case, I'd NEVER get those lands over there. Uh, yeah, so I'm confused now as to what to do.

You are right that you get BB by diplo-annexing. If you just want to keep Spain as a vassal that is also valid strategy depending on you final goal. I would probably keep them as a vassal until the BB-level is low enough to annex them without going over the limit. If you were going for a VH WC you would probably use Spain as the final push that break the limit and start the BB-wars. What I usually do with Spain is to take them on often, so that they never get a chance to expand most of their colonies into col cities, so that I can get them in the peace process without incuring any BB. In your case it seems like most of the American provinces already are over that threshold, and it will cost to much BB to strip those colonies from Spain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
And strategy wise, you really NEED to get them into your alliance, right? In order to keep them from getting sucked into some war where, as a result of losing said war, they are force-vasseled by someone else. Right?
Getting them into your alliance is a good idea. They can't ally with anyone else, and since you take half their taxes, it is likely that they will be a bit weaker, and other nations might take advantage of that. The only advantage you gain by letting others beat up Spain is that they might take some of the poor provinces, so that you can gain the rest for a lower BB, but since you can never be certain what the result of a war will be it is probably best not to risk it. If you ever have a vassal that is also on some of your national provinces it can be a good idea to let them fend for themselves against their enemies. Any provinces they take you can get back for no BB, and if they force-annex you vassal it saves you quite a bit of BB and reputation. (As France I'm glad if England annexes Orleans...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlec
OH, and for the record, I sent about 25 merchants to Spain's CoT over a 2 year period, relations were around +40 and they NEVER slapped the embargo on me. Perhaps their trade level is not high enough, but I finally had to give up and take the stability hit (BB hit too?) and DoW them.

Did you check to see if you have a TA with Spain? I don't remember what year you are at, so it is also possibel that Spain hasn't reached Trade lvl 4 yet. If that is the case you might have used the same strategy against any of its allies with higher Trade lvl and a COT. If that failed, claiming the throne would have been your best bet. That DoW cost you 4 BB points, 3 more than a DoW with CB.