Greenland should have more colonizable locations

[AntarcticRanger]

"alternate landmasses mod" which could also include like Kerguelen plateau fully above water etc

I mapped out an idea for if a circle centered around Hawaii was a kilometer higher, making Oahu and Maui two sides of a Hawaiian mainland, depending on the size of the circle making some or all of the northwestern Hawaiian islands comparable in size to the main ones, and raising Cross Seamount in-between Hawaii and the rest of Polynesia. Also fun fact the extra kilometer of height would be enough for a pretty respectable pair of ice caps on Hawaii and one on Maui.

I have stopped because I do not yet know nearly enough about the Hawaiian people to do this justice.

 

[Sirbab]

I mapped out an idea for if a circle centered around Hawaii was a kilometer higher, making Oahu and Maui two sides of a Hawaiian mainland, depending on the size of the circle making some or all of the northwestern Hawaiian islands comparable in size to the main ones, and raising Cross Seamount in-between Hawaii and the rest of Polynesia. Also fun fact the extra kilometer of height would be enough for a pretty respectable pair of ice caps on Hawaii and one on Maui.

I have stopped because I do not yet know nearly enough about the Hawaiian people to do this justice.

What a fun idea! But I totally understand that frustration. No matter what you did, it could feel like you'd be disrespecting their history. I think if you gave a solid shot at understanding their history(ies?) no one would fault you.

 

[AntarcticRanger]

I did say "yet".

 

[JohnCro]

Yes, totally agree. I kind of forgot about the Ungava area, but looking at the map now, especially with the addition of locations in Baffin Island, a few extra locations like Ivujivik (near Cape Wolstenholme and Digges Islands, sites of a 17th century battle and a trading expedition) Puvirnituq (site of a mass death and open-air grave of local Inuit, implying early contact with Europeans), and Kangiqsujauq (close to the Dorset-era Qajartalik archeological site, which was later used as an Inuit quarry) would be a great addition and help the map feel more filled in.

Maybe something like this? I posted in North America tinto map

Note I also fixed location of Clyde River, I made a mistake and only noticed it now

 

[Venboven]

Maybe something like this? I posted in North America tinto map
View attachment 1303034

Note I also fixed location of Clyde River, I made a mistake and only noticed it now

Yeah, that looks really good. Much better than my version:

This is my (very crudely made) attempt at showing the Arctic regions that I think should be given proper locations in North America:

I used the trade good mapmode because it was the most comprehensive map of northern North America I could find in the TTs.
Red lines are meant to represent the uncolonizable passageways like are used in Siberia and northern British Columbia on this map.
I also had to draw in the Baffin Island locations, even though those are already in the game, as this map is from before those locations were implemented.

 

[MagnusStultus]

In this era Greenland underwent dramatic changes due to climate change that made a European lifestyle involving agriculture (the style of life the Norse residents of Greenland actually wanted) no longer possible.

Historically the residents found moving away from Greenland more desirable than remaining.

Changing lifestyles by the way is not in any way shape or form easy.

The player changing history should not be presented with a mighty start location and just need to click "switch to fishing and hunting" it should be a major achievement to persuade the population not to leave for Europe, and to someday get to the new world.

A good place to start is do you know about the pain westernizing gives in EU III/was meant to originally give in EU IV while actually being easy?

If Greenland gets more locations to colonize it should come with a side of major pains just to prevent itself from going into oblivion as happened historically, and the ai should always go into history.

Hunter/gatherer/fisher is not an easy lifestyle, and you can't just switch to it over night.

 

[Venboven]

In this era Greenland underwent dramatic changes due to climate change that made a European lifestyle involving agriculture (the style of life the Norse residents of Greenland actually wanted) no longer possible.

Historically the residents found moving away from Greenland more desirable than remaining.

Changing lifestyles by the way is not in any way shape or form easy.

The player changing history should not be presented with a mighty start location and just need to click "switch to fishing and hunting" it should be a major achievement to persuade the population not to leave for Europe, and to someday get to the new world.

A good place to start is do you know about the pain westernizing gives in EU III/was meant to originally give in EU IV while actually being easy?

If Greenland gets more locations to colonize it should come with a side of major pains just to prevent itself from going into oblivion as happened historically, and the ai should always go into history.

Hunter/gatherer/fisher is not an easy lifestyle, and you can't just switch to it over night.

100% agree. Norse Greenland was bound to fail if they did not adapt to a more Inuit-style lifestyle, and adaptation would have been a slow and difficult process, if possible at all. And the Danish-Norwegian colonization of Greenland in the 1700s was extremely difficult. In many places, the settlers starved or fled. Multiple outposts failed or had to be resettled. And even if they succeeded, many people died of scurvy and disease. The colonization effort required extensive funding from the Danish-Norwegian crown to remain afloat. I'm honestly not even sure if the endeavor was profitable in the end.

But the colonization of Greenland did happen historically, and so I think it should be represented in EU5 with these additional locations, albeit with as many modeled difficulties as possible as existed in the real colonization irl.

 

[JohnCro]

Yeah, that looks really good. Much better than my version:

This is my (very crudely made) attempt at showing the Arctic regions that I think should be given proper locations in North America:
View attachment 1303769
I used the trade good mapmode because it was the most comprehensive map of northern North America I could find in the TTs.
Red lines are meant to represent the uncolonizable passageways like are used in Siberia and northern British Columbia on this map.
I also had to draw in the Baffin Island locations, even though those are already in the game, as this map is from before those locations were implemented.

I love your suggestion and I find it very helpful as I was about to make Nunavut Hudson Bay coast locations but I did not known where or how to draw corridors to inland, this is really helpful as I will follow these. Thanks.

 

[Venboven]

I love your suggestion and I find it very helpful as I was about to make Nunavut Hudson Bay coast locations but I did not known where or how to draw corridors to inland, this is really helpful as I will follow these. Thanks.

Yeah ofc. Here's some place names for the locations on my map, if it helps:

Most of the names follow modern town names (with both the colonial and native names) with a few exceptions:
-Colville/Kuukpik: No historic towns, but the area did have migratory Iñupiat, so I named it after the major river flowing through here.
-Sagavanirktok: Lacked a native translation, so I named it after the river the town sits on.
-Barter Island: Not an official name of the town, but it's the most direct English translation of the area.
-Garry Lake: No historic towns, but the area was an important migratory area for Caribou Inuit, so I just named it after the prominent lake in the area.
-Eskimo Point/Tikirajualaaq: This is actually the (regionally) fairly large modern town of Arviat, but it was historically known as Tikirajualaaq to the natives, and the Hudson Bay Company just called it Eskimo Point.

For the uncolonizable passageways, I know I drew them as straight lines, but they should realistically curve and follow natural features and migratory paths. Here's a rough sketch of some more natural looking passageways:

Solid lines are replacement routes for the red lines. Dashed lines with question marks are potential routes that I'm unsure about. Dashed lines without question marks are routes that follow historic exploration paths and geographic features (mostly rivers).



And here's some references because I went down a rabbit hole don't know what else to do with this information:

Map of European Arctic expeditions

Link to a map of Inuit trails:

Atlas

paninuittrails.org

Link to a bunch of maps of caribou herd migration paths:

Resources

Caribou Resources Search our site for related topics using the search at the bottom of the page or browse the library of resources and tools sorted by category below. Current Management Plan 2023-2032 Beverly and Qamanirjuaq Caribou Management Plan 2023-2032 For more information on the...

arctic-caribou.com

Animated video of map of caribou herd migration paths:

Map of Inuit-owned land in Nunavut (basically highlighting the land that people actually live on and use for hunting)

After doing all that research, I honestly don't know if a Garry Lake location would make much sense anymore, and I kinda want to rethink all the passageways. I would really like to model the passageways on historic Inuit migration paths, which mostly follow the caribou herds in southern Nunavut, but I don't feel like I have enough data for this, and there really isn't a lot of data on this subject out there available.

 

[JohnCro]

Yeah ofc. Here's some place names for the locations on my map, if it helps:
View attachment 1303838
Most of the names follow modern town names (with both the colonial and native names) with a few exceptions:
-Colville/Kuukpik: No historic towns, but the area did have migratory Iñupiat, so I named it after the major river flowing through here.
-Sagavanirktok: Lacked a native translation, so I named it after the river the town sits on.
-Barter Island: Not an official name of the town, but it's the most direct English translation of the area.
-Garry Lake: No historic towns, but the area was an important migratory area for Caribou Inuit, so I just named it after the prominent lake in the area.
-Eskimo Point/Tikirajualaaq: This is actually the (regionally) fairly large modern town of Arviat, but it was historically known as Tikirajualaaq to the natives, and the Hudson Bay Company just called it Eskimo Point.

For the uncolonizable passageways, I know I drew them as straight lines, but they should realistically curve and follow natural features and migratory paths. Here's a rough sketch of some more natural looking passageways:
View attachment 1303882
Solid lines are replacement routes for the red lines. Dashed lines with question marks are potential routes that I'm unsure about. Dashed lines without question marks are routes that follow historic exploration paths and geographic features (mostly rivers).



And here's some references because I went down a rabbit hole don't know what else to do with this information:

Map of European Arctic expeditions
View attachment 1303885

Link to a map of Inuit trails:

Atlas

paninuittrails.org

Link to a bunch of maps of caribou herd migration paths:

Resources

Caribou Resources Search our site for related topics using the search at the bottom of the page or browse the library of resources and tools sorted by category below. Current Management Plan 2023-2032 Beverly and Qamanirjuaq Caribou Management Plan 2023-2032 For more information on the...

arctic-caribou.com

Animated video of map of caribou herd migration paths:

Map of Inuit-owned land in Nunavut (basically highlighting the land that people actually live on and use for hunting)
View attachment 1303901

After doing all that research, I honestly don't know if a Garry Lake location would make much sense anymore, and I kinda want to rethink all the passageways. I would really like to model the passageways on historic Inuit migration paths, which mostly follow the caribou herds in southern Nunavut, but I don't feel like I have enough data for this, and there really isn't a lot of data on this subject out there available.

This is really good! The research you did is quite helpful. I am just now drawing locations and I will add Cape Fullerton, currently abandoned location just above Chesterfield Inlet, just to fill in a coast a bit more.

 

[JohnCro]

Yeah ofc. Here's some place names for the locations on my map, if it helps:
View attachment 1303838
Most of the names follow modern town names (with both the colonial and native names) with a few exceptions:
-Colville/Kuukpik: No historic towns, but the area did have migratory Iñupiat, so I named it after the major river flowing through here.
-Sagavanirktok: Lacked a native translation, so I named it after the river the town sits on.
-Barter Island: Not an official name of the town, but it's the most direct English translation of the area.
-Garry Lake: No historic towns, but the area was an important migratory area for Caribou Inuit, so I just named it after the prominent lake in the area.
-Eskimo Point/Tikirajualaaq: This is actually the (regionally) fairly large modern town of Arviat, but it was historically known as Tikirajualaaq to the natives, and the Hudson Bay Company just called it Eskimo Point.

For the uncolonizable passageways, I know I drew them as straight lines, but they should realistically curve and follow natural features and migratory paths. Here's a rough sketch of some more natural looking passageways:
View attachment 1303882
Solid lines are replacement routes for the red lines. Dashed lines with question marks are potential routes that I'm unsure about. Dashed lines without question marks are routes that follow historic exploration paths and geographic features (mostly rivers).



And here's some references because I went down a rabbit hole don't know what else to do with this information:

Map of European Arctic expeditions
View attachment 1303885

Link to a map of Inuit trails:

Atlas

paninuittrails.org

Link to a bunch of maps of caribou herd migration paths:

Resources

Caribou Resources Search our site for related topics using the search at the bottom of the page or browse the library of resources and tools sorted by category below. Current Management Plan 2023-2032 Beverly and Qamanirjuaq Caribou Management Plan 2023-2032 For more information on the...

arctic-caribou.com

Animated video of map of caribou herd migration paths:

Map of Inuit-owned land in Nunavut (basically highlighting the land that people actually live on and use for hunting)
View attachment 1303901

After doing all that research, I honestly don't know if a Garry Lake location would make much sense anymore, and I kinda want to rethink all the passageways. I would really like to model the passageways on historic Inuit migration paths, which mostly follow the caribou herds in southern Nunavut, but I don't feel like I have enough data for this, and there really isn't a lot of data on this subject out there available.

Btw you should also post this in North America tinto maps!

 

[Venboven]

This is really good! The research you did is quite helpful. I am just now drawing locations and I will add Cape Fullerton, currently abandoned location just above Chesterfield Inlet, just to fill in a coast a bit more.

I figured I would share with you what is my final edit on the topic:

I dug through my sources and came up with this as my final conclusion. These routes should most properly represent the Inuit trails of the region.
-I removed the Garry Lake location because it was simply too remote, and after looking into it, it was part of a minor trail, not a major one.
-I added a new location in the north, just south of Gjoa Haven. This location, Chantrey Inlet (Tariunnuaq), was historically a more populated location than Garry Lake, and hosts more caribou too.
-The 3 north-south passageways, from left to right, follow the migratory paths of the Bathurst, Qamanirjuak, and Ahiak caribou herds respectively. The east-west passageways follow common Inuit trails/trade routes.

More depth could be added, but for the Arctic region of a game set from ~1300-1800, I think this is plenty good enough.

I look forward to seeing your map. My edits look like elementary ramblings, but yours will surely be fitting for EU5's style.

 

[JohnCro]

I figured I would share with you what is my final edit on the topic:
View attachment 1304082
I dug through my sources and came up with this as my final conclusion. These routes should most properly represent the Inuit trails of the region.
-I removed the Garry Lake location because it was simply too remote, and after looking into it, it was part of a minor trail, not a major one.
-I added a new location in the north, just south of Gjoa Haven. This location, Chantrey Inlet (Tariunnuaq), was historically a more populated location than Garry Lake, and hosts more caribou too.
-The 3 north-south passageways, from left to right, follow the migratory paths of the Bathurst, Qamanirjuak, and Ahiak caribou herds respectively. The east-west passageways follow common Inuit trails/trade routes.

More depth could be added, but for the Arctic region of a game set from ~1300-1800, I think this is plenty good enough.

I look forward to seeing your map. My edits look like elementary ramblings, but yours will surely be fitting for EU5's style.

This is great and you did a perfect job! I have just finished editing and I used your maps as a base

I just now edited your changes a moment ago regarding corridors
Also how it would look like in location map mode:

I tried to immitate the map mode the best I could

As you can see I also added some more previously inhabited locations like Wager Bay which was inhabited since 11th century until the second part of 20th century.
There are even stone foundations of seasonal houses used by natives. "About 500 archaeological sites have been identified in recent years as well from Dorset culture (500 BC - 1000 AD), as from Thule culture (1000 - 1800 AD) and the last two centuries." It was charted in 1747 by Christopher Middleton in his expedition there. 5 years later William Moore too. Then " In the 1860s, American explorer Charles Francis Hall's two-masted ship Monticello reached Roes Welcome Sound in 1864 while searching for John Franklin's lost Northwest Passage expedition of 1845 and had to overwinter at the mouth of Wager Bay."

I also added Ennadai and Padlei inland locations as they had been settlements too until 20th century.

 

[Venboven]

This is great and you did a perfect job! I have just finished editing and I used your maps as a base
View attachment 1304106
I just now edited your changes a moment ago regarding corridors
Also how it would look like in location map mode:
View attachment 1304107
I tried to immitate the map mode the best I could

As you can see I also added some more previously inhabited locations like Wager Bay which was inhabited since 11th century until the second part of 20th century.
There are even stone foundations of seasonal houses used by natives. "About 500 archaeological sites have been identified in recent years as well from Dorset culture (500 BC - 1000 AD), as from Thule culture (1000 - 1800 AD) and the last two centuries." It was charted in 1747 by Christopher Middleton in his expedition there. 5 years later William Moore too. Then " In the 1860s, American explorer Charles Francis Hall's two-masted ship Monticello reached Roes Welcome Sound in 1864 while searching for John Franklin's lost Northwest Passage expedition of 1845 and had to overwinter at the mouth of Wager Bay."

I also added Ennadai and Padlei inland locations as they had been settlements too until 20th century.

This looks awesome! Be sure to post it somewhere where more people can see it. Maybe try and collect all of your revisions, from Baffin Island, Quebec, Nunavut, and anywhere else into one big post.

 

[JohnCro]

This looks awesome! Be sure to post it somewhere where more people can see it. Maybe try and collect all of your revisions, from Baffin Island, Quebec, Nunavut, and anywhere else into one big post.

Thank you, I will post this in North America tinto maps and you should post your too, especially the research you done

 

[JohnCro]

This looks awesome! Be sure to post it somewhere where more people can see it. Maybe try and collect all of your revisions, from Baffin Island, Quebec, Nunavut, and anywhere else into one big post.

Btw definitely post Alaska suggestion too, I didn't edit those locations as I focused on Hudson Bay Nunavut