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Gripes with the game [Medium/Long Rant]

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Colonel
Jul 21, 2007
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After playing CK for a few games some areas have nullified my enjoyment of the game:

1) Do this or be excommunicated - I really am sick of these events. Alright, no doubt someone who has insulted god / had done something which is deemed to be blasphemous should no doubt be excommunicated by his holiness.

However, should my ruler be excommunicated *just* because he refuses to change his religious law to Church Supremacy? No, if you ask me. Should my King be excommunicated because he cant go on Crusade? Does the pope even realise the kind of financial cost his asking of me?

The situation isn't helped when the Pope previously came from one of the Bishoprics I had created, either.

2) We love you, now we hate you - Relationship with my vassals. It seems after every couple of years my realm is plunged into a civil war. Alright, so civil wars happened. Obviously. But once every every 10-15 years? There easily winnable, I agree. But there should be some real causes to them. If my realm is prospering and I've treated my vassals well then WHY BOTHER REBELLING? :mad:

I've even been on Crusade with my King and a few nobles when my vassals decide this is a good time to declare independence/declare war on me. Really now, if I'm going to be given these non-nonsensical excommunication events shouldn't the Pope instant excommunicate them all for being a bunch of pricks when Christendom is in need?

This almost always leads to number 3 which is what makes it a real pain.

3) We're broke. Don't tell me I'm the only one who hates these events. Sure, we're in the red due to fighting a war, being on crusade, whatever. But does that really mean my stone castles have fallen out of repair for the last 2-4 years? Really? I find that whenever I'm down to -2000 sovereigns the repossession guys take it upon themselves to stripe my provinces clean (or take a good chunk) of my buildings. If your going to do that, then atleast take the proceeds off my bill, please? Otherwise, I think these events fire far too often, and I'm left with a lot of rebuilding work which is then followed by another civil war or something else bad.

4) Blobby - I think we're all aware the AI likes to blob in Paradox Games, but this just seems to be emphasised with religious wars. As England I was just watching in despair as the Kingdom of Egypt blobbed all over Ireland, and then onto Scotland. All the more strange as Scotland put up a good fight against me in a previous game.

No doubt this is because the AI is immune to bankruptcy, and so doesn't have to put up with the huge financial costs of ferry its troops over the world.

Sorry for the rant. :eek:o Just had to get that off my chest. Guess I'll install the Improvement Pack and see if I fair any better.
 
Its too bad paradox isn't working on this game anymore. To me, I see it as the best game they've published.

Yes, the AI seems immune to bankruptcy, as they always top out at 0 gold, rather than getting into the -1000s.
 
:eek:Wow this is something I'd expect on the HoI3 forum, not gold old CK. You do bring up many valid points. I especially hate that the AI can't go bankrupt, there needs to be a penalty for the AI to constantly have its armies raised.
 
1) Yep, they are annoying, but the Pope did have significant power back in the day. I usually just do what he wants, as it is rarely anything I can't undo (except for the witchhunts on my non-christian advisors ... but those I can get around by not having a diocese bishop).

If you feel they are too harsh, you can try and edit some of them ut of the game.

2) I don't personally see that as a big issue ... there is usually a cause-and-effect to it. Maybe the realm is inherited by someone who doesn't like you for whatever reason, and that breeds discontent.

My main gripe on this point, is that small count vassals with no hope of survival would rather declare independence and get beaten up than wait for the right moment to strike. AI is still too suicidal sometimes, even on Coward agressiveness.

3) Since I rarely go into debt, I rarely see these events, but I am fairly sure that you do get the money back when you loose an improvement. At least that is the whole idea of it. Also relatively often you will get the 'Call Estates General' event when you can squeeze money out of your nation for the cost of Stability.

But if you wage wars you can't afford (like many regents did back then), your country will be in chaos afterwards.

4) Well unlike other PI games, there is an actual chance that the big green egyptian blob will not stay a blob forever in CK. If the wrong king ascends the throne it can come crashing down very, very quickly (just see Germany in the start of 1066).

While it is annoying to see Egypt move into the british isles or gaining footholds in Finland, that is a limitation in the engine that I can live with. If I dislike it, I can work on getting them out of there ... or just wait. Eventually those distant fiefdoms will rebel and usually get eaten up by neighbouring powers.

The AI that cannot go into debts is also a result of a bad AI. If the AI did not have this cheat, then by 1400, almost every province except yours would still have wooden forts and if lucky a Fishery or Forestry ... and all would most likely be filled with Smugglers', Thieves' and Robbers' buildings. This would mean you could conquer anything you wanted.

Later PI games have better engines and better AI, and I am sure this kind of thing will not be needed in CK2.

But until then, these are some of the things we just have to live with. For me, most are preventable or will even out if given time.
 
1) Well that is what happened to rulers in real life, who didn't listed to the Pope.

2) Managing your vassals loyalty is one of the most important and difficult parts of the game. If you play it right, you won't get that many civil wars as you have. Of course the bigger you are the more likelier the chance.

3) Being in debt is one of the few things that stops human players from conquering everything. And if you lose an improvement you get the money back that you invested in it.

4) I hardly see Muslims in the British Isles or Scandinavia anymore in DV. And like TempestDK said, those Muslims rules in far away places will break away and get conquered again by their Christian neighbours.

If you really don't like it, then turning of the Crusades is a good way to prevent this.

All in all I find the issues that you raise rather minor things and a lot of thise things can be prevented if you play it right.

f.e. if the Pope calls you to go on a Crusade or else he excommunicated you then take the offer to go on a Crusade (which won't get you excommunicated). But then you don't have to actually go Crusading, so it won't cost you gold at all.

Also use your vassals armies more, you don't pay for their upkeep so waging wars with them is much cheaper.
 
I know the feeling when some seemingly minor (illogical/ahistorical/recurring) detail of the game starts to disturb, capturing your attention until the irritating detail becomes a major turn-off making you leave the game. But in my opinion CK isn't that kind of game. Most of the annoying things can be avoided by certain proper action or can be accepted by rationalization (thinking in a particular way of ambivalences). And in CK it is relatively easy to alter those most disturbing areas by changing in event files either MTTH values or deleting/"commenting out" unwanted events.
 
1. Actually, kings were more often excommunicated for political and financial reasons than religious ones. And the latter tended to be lifted more easily. What I dislike are the somewhat arbitrary ones (I think my wife got me excommunicated once) and the somewhat unrealistic penalties it imposes.

2. I don't like the way rebellion is handled either. Realms utterly break down far too easy, and the AI seems constantly stuck in a state of civil war. It is annoying for the player as well when vassals suddenly (and suicidally decide to rebel). So much for having all these historical families and nobles in the game when they are going to be living in exile pretty soon.

3. As to the last ones, you might try cutting troop maintenance in half, or by another amount. I find this keeps AIs from gobbling eachother up so much, as they have money to settle for peace. This also makes non-territorial wars a bit more profitable and simulates a sort of tribute cycle. This will also keep you out of the red, if you've been having trouble with that.
 
Woad-Warrier said:
However, should my ruler be excommunicated *just* because he refuses to change his religious law to Church Supremacy? No, if you ask me. Should my King be excommunicated because he cant go on Crusade? Does the pope even realise the kind of financial cost his asking of me?
Click to expand...

I don't think this unrealistic.

The pope nearly did it with a hungarian king (Andreas II).


2) We love you, now we hate you - Relationship with my vassals. It seems after every couple of years my realm is plunged into a civil war. Alright, so civil wars happened. Obviously. But once every every 10-15 years? There easily winnable, I agree. But there should be some real causes to them. If my realm is prospering and I've treated my vassals well then WHY BOTHER REBELLING? :mad:
Click to expand...

If you are the just ruler of a prosperous realm they will only rebel if they dislike you personally.
(opposing traits)


I've even been on Crusade with my King and a few nobles when my vassals decide this is a good time to declare independence/declare war on me. Really now, if I'm going to be given these non-nonsensical excommunication events shouldn't the Pope instant excommunicate them all for being a bunch of pricks when Christendom is in need?
Click to expand...

This too is historical.
The king is away, the barons (and the queen) can finally do things their way.
(also happened in Hungary. With the crusader, with king in campaigns, or ruling his other kingdom for some time)



3) We're broke. Don't tell me I'm the only one who hates these events. Sure, we're in the red due to fighting a war, being on crusade, whatever. But does that really mean my stone castles have fallen out of repair for the last 2-4 years? Really?
Click to expand...

There were much worse then this.
Sigismund was forced to sell whole towns (a whole province in fact) to Poland to finance his european tour!

4) Blobby - I think we're all aware the AI likes to blob in Paradox Games, but this just seems to be emphasised with religious wars. As England I was just watching in despair as the Kingdom of Egypt blobbed all over Ireland, and then onto Scotland. All the more strange as Scotland put up a good fight against me in a previous game.
Click to expand...

Comment out crusades! That works with the emirs in northern europe thing!


edit: this last bit is in all of the games where the AI can conquer. Think of the Total war series for example, where it is even worse. Just after I defeat the Britons as Germania, I find that Dacia or Egypt is all over the place :D


edit: maybe it is just that you are not hungarian, so you are not used to broke (and financially inadept) kings and scheming local barons :D
 
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Woad-Warrier said:
After playing CK for a few games some areas have nullified my enjoyment of the game:

1) Do this or be excommunicated - I really am sick of these events. Alright, no doubt someone who has insulted god / had done something which is deemed to be blasphemous should no doubt be excommunicated by his holiness.

However, should my ruler be excommunicated *just* because he refuses to change his religious law to Church Supremacy? No, if you ask me. Should my King be excommunicated because he cant go on Crusade? Does the pope even realise the kind of financial cost his asking of me?

The situation isn't helped when the Pope previously came from one of the Bishoprics I had created, either.
Click to expand...

The way I see it, this event is Paradox's attempt to simulate the Investiture Conflict, where Pope and Emperor would dispute the question who had the right to appoint bishops for centuries, culminating in the excommunication of Henry IV.
 
DVIP has an event that prevents muslims from sailing across the Atlantic Ocean/North Sea so that should solve one of your problems (you can find it here seperately for use with vanilla, TASS or another mod)
 
Alright, so civil wars happened. Obviously. But once every every 10-15 years
Click to expand...

you must be doing something right, I can't manage a year without some getting a bit uppity and chancing their arm :cool:. Ok a succession of psychotic loonies for Kings may have contributed to my problem, but this seems pretty much ok to me. It was an era of weak states, personal rivalries, and opportunistic power grabs.
 
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