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unmerged(485)

Advocatus Sancti Sepulcri
Nov 24, 2000
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Has subdued us and sent us back to wallowing in the doldrums.

So why don't we discuss whether crossbow units or longbow units will be more effective in CK.

Will heavy cavalry rule the battlefields or will infantry prevail?

If your vassal shows up with only infantry will you send him back home until he can raise a proper force?

:)
 
*Jumps up and down trying to get some attention behind the gigantic frame of his fellow Norwegian mod*

Hey! Hey, I've got an iron fist too! Really! Please believe me!
 
Yes, and who might you be, Mr. euh... Demetrios???:p

Please return to your basket at once...:D

Right, now that's done might I add that the Flemish peasants defeated the French knights near Kortrijk in 1302, being the first to do so...:)
 
Originally posted by Murmurandus
Yes, and who might you be, Mr. euh... Demetrios???:p

Please return to your basket at once...:D

Right, now that's done might I add that the Flemish peasants defeated the French knights near Kortrijk in 1302, being the first to do so...:)

Oh, I just saw that on the History Channel show "Conquest" where they were talking about "weird medeival" weapons...
In all a very enlightening show...(I didn't know what a "holy water sprinkler" or a "crow's beak" actually looked like :))
 
Originally posted by Sonny
So why don't we discuss whether crossbow units or longbow units will be more effective in CK.

Will heavy cavalry rule the battlefields or will infantry prevail?

If your vassal shows up with only infantry will you send him back home until he can raise a proper force?

:)

-Crossbows: more powerful, higher armor penetration; longer reload time, slower moving, and just placing them in striking distance usually puts them at risk from cavalry or light infantry.

-Longbows: much greater range, quicker to reload, move faster. More versatile and in massed formations more deadly. Since theyre lighter-equipped than crossbowmen, they can also fight as light infantry if necessary (?)

-Heavy Cavalry pretty much rules until certain troop types appear to counter them like Brabantine, Lombard, & Flemish pikemen. Even these have to be used properly and in the right terrain to do the job. I guess there were earlier types capable of opposing heavy cavalry, like the English huscarls, Varangian Guard, etc. Longbows & crossbows can wither them from a distance but are dead meat unless protected by other infantry.

-In Germany, some of the Lotharingian princes contributed Brabantine pikemen in large numbers and they were a welcome addition to the imperial army, but they also sent knights. Swabian swordsmen were highly respected. German & Italian cities sent militia-type infantry, and Saxon spearmen turned out when necessary as against Henry IV. "Elite" Hungarian archers were sometimes sent to join imperial campaigns in Italy. The Welsh princes sent archers and spearmen when summoned by Henry II (1159, 1174, etc.). So I guess it depends which vassal shows up lacking. ;)

All this is only my uneducated opinion. :D Please correct where necessary.
 
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Originally posted by Demetrios
*Jumps up and down trying to get some attention behind the gigantic frame of his fellow Norwegian mod*

Hey! Hey, I've got an iron fist too! Really! Please believe me!


Well, you might have been considered if instead of jumping up and down you would have waived your Iron Fist in the air to get noticed.:p :)

O.K. - Demetrios also has an Iron Fist (although I've heard it described more like a tin claw).:D :rolleyes: :)
 
Originally posted by Murmurandus
Right, now that's done might I add that the Flemish peasants defeated the French knights near Kortrijk in 1302, being the first to do so...:)

followed by a jolly good round of slaughtering fleeing knights, looting French villages and raping sheep:D .
Only lasted 2 years before another French army showed up and defeated the Flemish.
 
*Drakken doesn't have to say aloud that he has an Iron fist* :cool:
 
Re: Re: Havard's Iron Fist

Originally posted by BarbarossaHRE
-Crossbows: more powerful, higher armor penetration; longer reload time, slower moving, and just placing them in striking distance usually puts them at risk from cavalry or light infantry.

-Longbows: much greater range, quicker to reload, move faster. More versatile and in massed formations more deadly. Since theyre lighter-equipped than crossbowmen, they can also fight as light infantry if necessary (?)

Although later crossbows had about equal range with longbows.

The funny part is that crossbows are generally seen as an effective anti-knight cavalry weapon while longbows were effective against the infantry. In actual combat it was the other way around.
 
Originally posted by Carolus Rex
Hey, be nice to Demetrios! *waves his fist too!*

Why?:confused: Er.. I mean of course - I'm nice to everyone - everyone who does not have feathers that is.:D
 
Re: Re: Havard's Iron Fist

Originally posted by BarbarossaHRE
-Crossbows: more powerful, higher armor penetration; longer reload time, slower moving, and just placing them in striking distance usually puts them at risk from cavalry or light infantry.
Most importantly doesn't need much training to use, so the total cost of crossbow units is lower than that of longbow units

Originally posted by BarbarossaHRE
-Longbows: much greater range, quicker to reload, move faster. More versatile and in massed formations more deadly. Since theyre lighter-equipped than crossbowmen, they can also fight as light infantry if necessary (?)
Needs lots of training to use, which meant that you had to excuse peasants from work to give them time to train.
 
Re: Re: Re: Havard's Iron Fist

Originally posted by Aetius
Needs lots of training to use, which meant that you had to excuse peasants from work to give them time to train.

Got it. Ok, you, you, and you, take the day off. Work on those V-fingers and let's give the French something to pout about. I'll get some other scum to cover your shift. :)
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Havard's Iron Fist

Originally posted by BarbarossaHRE
Got it. Ok, you, you, and you, take the day off. Work on those V-fingers and let's give the French something to pout about. I'll get some other scum to cover your shift. :)
:) More like the entire upper body, apperently very heavy work to draw a bow.
But essentially a longbow archer is far more difficult to replace, it took years to train them. You can get anyone to use a crossbow. So a crossbow archer is potentially a better soldier, since a normal soldier could be given a crossbow.