Haven't played for months - how to Sealion the UK now?

[AlipheeseXV]

Okay, so I haven't played in month. Somewhere before Götterdämmerung came around. It was due to my old computer.
Now with a brand new computer and the Götterdämmerung DLC, I dived back in: While some things were unfamiliar and only known from youtube videos, overall it worked out like before when playing Germany
- Civil war, start blasting, get rid of the mustach man
- at 300.000 troops in the field, Netherlands let the Kaiser return
- now I get austria easier annexed and as cores
- prepare collabs, prepare air, prepair med tanks.
- declare on Allies around mid 40
- Belgium is easily overrun, from their France falls when I reach Paris
nothing out of the ordinary.

So I then waited for some focuses to go through, like repossess Alsace-Loraine for my planned french collab government not have my core.
So far no big differences to before Götterdämmerung.

But then trying to sealion...
I always did it with paratroopers - no chance now!?
I'm aware about some AI changes and seen a few youtube vids. But still, experiencing it myself feels like a completely different game!?
Couldn't paradrop anywhere in southern england around october 1940.

So, my question is:
Is there a new strategy about it?
I've noticed the UK really shipping out their troops - around Brest where 10 divs from them. Before I could arrive for 'mopping them up', 8 already had left...
Where would one paradrop now, if even?
Should I instead heavily invest into naval bombers, flood the channel with them, even do port strikes, until I can naval invade?


Would appreciate some suggestions/pointers on how to do it nowadays so I don't have to naval invade north america!

 

[Evethor]

Build navy, it might delay you one year.
But you should do fine with cheap DDs and a few good CAs (DD means destroyer and CA means heavy crusier)

If you dont want to do that I suppose you could go for Scotland and paradrop every tile there so you can rush your army in.
Or even go for Ireland.

 

[AlipheeseXV]

Build navy, it might delay you one year.
But you should do fine with cheap DDs and a few good CAs (DD means destroyer and CA means heavy crusier)

If you dont want to do that I suppose you could go for Scotland and paradrop every tile there so you can rush your army in.
Or even go for Ireland.

Okay, so for a naval invasion nowadays, I need to rush down France by winter 39/40, continue building up my fleet until winter 40/41 and constantly for a year naval/port strike the british fleet. Which will give me roughly 5 months to cap the UK before Japan attacks the US.

How would I reach Scotland/Ireland with paratroopers when going the Empire route? I didn't see a focus to attack Norway, but that could just be me getting used to the new focus tree.

 

[Evethor]

Range focused MIO should give you the range you need from France / Low-Countries

 

[Evethor]

Having around 25 / 30 dockyards should be plenty for getting enough naval supremacy to Sealion.
Without portstrike even, but watch your fleet and only fight in the channel under green / yellow air.

 

[AlipheeseXV]

So I guess 'bloating my fleet' it is then, as I don't have the MIO related DLC.

Is it worth building something bigger then a CA, like a handful BC's?
Or concentrating on something like a 'budget meta fleet' with lots of torpedoes and light attack?

 

[Evethor]

So I guess 'bloating my fleet' it is then, as I don't have the MIO related DLC.

Is it worth building something bigger then a CA, like a handful BC's?
Or concentrating on something like a 'budget meta fleet' with lots of torpedoes and light attack?

Well if I dont go for a propper navy I just pop out a few CA`s with and couple of Heavy batteries and refit the empty slots with Secondaries when I get them.
And I dont do roach destroyers, I just fill the bottom row, usually with sonar in the radar spot and one ASW module in one of the top slots, cheap enough and useful enough for what I need.

 

[Evethor]

This guy on youtube does a pretty good job with navies.

 

[AlipheeseXV]

Okay and thanks.
I've also seen Curt's naval videos.

Will try it later with a new run.

 

[AlipheeseXV]

Okay, reporting in how it went...

Strange! Weird!
Despite me explicitely giving game rules to all the majors following their historical route, the brits had their brownshirt civil war...
What a mess...
Obviously I won!
But couldn't really test anything - or at least not much.
Was bombing the UK fleet in the channel and it looked good, when their civil war finally fired.
The peace deal afterwards was also weird: Mosley and his british empire weren't even in the peace deal! That is just broken...

Anyways, I've decided to keep it running to test the newer features.
Sidegoal is to own ALL of Africa as german empire, so will now begin to mop up Italy, Portugal and Spain for their colonies.
And Liberia.

Main goal is to build my own fleet (don't have the 'steal the enemy fleet in peace deal' dlc) and either challenge what Mosley has left... or Japan or even the US.
Will see what happens.

 

[Bigvanvader]

The south has max level AA, there isn't any in the north east, your paras will take a lot of damage dropping around Dover so might be better to head further north, but you should still be able to land assuming they aren't the default template

 

[Evethor]

Okay, reporting in how it went...

Strange! Weird!
Despite me explicitely giving game rules to all the majors following their historical route, the brits had their brownshirt civil war...
What a mess...
Obviously I won!
But couldn't really test anything - or at least not much.
Was bombing the UK fleet in the channel and it looked good, when their civil war finally fired.
The peace deal afterwards was also weird: Mosley and his british empire weren't even in the peace deal! That is just broken...

Anyways, I've decided to keep it running to test the newer features.
Sidegoal is to own ALL of Africa as german empire, so will now begin to mop up Italy, Portugal and Spain for their colonies.
And Liberia.

Main goal is to build my own fleet (don't have the 'steal the enemy fleet in peace deal' dlc) and either challenge what Mosley has left... or Japan or even the US.
Will see what happens.

When you go ahistorical the AI is allowed to do the same

 

[Kanitatlan]

Not directly relevant advice but I've got into the habit of seriously delaying invading the UK for the simple reason of maintaining the intensity of the war. Admittedly it is a long, long time since I played as Germany but once the USA has joined the allies my biggest issue is depleting US forces whilst I sort out crossing the Atlantic and a combination of air superiority, naval bombing and submarine warfare can mean that keeping the UK in the war is better than getting rid of them. This usually ends up with me invading with substantial forces with all sorts of combinations working fine simply because of the scale of the operation/

The counter to this is the huge benefit of defeating the Allies before the USA joins which really means the proper question is how to defeat the UK in 1940. That is much more of a challenge than it used to be a now requires better overall play. The problem is that invading the UK is now harder to achieve than all the preceding operations which means it is the new point at which players generally fail to have played with sufficient skill whereas previously it could be no harder than previous steps in the war.

 

[Ossiv]

I do Sea Lion in the Southern coast as hostorically planned. First I take air superiority over the Channel. I build radars in France. When superiority over the channel is achieved, I take air superiority also over Southern England. My submarines raid convoys in the Atlantic.

At the time of air battles, I mine the Channel, that gives some points for naval superiority. I prepare 3 simultaneous invasions with infantry. I also prepare paratrooper drops. When they are nearly ready to launch, only then I commit my surface navy, to get naval superiority in the Channel. I send the infantry with surface fleet ordered to invasion support.

When I have got first harbor, I send armor over the Channel. The British fight much better than they did before against infantry and paras, but with armor I push them to Scotland. Then the UK surrenders. For me tge winner of land warfare is armor under green air. Therefore I value fighters more than CAS.

 

[Caeric]

This guy on youtube does a pretty good job with navies.

Whilst Curt is highly entertaining with his naval challenges, he also is a teensy bit ignorant on some things. For example when he compared the Panzerschiff with the 1936 cruiser he didn't bother to look at and compare the production cost. An empty panzerschiff costs 3500 production, that is 100 more than the 3400 production a 1944 battleship hull costs whilst a regular 1936 cruiser hull costs just 1900 production. It also costs 4 steel per dockyard rather than 2. So don't take everything he says and does at face value.

 

[leastfire]

in single player I do super heavy battleships for naval supremacy, and amphibious armored divisions for invasion, it works in max buffed unmodded AIs, would be harder if using AI mod. I have never used paratroopers so no idea how, but there are other options that work in newest dlc

 

[AlipheeseXV]

When you go ahistorical the AI is allowed to do the same

Even when I enforce 'historical' under game rules?
I mean those historical game rules are also achievement compatible, so the AI still going another route is a bit frustrating...
Cause whats the point of the game rules if the AI still does otherwise?


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For the rest of the thread:
I ditched my first game and started another one.
The UK at one point went communist and decolonized... oh well, at least no civil war so they kept their fleet and I could 'simulate a sealion'.
Step by step adding to my own fleet while getting green air in the english channel and naval bombing every allied ship in the channel at some point gave my invasion a go. Poper Marines were able to secure one of the 3 targeted ports and bringing over my proper tank divisions helped breaking out of that port (it was Dover btw).
The AI now defends far more fiercly, but proper tank divisions in combination with green air, CAS and those combat instructions still work their magic.

Conclusion:
For now I believe naval invading with marines is the better way then using paratroopers.
Maybe I will try it again to drop further north, but the marines went far too smoothly. Even with loosing some of them, properly going for dominance in the english channel with ships and aircrafts also has the benefit that when bringing over my main troops, they don't get caught on their way in by the british fleet.

Only thing I don't know if it helped or not was letting my tac bombers do port strikes in southern england. I managed to damage ships there, but unsure if that also helped for naval supremecy or not.

 

[JakeSpeed]

I guess it's time for my 2 cents (accurately valued) of an idea...

• Build a navy worth ~7500+ of sea supremacy. (I don't care how you achieve it)
• Get air supremacy over the English Channel using Fighters and Naval Bombers
  • Build Radar stations that cover all of the English Channel. (Research Radar level 2 min but 4 preferred)
• Execute 2 separate naval landing across the channel. (Research T2 naval landing tech enabling 30 divisions)
  • 5x of 4divisions hitting Portsmouth and Dover from Dunkirk and Cherbourg
  • 2x 3 and 1x 4 divisions hitting Ipswich from Rotterdam

I loaded a game that already did it. Screen shot shows...

• 3x level 2 Radar from Continental Europe and their coverage diameters
• Naval Invasion Orders with the FROM and TO sources
• 

With improved AI, I now do 2 naval invasions instead of 1. The AI is better at repelling a single invasion. One will always complete before the other (usually the Ipswich invasion) giving me access to a port and thus supplies. I then assign all 24 divisions to the same frontline and activate and offensive line order to the central west coast. I micro as needed to...

• leverage a small number of divisions from the 1st invasion to merge with the 2nd army's naval invasion group
• leverage all successful divisions that have landed to pressure the states where the invasion is facing resistance that is pinning the landing

Once all landings are successful and both front lines have connected, I delete both frontlines and create a Field Marshall order for the rest of the invasion.

Note(s)

• For me having air superiority is crucial. It is not uncommon for the UK to put up 1500-2000 fighters on their home island. Plan for that with more fighters, more production of fighters, and preferably 1940 spec'd fighters coming off the line. Never resting control of the skies will lead to you losing

I hope this helps and Good Luck and Have Fun

ps...my Fascist play through with WWII ended in April 1940

 

[JakeSpeed]

In case you want to simply practice naval invasions I am attaching a save game where the invasion has been triggered and all you have to do it ride it into the landing and micro as needed

 

[Corvinas]

Now bot keeps more divisions on his homeisland. So it's way harder to capitulate him. I also was very suprised on my first try.
First of all you need to bomb out all his submarines so no one will interrupt your supply lines. Then you drop and try to take as much land as you can, preferably with "hard" terrain, so in case you took it bot couldn't move you from this tiles. Then you have to deal with aviation, because under red air it's impossible to fight. Capturing airfields also work. Then you send your armor to England and make a breakthrought and encircle as many enemy divisions as you can. I usually divide UK in two parts, firstly destroy first part, then the second. For example, I drop somewhere in Newcastle and divide the island into Scotland and Southern UK.