Exactly.
Abstraction is good, but this current abstraction is just plain ridiculous, its just mind boggling.
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Abstraction is good, but this current abstraction is just plain ridiculous, its just mind boggling.
agreed. Not sure I side with those who want a return to HoI3 complexity or even those who want to model literally every type of supply including food, abstraction of supplies is fine but to ignore fuel is just crazy. There are no real penalties anymore for failing to plan ahead and secure oil prior to an offensive either through conquest or diplomacy/trade. Hearts of Iron is still a grand strategy series right?
Paradox? I must admit you honestly have me really worried now.- 3
This is actually not true from what we've been told. Without oil the production of "equipment" to resupply (reinforce) your units will suffer.
Just to be clear I'm not trying to debate whether the abstraction is ridiculous/crazy or not, only to point out that's the design Paradox promised.
I'm aware of the design. The problem with the current design though is it doesn't take into account some units consume more oil than others. You might have one unit which has high fuel requirements but low equipment maintenance costs or some units with low fuel requirements but high equipment requirements. By lumping fuel into generic supply it retards the whole game on a massive scale. My opinion but we'll see at release if I'm right.
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It almost definitely results in something completely different though. For one, attrition of equipment will depend on technology and superiority meaning less oil consumed for large, high-tech nations. Equipment will also be stockpiled, meaning that there's circumstances where reduced tank production (no oil input) will simply not be a concern for a conflict.
Then there's the fact that fuel shortage is now represented by a tank shortage, meaning that your divisions will run dry of tanks if fuel is not available. So when your infantry finally conquer those oil fields, you will first have to produce all those tanks instead of just getting the fuel to the front.
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Yes it can. The only thing that might balance the "no oil needed to move things" is the attrition and combat casualties, which must be unrealistically high (especially the attrition part) to give you the real neccesity of having to make tanks non stop to make your losses good.
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So then lets close all dev threads and not discuss anything until it actually comes out.
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The point is that trying to invalidate argument by saying, as he did, that he'd been playing for a long time is irrelevant because it is a completely different game. That I haven't played the game either is irrelevant, because I'm not making ludicrous claims of experience.
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Well... your point is just ridiculous... its all over again the discussion about system theory, just please, google:
System Theory
and realize how amazingly dumb making a point like:
"To have an opinion on something you have to experience it"
is.
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My point was I find funny that some people (maybe not you) talk down critics of some HOI4 features (supply system between others) saying they didn't play the game yet, but at the same time tell how much they like the game, a game they didn't play yet...
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You can decide if you like or dislike a feature by watching vids and pictures. My problem is with the people who say over the top things like "this is shit I won't buy it" or "this ruins the whole game". Yeah, the solution to that is don't buy the game, and not to complain about it on forums. We vote with our wallets after all.
Also I think we should give a try to the system before we judge it.
Is the new system unrealistic? Yes. Do I want fuel? Yes I do. Is the new system dumb and bad? I don't know, I'll try and see.
I don't try to enforce my personal preference on the game. I will buy the game and if I hate it(doubt it tbh) I will get a refund on Steam.
In the end, the game is in beta already, the supply system won't change, so we better get used to it.
I do hope that later we get a patch about an improved supply system. (something like the pre DLC patches.)
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Stop telling people that their point is ridiculous when you don't agree with them. It's rude, be a bit more mature about things like this.
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That you don't like a point doesn't make it stupid, nor does your inability to refute it. Rather than try to come up with a valid argument however you have just trotted out a pathetic straw man, so well done, run along and find a new window to lick.
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Actually she's claiming that a completely fabricated position in ridiculous because she can't come up with an argument against the actual position.
Its not a matter of agreeing or not, its a matter of facts, and people who make arguments that are completely opposed to our collective human knowledge must be pointed out. I had this argument with you before and clearly it was a debate where you had absolutely no arguments, while I have the whole human collect knowledge acquired over thousands of years to back me up.
Its irrelevant what I like or not.
And yeah I just refuted it with basic knowledge, but I'm not your parent nor your teacher so I'm not going to explain to you how the world works, instead I provided you with a way to research for yourself so that you understand that your point holds no value whatsoever in this case.
Your ignorance isn't an argument, so stop using it like if it is.
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But you don't understand ! THE COLLECTIVE HUMAN KNOWLEDGE IS ON HER SIDE!!! /s
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