Help a noob French Empire

[unmerged(50786)]

I didn't realise that playing one of the world powers on "Easy" settings would be that difficult. Easy is supposed to mean that I could beat this game playing with my eyes closed? Like hell! Probably France in GC is plagued with difficulties like the real French empire or I am just not getting the game, but I am having a lot of trouble clinging to the 2nd - 4th places in the country rank. Here's a summary of what I've done. It would be great if you could point out the mistakes and help me improve.


Game: Victoria Revolutions, GC, France, Easy, Low aggressiveness.

At first it was hard to grow the number of industries, but France was well ahead of the rest of the world on its second place. I went with "machine parts" and "State capitalism" party switch to help me industrialise. Almost immediately I declared war on Algeria and annexed it. No problem. Later according to the guide I declared war on Morocco and took their territory. At the same time Vietnam declared war on me through event and I had to take them together with Cambodia. Conquests were over by 1845. I guess I took a pretty bad BB hit as my alliance offerings to Sardinia (150+ relations) were all turned down. Spain, Greece and USA keep trying to be nice to me though. Around the same time I went on a second industrialization run with the same tactics (mid 1840’s). The Liberal revolution went as planned, massive revolts quickly subjugated by my troops guarding mainland and colonies. After that I went for a third industrialization run, finally getting myself a machine parts factory. Revolts from the Liberal revolution and government switching are continuing into the time of the Crimean War which I choose to sit out.


Here’s an overview of France as of March 1854. I really need some analysis on what I am doing wrongly.

Overall
Prestige: Second (275) after UK(650), closely followed by blasted Prussia (235) and USA (210). The rest are no match.
Military ranking: sank to the 4th place from the 3rd after UK, Russia and USA. No big changes to french military, no problem there either.
Industry: Trying to hold on to 2nd place (667) after UK (1200), Prussia (650) being very close on the third, followed by USA (580). Russia and Austria are well below (200-300).

Industrial Power
My biggest concern is the slow rate of growth of education (set at 100% and I am still at an equal pace with everyone else), population (Austria-Hungary, my benchmark, grows faster than me) and industries. In the beginning France was well away on their second place. Now USA, Prussia and even Russia are getting close and there’s no way I can keep up without screwing my country politically (I am still Orleaniste with Laissez-faire economic policy). UK is at 38 factories, followed by USA at 27, my France is 3rd with 23, then Prussia with 21, Russia with 19. Spain and Austria have 14 and 12 respectively. France is falling behind with every passing year in that race.

France used to lead in production of 5 goods and now it is down to 3 (Lumber, Wine and Paper). Glass and Artillery production have gone to USA and UK. The Exports are: 1090 for UK, 560 for USA, China 530 (a big country, so I am not worried), Prussia 310, France at 270 and Russia at 190. As you can see Prussia is at least more efficient than France with a smaller, but more skilled population. Over twenty five years France has built a few profitable industries. Overall France has 3 steel factories (1 of lvl 3, same calculations follow), 4 wine factories (leader!), 6 lumber (leader!), 4 fabric, 3 glass, 2 paper. 1 lvl factories are not counted. Almost no railroads build due to the lack of funds at the same time as the government was favourable towards construction (factories ate all resources).

Government and the people
Population and Budget policies have been according to Vicky Wiki. At the moment taxes are around 21% for the two lower classes (to keep them from revolting) and 0% for the rich class. Education, Crime and Social spending (0$) is at maximum, Defence and Navy at minimum. Tariffs are set to balance the ledger slightly above zero. Technology school is Traditional Academic with most advances (14) made in industry. Population has been divided so that there are no POPs higher than 40-50k. Many Craftsmen (factories filled to capacity), fewer clerks (no resources to promote them). Capitalist number has been untouched and some have accumulated 750+ $ in their funds, but failed to construct anything as yet.


Here we are in March 1854 and France needs some serious reforms to be able to compete. I have a few questions about game mechanics, but I mostly need analysis and development advice.

- Can I “re-home” divisions once they have been established?
- Can I check what factories do my rivals have?
- How can I know if assimilation is taking place?
- How can I encourage migration of my main French culture POPs to colonies?
- I am starting to hate UK’s guts for always being on top of that score chain is that normal in Vicky?
- What are possible ways to speed up industrialisation at this stage without causing a revolution?

 

[RELee]

You specifically ask for my advice? What a dangerous commodity! Ok. Hang on to your hat, son!

First thing to remember. This is not a sprint. It's a long-distance race. You have 100 years of game play to negotiate with. Don't try to do it all at once.

Second thing to remember, in my opinion. Someone else may disagree with me on this one, but just ignore the score. Chances are that you will not wind up #1 at game's end. The important thing is reaching your pre-set goals for this game and this country. Your pre-set goal for this game is not to fail ignominiously! You are in "learning mode". Even after years of play, I still feel like I'm in "learning mode", but then I'm used to failing on a regular basis.

I would recommend learning how the economy and politics work and interact first. For the sake of fun, I'll admit that whacking the uncivs with your modern army is well worth it. Just don't let the Franco-Prussian War catch you by surprise. If you are not familiar in how to handle your divisions in a major war with another Great Power, you may find yourself wondering what happened to your gaming skills when the Prussians fall upon you. Trust me, there is no shame in that. Of course, you may be a genius with PI warfare. It took me a while to get the hang of it, though. The really important facet of Vicky warfare to understand, without a solid economy and stable political situation at home, you will not win major wars.

Now, to your questions:

- Can I “re-home” divisions once they have been established?

Don't understand.o

- Can I check what factories do my rivals have?

I'm not sure. I never worry about it. My concerns are more along the lines of keeping my pops happy, my manpower and leadership points high, my capitalists building and keeping my eye on alliances. Don't want to get caught accepting an invitation to war only to discover I'm fighting a half-dozen enemies at once.

- How can I know if assimilation is taking place?

I don't worry about this one either. I do keep an eye on the immigration page of the ledger from time to time.

- How can I encourage migration of my main French culture POPs to colonies?

Uh-oh! Careful with this concept. It's a double-edged sword. To encourage migration, you have to make you pops unhappy and broke, which is also the means to encourage emigration. You are just as likely to send them packing to the US as to your colonies. You best be watching the immigration page in the ledger a lot. It is very, very important to remember that the US is an immigrant magnet, even nerfed as it is in Revolutions. Don't close factories or RGOs thinking that the lack of jobs will drive your pops to move. It will do the opposite. The pops see open slots (open jobs) instead of a closed RGO or factory. Instead, download the pop-splitter utility and keep your pops split every few years and let the RGO slots fill up. Once pops don't have work, they will move, so avoid the unemployment social reform as long as possible if you're looking to get pops to move. Just remember, you can only encourage your pops to move. You can't dictate where they will move.

- I am starting to hate UK’s guts for always being on top of that score chain is that normal in Vicky?

Yes.

- What are possible ways to speed up industrialisation at this stage without causing a revolution?

Slow and steady wins this race, my friend. Your first priority is improving your infrastructure - i.e. building railroads. Improving your infrastructure makes both RGO's and factories more efficient, which helps them to produce more faster, which means you export more, which means more money for your pops, which means more money being drawn from your taxes. Some points to remember about your railroad and factory building capitalists.

Capitalists can build a railroad in any province they wish, but they only build factories in the state where they reside.

If they keep wanting to build factories and you want railroads, that's fine. Let them build a factory and then don't man them. Typically, they will not build the next factory until after at least one pop as been put to work in the existing factory, so they will go to building railroads.

If they build a factory that you think you don't need, don't worry about it. Assign one pop to that factory and wait on the next one. Chances are good they will move on to another factory type, perhaps one that you are looking to get.

If you think you need factories but the capitalists keep building railroads, again don't sweat it. You really need those railroads, whether you believe you do or not. Let them build the railroads. They'll get back to the factories soon enough.

In research, remember that not only clerks research, but so do clergy and capitalists. In the early game, clergy is an important researching pop. I would take a quick look and insure that I have clergy in every state. Choose the smallest pop you can locate, because you don't want to lose a large pop from any production. At some point, research will make clerks the best researchers in your population, but I don't believe they diminish anything from the clergy. Some players actually start converting clergy into other pop types at this point of the game, but considering the decrease in consciousness that clergy inflict upon your poor pops, I've never adopted that tactic. Both tactics are worthy, so it's a personal choice.

 

[unmerged(50786)]

You specifically ask for my advice? What a dangerous commodity! Ok. Hang on to your hat, son!

I got a baseball hat for that end
I need all the advise and you gave me some pretty good points to start with. such as this, for example:

First thing to remember. This is not a sprint. It's a long-distance race. You have 100 years of game play to negotiate with. Don't try to do it all at once.

Second thing to remember, in my opinion. Someone else may disagree with me on this one, but just ignore the score. Chances are that you will not wind up #1 at game's end. The important thing is reaching your pre-set goals for this game and this country. Your pre-set goal for this game is not to fail ignominiously! You are in "learning mode". Even after years of play, I still feel like I'm in "learning mode", but then I'm used to failing on a regular basis.

It gets hard not to try to be "number one" especially seeing some amazing scores in some AARs.

I would recommend learning how the economy and politics work and interact first. For the sake of fun, I'll admit that whacking the uncivs with your modern army is well worth it. Just don't let the Franco-Prussian War catch you by surprise. If you are not familiar in how to handle your divisions in a major war with another Great Power, you may find yourself wondering what happened to your gaming skills when the Prussians fall upon you. Trust me, there is no shame in that. Of course, you may be a genius with PI warfare. It took me a while to get the hang of it, though. The really important facet of Vicky warfare to understand, without a solid economy and stable political situation at home, you will not win major wars.

Then it is a lot more interesting than I thought. I never ran any European wars until now and I should read the guide about that soon.

Now, to your questions:

Don't understand.o

I mean once I set a province for the newly formed division to Paris or Lyon, can I change it to something else later? The reason I ask is because during the liberal revolution I lost one division that was homed to rebellious province.

I'm not sure. I never worry about it. My concerns are more along the lines of keeping my pops happy, my manpower and leadership points high, my capitalists building and keeping my eye on alliances. Don't want to get caught accepting an invitation to war only to discover I'm fighting a half-dozen enemies at once.

I do check the ledger very often. What you gave me about alliances is some good advise though. I guess I am "roleplaying" this French adventure a little too much. Lets leave "statistics" to historians.

I don't worry about this one either. I do keep an eye on the immigration page of the ledger from time to time.

Again, I wanted a homogenious empire.

Uh-oh! Careful with this concept. It's a double-edged sword. To encourage migration, you have to make you pops unhappy and broke, which is also the means to encourage emigration. You are just as likely to send them packing to the US as to your colonies. You best be watching the immigration page in the ledger a lot. It is very, very important to remember that the US is an immigrant magnet, even nerfed as it is in Revolutions. Don't close factories or RGOs thinking that the lack of jobs will drive your pops to move. It will do the opposite. The pops see open slots (open jobs) instead of a closed RGO or factory. Instead, download the pop-splitter utility and keep your pops split every few years and let the RGO slots fill up. Once pops don't have work, they will move, so avoid the unemployment social reform as long as possible if you're looking to get pops to move. Just remember, you can only encourage your pops to move. You can't dictate where they will move.

I've read quite a bit about that, but wasn't aware that people migrate to the States that much. I better leave this be.

Yes.

Playing them is a nightmare, so I'll just worry about my own Empire for now.

Slow and steady wins this race, my friend. Your first priority is improving your infrastructure - i.e. building railroads. Improving your infrastructure makes both RGO's and factories more efficient, which helps them to produce more faster, which means you export more, which means more money for your pops, which means more money being drawn from your taxes. Some points to remember about your railroad and factory building capitalists.

I wasn't aware of the role of railroads. I should build a few more, especially that I know the "switch government a day before election" trick.

Capitalists can build a railroad in any province they wish, but they only build factories in the state where they reside.

In my game they are not building anything at all yet. I'll give them time, I guess.

If they build a factory that you think you don't need, don't worry about it. Assign one pop to that factory and wait on the next one. Chances are good they will move on to another factory type, perhaps one that you are looking to get.

Thats some good info, thanks!

In research, remember that not only clerks research, but so do clergy and capitalists. In the early game, clergy is an important researching pop. I would take a quick look and insure that I have clergy in every state. Choose the smallest pop you can locate, because you don't want to lose a large pop from any production. At some point, research will make clerks the best researchers in your population, but I don't believe they diminish anything from the clergy. Some players actually start converting clergy into other pop types at this point of the game, but considering the decrease in consciousness that clergy inflict upon your poor pops, I've never adopted that tactic. Both tactics are worthy, so it's a personal choice.

I should check the bonuses of that "clergy" research method straight away! I need all the speed I can get.

One more question I had was if I should continue expanding amongst uncivilized nations? What are the pro's and con's besides badboy? Should I if playing, for example, Austria, go for Morocco or Korea as a colony?

 

[RELee]

I mean once I set a province for the newly formed division to Paris or Lyon, can I change it to something else later? The reason I ask is because during the liberal revolution I lost one division that was homed to rebellious province.

Ah. No.

I do check the ledger very often. What you gave me about alliances is some good advise though. I guess I am "roleplaying" this French adventure a little too much. Lets leave "statistics" to historians.

Nothing wrong with roleplaying that game if that is your style. I do a bit of that myself. I play by some simple house rules and try to play my country in character, or at least the character I want them to have.

Again, I wanted a homogeneous empire.

I'll come back to this in a moment.

I've read quite a bit about that, but wasn't aware that people migrate to the States that much. I better leave this be.

Folks get a lot of heartburn over this, but the game is prejudiced towards sending unhappy Europeans to the Americas. Not because Johan and company are a bunch of American idolaters, but because that was what historically happened. It can be really annoying when playing a European power, because you can think you are doing well and treating your pops right, and then notice pops emigrating to the Americas anyway.

One more question I had was if I should continue expanding amongst uncivilized nations? What are the pro's and con's besides badboy? Should I if playing, for example, Austria, go for Morocco or Korea as a colony?

Handling badboy from annexing uncivs is easy. Badboy is only given when you finally annex the unciv, so break it up into two or preferably more wars. If you are impatient and want to take them in two, take all the provinces in the first war and then annex the remaining capital province in the second war for a total of 1 badboy point. (*Note that bad boy points given in wars against civilized countries play by completely different rules)

But I typically take uncivs down in three or more wars. Here is why. The first war is simply to humiliate them, which reduces their prestige by -300. Your goal is to reduce their prestige below -100 so that a declaration of war only costs you 1 point. So, the first war has you committing a DOW for -100 prestige points. Don't worry. You'll get all or most of those points back from the peace treaty, assuming you win overwhelmingly. You conquer their armies and occupy all their provinces. Humiliate. Insist on war reparations. After all, they crossed their eyes and stuck out their tongue and made you commit a DOW. Right? So they owe you the money that you spent teaching them a lesson with your expensive military toys. Make 'em pay! Got some points left over? Insist on a few provinces. You will need them to springboard your next invasion. Got it? Good.

What? They didn't accept your offer? Keep the peace offer down to 100 points or less, and offer again. They'll eventually see the wisdom of your offer, so don't despair. Then again, I've had nations accept offers that cost 120 points sometimes. Which reminds me. Make sure you have three or four diplomatic points available when it comes time to go to the negotiating table.

Wait for the treaty to expire. As soon as it does, be ready for the next installment. You should have taken any native soldier pops and built native divisions out of them. You'll need them to enforce peace and tranquility in your new provinces due to nationalism, etc. Build cavalry. Best thing in the world for putting down revolts. In the next installment, you're simply after provinces. Usually. Obviously, if the first humiliation did not get them down below -100 prestige you will have to hit them again because you should be making prestige investments with these wars as well, but if they are already humiliated enough, then just take provinces. You take all but the capital. Not only do you get the provinces bad boy free, you should get some decent numbers of native soldier pops in the deal this time. Enough, in fact, that you will see a marked increase in your manpower. Depending on the situation, you might could make use of this extra manpower to build more native divisions to help with your takeover of the region, or you can simply leave them for reinforcing depleted divisions during war. Around war #3 or 4, you are set to annex the unciv's final province for the penalty of one badboy point.

Similar multi-war steps need to be taken against independent and Great Power nations, because you cannot annex them unless they have first been reduced to three or less provinces. Plus, the prestige return on defeating civilized nations is greater.

Make no mistake about it. The central theme around 19th century world dominance is not creating a big, huge nation through the annexation of other powers. The central theme is prestige. You gain prestige from researching cultural techs and inventions, keeping your defense spending at maximum, issuing social reforms to your populace, and by defeating nations in war and creating and holding satellite nations subordinate to your obvious greatness. Note that while cultural tech may offer some prestige gain, many also introduce new ideas and concepts into your populace, often with negative results from your point of view. Typically, it will be prestige that will be the deciding factor in your score vs. the other empires, once you have the other factors under control and in place.

I'm not saying that you can't or shouldn't make that huge, ahistorical empire. If that's your goal, then go for it. It's just not the 19th century way, however.

One more point and I'll leave you for a while. The whole migration of pops to the colony thing is a great idea. Get enough pops to migrate and you can make the colony a state. Bad news. I've managed to do this once. I was playing Portugal in a pre-Revolutions game and managed to get a colony in Africa that had a gold producing province. Pops love gold. Without even trying, I soon had enough pops moved to make my African colony into a state. So I did ... and promptly tanked my economy due to the increased demands for goods once the pops were in a state vs. a colony. Ruined my whole day.

 

[unmerged(50786)]

Just want to thank you for the mini-guide that you typed up and to say that my French Empire and the new Prussian Empire are doing much better. Thank you!

 

[RELee]

Just want to thank you for the mini-guide that you typed up and to say that my French Empire and the new Prussian Empire are doing much better. Thank you!

I was bored that day. Today it's gonna snow!

 

[Drake Rlugia]

France is one of my favorite countries to play. There are a few things to remember.

- France's pop growth is way lower than it's neighbors. This means it's population doesn't really implode like other European countries. It also means you have to be careful -- a unified Germany will have many more pops than you, which means more pops to use for industrialization, to conscript into the army. You have a lot of things to do as France, such as industrializing and building up a rather large army, but a limited base with what to do with it. Researching techs that promote pop growth and investing in healthcare will help, but your population will probably still lag behind other countries.

- From my experience in the vanilla scenario, early in the game, if your RGOs are full and there are unemployed pops, they will choose to migrate to your provinces in Algeria. I didn't play that game very long, but I assume if I had continued doing so, I could've very easily turned Algeria into a majority French province. I haven't really seen French pops emigrate elsewhere. The USA is a immigration magnet but it really kicks in after the civil war--before that they have parties with slavery as their citizenship policy, which immigrants don't like very much.

- Later in the game, it's really easy to turn any European country into a immigration magnet, at least for European pops. You just need a democratic government (Con Mon or Democracy; Democracy is better I think but either works), a liberal or socialist party in power, preferrably with full citizenship as their citizenship policy and secularized as their religious policy, and good political and social reforms. Even as Austria-Hungary, I've managed to get lots of immigrants from oppressed Russia, as well as from Italy and all over Russia. I believe I even got a few Irish Pops (!). If you have a full citizenship party, these immigration pops will assimilate into your culture. Near the end of my Austria game, I believe I had Germanized Croatia and Galicia.

 

[Anthropoid]

Hey thanks for this thread guys! VERY helpful!

I want to play as France, just because they are the underdog, but not a ridiculously low-down underdog to learn on The advice in this thread helps me to get a sense for what my goals and strategies should be!