• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
So annoying
  1. LMAO, who cooked this game? I even started a support ticket with paradox and they sent me over here (they only do ck3 support now apparently).
It's definitely not ideal that Pdx have now stopped offering support completely... but I guess it's good to know. And not completely unexpected for a game whose latest patch was 6 years ago.
  1. Nothing stated on the game/DLCs (steam) that you "need this for that to work".
I don't think this is in any way malicious, or even particularly negligent. It's just a consequence of Pdx's business model - they rely on DLC sales to support ongoing development of each game, which means it's increasingly difficult to do a comprehensive test of every combination of DLCs. (And also, my impression is that the vast majority of their testing was "all DLC" and "all DLC except the latest one".)
  1. The wiki are just "archeologist" digging up fossil instead of "GOD" explaining their creation.
The "explanations" are in the dev diaries and patch notes... and are often incomplete. On the other hand, the devs have said (for several different games) that they *use* the community wiki extensively in their work. Something something wisdom of crowds, I guess.
  1. Will i buy the DLCs: NO! (what if something "missing" next? Buy more? All of it?)
Fair. But it's worth watching out for the odd occasion when the DLC are massively on sale: humble bundle alerts, steam wishlist, etc.
Okay... So false advertising? But they can just update the text in the DLC OR a "quality of life" patch. (?Do they still have a ck2 dev team is another issue?)
I'm pretty confident in speaking for them here: they do not have a CK2 dev team any more. At best, they might have an employee come along and release a patch as a passion project (I think this happened with one of their older games a year or two ago?)... but that's rather unlikely.
 
  • 1Like
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
Some results; I played the characters in question and let the game run for a bit after unpausing on taking a concubine/consort and on converting.

...

Well, I am pretty sure I have seen worse, but this is still a pretty impressive mess even by CK2 standards...

Some potentially interesting discoveries:
- Polygamy consistently beats men being able to take concubines regardless of where the concubines come from (government, society, or religion).
- Women can be set to take consorts even if their religion has polygamy.
- Pagan women can take consorts without CM/HL if their government allows it even if their religion does not normally allow it; probably also true for pagan men (I didn't think to go Hellenic to test it).
- Society-based concubines/consorts works without CM/HL, but they do not show up on your character screen unless your religion has them.
- No government appears to unlock concubines/consorts without CM/HL (religions still work).
- Concubines/consorts don't consistently show up in the field for them when they are unlocked by your government even with all DLCs active; my current guess is that it requires CM/HL plus at least one of "Religion has max_constors > 0" and "Tribal or Nomadic" (unsure if that has to be the default Tribal and Nomadic governments or any government passing is_tribal/is_nomadic = yes would work).
That was a lot of work - thanks!
- Akhad Moskha Dulo (male Sunni nomad): Has polygamy.
- Hakam Atef (male Sunni tribal): Has polygamy.
This is a particularly interesting finding, because it seems to contradict the wiki. (It doesn't explicitly say "Muslim tribals have concubinage not polygamy", but it hints at it: "Muslim tribal and nomadic rulers cannot ask for concubines from iqta realms; they have to invite the woman to their court first.")
 
  • 1
Reactions:
So CM is for Tribal and HL is for Nomad?
If you want to unlock concubinage for tribal players who don't have polygamy or concubinage via their religion, you need CM or HL (or both).

HL also allows you to play as a nomad. (Nomads need concubinage from their government, since they change religion easily & frequently, so it makes sense that this DLC unlocks concubinage for the player based on their government.)

That CM also unlocks concubinage for players based on government seems a bit weird. Perhaps it's because there are a lot of tribal Christians in Britannia in the 769 start date?

Also does the consort get "set aside" penalty?
If a consort/concubine is removed by a deliberate action (right-click on them and "set concubine aside"), then they receive the opinion penalty. If they are removed by the game engine (eg. changing religion, changing government, or lacking DLC) then they do not get the opinion penalty.

*2021-3.3.5.1* so 4 years - there still hope ;)
2020-21 only had security and Linux/Mac compatibility hotfixes. No gameplay changes. Hence why I referred to 2019 (patch 3.3).
 
  • 1
Reactions:
If a consort/concubine is removed by a deliberate action (right-click on them and "set concubine aside"), then they receive the opinion penalty. If they are removed by the game engine (eg. changing religion, changing government, or lacking DLC) then they do not get the opinion penalty.
I thought it operate like council auto-layoff (not all) every time heir inherits which gives "fired from council" penalty
 
Last edited:
That CM also unlocks concubinage for players based on government seems a bit weird. Perhaps it's because there are a lot of tribal Christians in Britannia in the 769 start date?

While I don't think it is a good implementation, I can easily see how it happened.

Tribals came with 2.2 (alongside CM), concubines were previously DLC content, new government playability was previously DLC content, and governments were significantly more hardcoded at the time; take all of that together and all it takes is a small internal miscommunication ("Tribals and their ability to take concubines is coming with [heard as in] CM, yes") or the decision to make them free coming partway through development combined with QA not realizing that there are three components to the "Can tribals take concubines?" test (tribal, religion being (un)able to take concubines , CM or not)...
 
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
-Tribal-Christian should get a difficulty+.
Nah, IMO tribal Christian is fun: many of the cool features of paganism/nomads (raiding, pillaging, concubines (with the right DLC)) with few of the downsides (not locked into gavelkind, not subject to holy wars from your Christian neighbours). And it's viable until surprisingly late in the game (eg. with retinues, and by calling your vassals into wars (using quantity to compensate for your lower army quality)).
 
I looked into if this was reported around the time CM was released and found this, which claims it is WAD. This does of course not match the common perception, but I am pretty sure CK2 isn't marketed with anything like "Play as a Tribal ruler and take the wives and daughters of your enemies as your concubines" as a listed feature (or screenshots or the like highlighting the govermment desc in a base game context), so no false advertising (not even back when CK2 wasn't free to play).

I don't think any further CK2 bugfixes will be coming, and with this being WAD (unless that dev post is wrong) I would imagine the fix would be to make the government desc have conditional loc regarding concubines and to maybe update the DLC recommendations to have "With [CM/HL, if that also worked], you gain the ability to take concubines as a tribal ruler" if you select a Christian/Jewish tribal ruler; not the desired fix from a player standpoint, but the correct fix to make from a dev standpoint (because the issue is that the government desc is wrong).
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Test 1:
- Matilda di Canossa, converted to Norse: CAN take consorts; Norse women do NOT get it from their religion! <-- WHAT IS THIS?

Some potentially interesting discoveries:
- Pagan women can take consorts without CM/HL if their government allows it even if their religion does not normally allow it; probably also true for pagan men (I didn't think to go Hellenic to test it).

I have a hypothesis. The ability to take concubines is a combination of max_consorts and (wo)men_can_take_consorts, so Matilda was able to take consorts because her religion had max_consorts = 3 and her government had women_can_take_consorts = yes.

This suggests that CM/HL is required for max_consorts from governments to be active for the player, but (wo)men_can_take_consorts from governments is not gated by DLC and just plain always works.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
I have a hypothesis. The ability to take concubines is a combination of max_consorts and (wo)men_can_take_consorts, so Matilda was able to take consorts because her religion had max_consorts = 3 and her government had women_can_take_consorts = yes.

This suggests that CM/HL is required for max_consorts from governments to be active for the player, but (wo)men_can_take_consorts from governments is not gated by DLC and just plain always works.

There seems to be an extra complication to it (I tested the below with all DLCs active):
- If the feudal government has women_can_take_consorts = yes (with no max_consorts set for the government), you cannot take consorts as a Norse woman.
- If the feudal government has women_can_take_consorts = yes and max_consorts = 1, you can take 3 consorts as a Norse woman.
- If you set "men_can_take_consorts = no" on the Tribal government, Norse tribal men can still take concubines. The religion only has the implicit "men_can_take_consorts = yes", but it has max_consorts = 3.
- If you convert to Hellenic in the above case, you cannot take consorts as a Tribal ruler. The religion has the same implicit "men_can_take_consorts = yes", but it has no max_consorts value.
- If you add an explicit "men_can_take_consorts = yes" to the Hellenic religion, you still cannot take concubines if the Tribal government has a "men_can_take_consorts = no".
- If you set an explicit "men_can_take_consorts = yes" on the Tribal government and also a "men_can_take_consorts = no" on the Hellenic religion, you can take consorts.
- If you set Tribal's max_consorts to 1, have an explicit "men_can_take_consorts = yes" on the government, and set Norse to "men_can_take_consorts = no", Norse men can take 3 concubines.

I suspect the following:
- If there is an implicit "yes" and a max_consorts > 0 from the same source, you can take consorts even if there is an explicit no from another source.
- If there is an explicit "yes" and a max_consorts > 0 from the same source, you can take consorts even if there is an explicit no from another source.
- If there is an explicit "yes"but max_consorts = 0 (I only tested the default case, not the explicit case) for that source, then you cannot take consorts if there is an explicit "no" coupled with a max_consorts > 0 from another source.
- If there is an explicit "yes" but max_consorts = 0 (I only tested the default case, not the explicit case) for that source, then you cannot take consorts if there is an implicit "no" coupled with a max_consorts > 0.
- An explicit "yes" coupled with max_consorts = A > 0 from source 1 plus an explicit "no" coupled with max_consorts = B > 0 from source 2 means you can take B consorts even if B > A.

Or, a bit shorter:
- You need an implicit or explicit "yes" and max_consorts > 1 from the same source (religion, government (with CM/HL), society) to be able to take concubines/consorts.
- If any source matches the above, the highest number from any source will be used even if that source has an implicit or explicit "no". Unsure how this interacts with not having CM/HL if the higher number comes from the government (which seems to get a hardcode "no" in that case).


To me, this implies that if you were to reform the Hellenic religion with Enatic Clans (setting women to be able to take consorts and men to not be able to take concubines on the religion level, with the default (implicit) max_consorts = 0 there) and had a character with a government with the implicit defaults (men yes, women no) and max_consorts > 1 (e.g. vanilla Tribal) then they'd have the ability to take concubines if male but not the ability to take consorts if female.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
Nah, IMO tribal Christian is fun: many of the cool features of paganism/nomads (raiding, pillaging, concubines (with the right DLC)) with few of the downsides (not locked into gavelkind, not subject to holy wars from your Christian neighbours). And it's viable until surprisingly late in the game (eg. with retinues, and by calling your vassals into wars (using quantity to compensate for your lower army quality)).
Scary story: They raided and took my wife, my last surviving daughter! Refused to release my wife, forced my only daughter/heir as concubine, i cannot divorce (pope said no), no plot power, no luck on court event, concubinage is my only way out… but no D L C! Boo!

-Players should get a +1% difficulty notice when playing vanilla tribal-christian imo.
 
Last edited:
Scary story: They raided and took my wife, my last surviving daughter! Refused to release my wife, forced my only daughter/heir as concubine, i cannot divorce (pope said no), no plot power, no luck on court event, concubinage is my only way out… but no D L C! Boo!

-Players should get a +1% difficulty notice when playing vanilla tribal-christian imo.
You can declare war on people who have forced a closed relative into concubinage. Getting powerful enough to win the war is going to be hard, but probably not impossible.

You can raid to get money and prestige. You can set your councilors to the troop producing tasks. You probably cannot extract tribute (I think that comes from Horse Lords), but you can probably build up enough power to start expanding (depending on exactly what neighbors you have). The hard part is always the defensive pagan attrition bonus, which goes away if you build a fort in the province (or have military organization 4). If it doesn't work, well, then you have a campaign where the universe conspired against you.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: