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Just saying that blaming Hitler for failures was quite convenient for lots of people.

A perennial popular topic, Wunderwaffen. The Heer pushed for mechanically unreliable monsters like the Tiger, circles amongst the Luftwaffe advocated for a Me-262 that could bomb...
 
I think the idiocy part has more to do with the myth that he sabotaged his wonderfull generals in the eastern front and that led to the defeat not that it never could be won in the first place.
yeah, like how manstein's insistence to continue Kursk lead to disaster following fourth Kharkov, as army group south disintegrated into 1944, opening the way for Bagration.
 
Depends how you measure it. In absolute scale you could be right by certain metrics. In relative scale I think there are quite a few Eastern-European nations that lost more.
This.
And we lost the most. We lost the largest part of the population, we lost clay, we lost our independence despite being technically a "winner".
Germania delendam est :mad:
 
Depends how you measure it. In absolute scale you could be right by certain metrics. In relative scale I think there are quite a few Eastern-European nations that lost more.

I'd say pretty much the whole Eastern Europe.

Yuge chunks of the population killed, communist regimes for the next 50 years, much more sensitive than the prestige loss of the UK. I'd even include Soviet Union here - nominally won, but dragged itself into useless dominance over Eastern Europe and very costly Cold War. Plus, on ideological level, WW2 was a big boost to Stalin's image - if without it he would be just a dick, with it he is a victorious war leader.

Also, if we go by prestige, Germany got hit harder than the UK I'd say.
 
The thread doesn't make it out of page 1 without being derailed beyond recovery.

Anyways back on topic, the only thing I don't understand about invading the USSR due to lack of oil is that the USSR was supplying Germany with oil, in fact the last train into Germany was a train loaded with oil. If Hitler was able to take out GB then he could just import oil and everything else from abroad and not pay the Soviets.
 
The thread doesn't make it out of page 1 without being derailed beyond recovery.

Anyways back on topic, the only thing I don't understand about invading the USSR due to lack of oil is that the USSR was supplying Germany with oil, in fact the last train into Germany was a train loaded with oil. If Hitler was able to take out GB then he could just import oil and everything else from abroad and not pay the Soviets.

You are exactly correct.

This is General Karl Haushofer's design, the godfather of modern Geo-Politics: a pan-Asian alliance of Germany-Russia-Japan to overthrow the Anglo-American Jewish Cabal threatening to overthrow the world. It is the one sold to his disciple, Rudolph Hess, and discussed in depth during Haushofer's weekly visits to Landsberg Prison with Hess and his best-friend/roomate Adolph Hitler, following the Beerhall Putsch.

Haushofer is the architect of the Tri-Partate Alliance, and the Russian-German Non-Aggression Pact. Haushofer is an adept and a disciple of Helene Blavatsky and her 'Secret Doctrine', which shows most clearly in Hess. It opens doors in Russia, and in Japan through the Black Dragon, that might otherwise have been closed. And explains why Stalin trusted Hitler and was shocked when the Germans backstabbed Stalin and Haushofer.

Hitler, however, had more than one mentor. And his primary benefactors HATED the Soviets with a passion. Not surprising, since Adolph shows repeatedly he has no problem backstabbing anyone, friend and foe alike. Even his homosexual 'friend' and protector from the early days of the party, Ernst Rohm, felt that Long Knife one night.

The rest is documented history. Hitler crosses the border, and places a higher priority on his 'extra-cirricular activities' than trying to pacify and control the Russian population or wage war against the Soviet military machine. And Germany pays dearly for his ambition.

(Although I thought the last trains out of Russia, which passed by troops hiding along the border, who were waiting for it to pass by, was filled with grain. The story I remember came out of Paul Carell's 'Hitler moves East' of which my copy is missing the first twenty pages due to age and abuse, or I would double check. )
 
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Hitler didn't need any "mentor" telling him what to do, he was perfectly capable of making decisions on his own, and he did. Invading the Soviet Union was his idea, not the idea of anyone else, and it weren't any people who hated the Soviets who pushed him in that direction, as he himself already hated the Soviets anyway and had always planned to bring them down. There wasn't anyone in "control" of him. He certainly didn't mind giving underlings all sorts of authority, and he signed off on lots of stupid ideas if you just caught him in the right mood, but no one got to influence his core decisions.

The thread doesn't make it out of page 1 without being derailed beyond recovery.

Anyways back on topic, the only thing I don't understand about invading the USSR due to lack of oil is that the USSR was supplying Germany with oil, in fact the last train into Germany was a train loaded with oil. If Hitler was able to take out GB then he could just import oil and everything else from abroad and not pay the Soviets.

Well, that already starts from a wrong assumption. Hitler didn't invade the Soviet Union over a lack of oil. The resources of that territory were a longterm fix to the lack of resources, but they had very little to do with the immediate war-effort. The original idea was that Britain could be brought to its knees if the last remaining power on the continent was removed as a possible ally. Hence pushing this attack, which was planned to happen after the war in the west had been won, to happen before that anyway.

That obviously created the exact situation the British were hoping for, but that kind of got lost on Hitler. Though I guess one has to take into account that everyone expected the USSR to fall very quickly. If that had unhapped (unlikely, but lets roll with it), Britain would indeed have been left with no help on the continent and basically no chance to land anywhere in force in the next few years either. It also would have solved the resource-issue for future endeavours. It's only when a quick success didn't happen, that this really backfired on the resource situation.
 
(Although I thought the last trains out of Russia, which passed by troops hiding along the border, who were waiting for it to pass by, was filled with grain. The story I remember came out of Paul Carell's 'Hitler moves East' of which my copy is missing the first twenty pages due to age and abuse, or I would double check. )
You could be right, I got from a side note on a documentary and those are notoriously full of inaccuracies on details both big and small. The train could also have had both grain and oil too I guess.
 
Hitler didn't need any "mentor" telling him what to do, he was perfectly capable of making decisions on his own, and he did. Invading the Soviet Union was his idea, not the idea of anyone else, and it weren't any people who hated the Soviets who pushed him in that direction, as he himself already hated the Soviets anyway and had always planned to bring them down. There wasn't anyone in "control" of him. He certainly didn't mind giving underlings all sorts of authority, and he signed off on lots of stupid ideas if you just caught him in the right mood, but no one got to influence his core decisions.



Well, that already starts from a wrong assumption. Hitler didn't invade the Soviet Union over a lack of oil. The resources of that territory were a longterm fix to the lack of resources, but they had very little to do with the immediate war-effort. The original idea was that Britain could be brought to its knees if the last remaining power on the continent was removed as a possible ally. Hence pushing this attack, which was planned to happen after the war in the west had been won, to happen before that anyway.

That obviously created the exact situation the British were hoping for, but that kind of got lost on Hitler. Though I guess one has to take into account that everyone expected the USSR to fall very quickly. If that had unhapped (unlikely, but lets roll with it), Britain would indeed have been left with no help on the continent and basically no chance to land anywhere in force in the next few years either. It also would have solved the resource-issue for future endeavours. It's only when a quick success didn't happen, that this really backfired on the resource situation.

Your comment about Hitler only makes sense if you keep him hermetically sealed in a glass jar until September 1, 1939; where he stands at the top of the ladder, at the height of his power, with no earthly peer and master of all he surveyed.

Researching his life before and during his climb up the ladder; you will find a long string of mentors, teachers, unexpected allies, and hidden surprises.

And, after that, it is a swift descent into decay that leaves him enfeebled, drug dependant, hallucinating, finding it impossible to separate real military units from phantom columns marching to the rescue; and totally dependent on the few individuals he trusted absolutely.

Regarding your point on the invasion of the Soviet Union, the quote you are looking for is 'kick the door in, and the whole rotten structure will fall down around their ears'. And the very real concern over a two front war is manifested by Rudolph Hess's flight to Scotland to sue for peace, where he is told by the Duke of Hamilton the Allies believe 'Adolph Hitler to be Satan's representative on earth and with whom no peace is possible'.

IF, and I stress the if, IF Britain made peace, and the Soviet Union was isolated; almost certainly the Germans would have won. Which was what the Nazis wanted to believe, Russia was isolated, a pariah to the West, and Britain and the United States both had vocal minorities cheering Nazi Germany onward. Including King Edward VIII and his whore, before he was ousted for a wide variety of reasons. But war makes strange bedfellows, and your enemy's enemy quickly becomes your friend.
 
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You could be right, I got from a side note on a documentary and those are notoriously full of inaccuracies on details both big and small. The train could also have had both grain and oil too I guess.

Quite possibly.