HoI3: Leadership

[hellfish6]

For HoI3 I'd like to see an enhanced leadership/trait system.

Proposals:

1. Attach major generals to divisions. Likewise, attach rear admirals to ships and major generals to air units (similar to the way brigades work now). Attach LtGens, Generals and Field Marshals (and naval equivalents) to higher headquarters (groups of 2+ divisions as normal). This way a Corps Commander lieutenant general can still have overall command of three divisions, with no commander penalty, and he can have three junior officers underneath them who provide leadership effects to their respective divisions.

2. Provide career, combat and personality traits. Career traits are backgrounds of the officers (what they were professionally trained in - every officer should have one), combat traits are specific skill sets that officers acquire over their careers (some officers may not warrant this trait), and personality traits are exactly what they sound like (again, not all officers may warrant this if they had no outstanding personality traits).

Career traits -career backgrounds of the officers (what they were professionally trained in - every officer should have one). Bonuses are relatively small because nearly all general officers are somewhat cross trained during their career, though the majority of their time is spent in their specific field of specialty.

Army
Infantryman (5% combat bonus to infantry divisions)
Cavalryman (5% bonus to cavalry divisions, 3% bonus to tank divisions)
Tanker (5% combat bonus to tank divisions)
Artilleryman (2.5% combat bonus to any division)
Engineer (5% defense bonus to any division)
Logistician (5% bonus to ESE to any division)
Commando (5% bonus to airborne/marine/mountain divisions)
Staff Officer (5% bonus to org levels)

Navy
Gunner (5% combat bonus to heavy cruisers/battleships/battlecruisers)
Aviator (5% combat bonus to carriers)
Submariner (5% combat bonus to subs)
Engineer (5% speed/5% range bonus)
Navigator (10% range bonus)
Tin Can Sailor (5% combat bonus for destroyers/light cruisers)
Staff Officer (5% bonus to org levels)

Air Force
Fighter Pilot (5% combat bonus to interceptors)
Bomber Pilot (5% combat bonus to tac/strat bombers)
Attack Pilot (2.5% combat bonus to multirole fighter and CAS)
Patrol Pilot (5% combat bonus to NAV)
Staff Officer (5% org bonus)

Combat Traits - specific skill sets that officers acquire over their careers. For example, some officers may believe that speed and unpredictability is essential in warfare, so they get a maneuverist bonus. Other officers may believe that it’s more important to destroy the enemy, so they get an attritionist bonus. Some more mundane officers may not have any combat traits. Because Combat Traits are skills acquired over a career, an officer can obtain these traits via combat as well as having them pre-assigned to specific leaders.

Army
Attritionist (5% soft attack bonus)
Maneuverist (5% speed bonus)
Defender (5% defense bonus)
Attacker (5% attack bonus)
Trickster (5% combat bonus)
Brilliant (10% combat bonus - rare)
Scout (5% detection bonus)
Assaulter (10% combat bonus vs. fortifications)
Winter Warrior (10% combat bonus in winter)
Jungle Rat (10% combat bonus in jungles)
Mountaineer (10% combat bonus in mountains and hills)
Desert Fox (10% combat bonus in mountains)
Ranger (10% combat bonus in forests)
Amphibian (10% combat bonus for amphibious assaults)
City Buster (10% combat bonus in cities)
Counter-Attacker (increased chance of counterattack combat event)
Assaulter (Increased Chance for Assault combat event)
Encircler (Increased Chance for Encirclement combat event)
Ambusher (Increased Chance for Ambush combat event)
Disciplined (Increased Chance for Delay combat event)
Hedgehog (Increased Chance for Tactical Withdrawal combat event)
Blitzer (Increased Chance for Breakthrough combat event)

Navy
Spotter (increases chances of detecting enemy units)
Sea Wolf (increases convoy attack efficiency – cruisers/battlecruisers/submarines)
Blockade Runner (decreases chances of being detected)
Superior Tactician (5% combat bonus)
Littoral Fighter (10% combat bonus in shallow water)
Night Fighter (10% combat bonus at night)

Air Force
Spotter (increases chances of detecting enemy units)
Superior Tactician (10% combat bonus vs air units)
Night Flyer (10% combat bonus at night)
Mud Mover (10% tactical bombing bonus)
Carpet Bomber (10% strategic bombing bonus)
Fleet Destroyer (10% naval attack bonus)

Personality Traits – These traits reflect the personality of officers, which historically had a significant impact during war. Personality traits can be positive or negative (or both) and reflect the influence a leader has over his staff and his subordinates. Some leaders can inspire others to greatness, some leaders can drag their units down with them or paralyze them with ineptitude or fear. Personality traits may very rarely be obtained via combat or over time (event driven?)

These are taken directly from Victoria. Traits are either the same as Vicky or adapted to HoI3.

war_college
engineer
armchair_general
bureaucrat_speed
generals_aide
amateur
madman
aristocrat
drillmaster
butcher
exranker
adventurer
debutante
colonial
disgraced
priest
rising_star
politician
poet
cartographer
professor
old_school
eccentric_genius
gifted_administrator
innovative_tactician
expert_raider
natural_born_leader
megalomaniac
hated
cursed_luck
clueless
diplomat
powerful_friends
immoral
womanizer
warmonger
corrupt
bootlicker
sycophant
toady
yesman
brownnoser
spoiled
school_of_defense
school_of_offense
school_of_the_bayonet
school_of_firepower
artillerist
uncommonly_young
sucker
sad_sack
unfit
unqualified
pawn
elderly
incompetent
aggressive
relentless
active
earnest
persistant
balanced
cautious
coolminded
inspiring
gallant
arrogant
vainglorious
brutish
bigoted
impetuous
polite
tactful
diplomatic
glory_hound
vicious
hellbent
deeply_religious
imperious
choleric
fanatic
irate
wrathful
calm
reserved
harsh
merciless
implacable
careful
meticulous
openminded
charismatic
impulsive
intuitive
resourceful
romantic
brash
daring
soldierly
disciplined
unflinching
bold
audacious
heroic
stout
stalwart
stouthearted
steadfast
chivalrous
ballsy
aweless
dauntless
confident
manful
doughty
gutsy
spirited
resolute
defiant
able
competent
expert
smart
intelligent
brilliant
sharp
keen
clever
skilled
efficient
au_fait
indifferent
mediocre
lackluster
timid
chickenhearted
lilylivered
soft
spineless
unmanly
yellow
pusillanimous
coward
craven
bastard
shirker
scared
maladroit
undisciplined
incapable
inept
inefficient
perverse
unruly
disorderly
careless
wretched
pisspoor
unsound
strange
shrinking_violet

 

[unmerged(59071)]

that new leadership system is a must in any new addon or hoi !

 

[coolguy684]

that would be a great leder system.
additionally, i think there should be events that will give certain leaders the "brilliant" bonus.
some leaders that deserve it are-Sepp Dietrich, von Manstein, Rommel, Patton, Montgomery, Zhukov, Eicke, "Papa" Hoth- many leaders deserve it, but these are the ones i can name off the top of my head.

 

[unmerged(90356)]

that would be a great leader system.
additionally, i think there should be events that will give certain leaders the "brilliant" bonus.
some leaders that deserve it are-Sepp Dietrich, von Manstein, Rommel, Patton, Montgomery, Zhukov, Eicke, "Papa" Hoth- many leaders deserve it, but these are the ones i can name off the top of my head.

I would limit this list to truly great generals not just good generals of high rank, I think that these generals should have a significant bonus so as to represent their flair and the way that they could win against great odds, they should be:

Manstein, Zhukov, Patton, Guderian, Model and possibly a Japanese General however my knowledge of the Japanese military staff is less good so I would not like to pass judgement on this.

I have left out people like Rommel and Monty because although they were great generals they were not exceptional.

I also think the idea of the proposed leader system sounds great.

 

[unmerged(94562)]

I like Hellfish6's idea, with the exception of the personality traits. That's a lot like the Total War series. It's OK at first but after a while you wind up with so many pluses and minuses that you don't even bother to try and figure it anymore. I wind up just caring about the skill rating. Fielding and Bullfrog's ideas are quite nice, that is a slight pain sorting through the generals trying to find the one who has the skill you are looking for.

 

[hellfish6]

I like Hellfish6's idea, with the exception of the personality traits. That's a lot like the Total War series. It's OK at first but after a while you wind up with some many pluses and minuses that you don't even bother to try and figure it anymore. I wind up just caring about the skill rating. Fielding and Bullfrog's ideas are quite nice, that is a slight pain sorting through the generals trying to find the one who the skill you are looking for.

I pulled the personality part right out of Victoria.

 

[henryjai]

it's too detailed.

i would rather have just personalities and combat experience

it's ridiculous for a guy that just commanded infantryman before and suddenly become an expert in tanks, running around and killing everyone...

while personalities affects the combat,

1. Navy traits (for example)

- Aggressive : the Admiral will have a bonus in detecting enemy vessels, as well as closing distance, but slightly lowers Org and defence.
- Careful : opposite of above.
- Big Gun-list : his battleships and heavy cruisers will perform better
...
...

every traits will better have bonus and negative bonus.

2. Navy experiences

- Combat experience : provide general bonus for ships.
- Leadership : something related to lead a combat
- Surface Action Experience : provide bonus for gunnery battles
- Carrier Warfare Experience : provide bonus for carrier battles
- ASW experience : provide bonus for ASW

...
...

3. Army traits
- Aggressive
- static warfare
- old guard
- Defensive
- Careful
- careless
...

...

i don't like to type them all you after reading the above you should understand my ideas.


there should also be loyalty of leaders that will be affected by boredom :rofl: and dissent.

 

[hellfish6]

it's too detailed.

i would rather have just personalities and combat experience

it's ridiculous for a guy that just commanded infantryman before and suddenly become an expert in tanks, running around and killing everyone...

Why not? Most great tank leaders in the war were infantry leaders first... or cavalry. A lot of officers were able to adapt, and the bonuses aren't gigantic. Maybe one of the personality traits would prevent an experience bonus from happening - like 'old guard' or 'stubborn'.

 

[WRusco]

Regarding your point no. 1:

I'd like to see this carried right up the command structure, so that a corps (with a Lt. Gen) can be assigned/linked to an army (full General in command), which in turn could be assigned to an army group (FM commanding). It'd be really nice to also have a page in the statistics tab that graphically illustrates your command structure and commanders, with the ability to mouse over each component unit and see its commander. It would also be useful to be able to filter select units belonging to a particular formation - i.e. when you drag a window to select units on the map, you could filter it to only select units belonging to the 21st Army Group, for example.

Combat Mission had a easy to see command structure. Although set up for platoons with line of sight, it could be used in HOI I believe with minor modifications.They had RED lines indicating squads and support weapons in command range and BLACK lines for units out of commanad range. Advanced Communications could extend this range.

 

[unmerged(100959)]

The armeecommandtree is a brilliant idea, it is just what I want in HoI3.
A tree of your commanders and a drag-system for easy changing in structure.
Its silly to have one general for 12 divisions. This way you can go thru the game using less than half of your officers. Every division has to have a generalmajor or higher attached.

I also think it should be redeploymenttime when your changing generals. The way it is now, you can take one general from one side of the world and put him in command in another unit on the other side at he is there one hour later. When your fighting against especially Soviet it feels like you face the same generals all the time.

Another thing is when you encircle a division and defeat them it should also lead to the possibility to take the general like Soviet took Paulus in Stalingrad. The possibility to try to fly out the general could appear if your division is encircled with the chance to save him. Like if you have 5 divisions encircled and you try to get them thru to your line maybe, like 2 out 5 get inprisoned and you lose them. I think that would lead to more awareness of your generals.

 

[coreymas]

Hellfish,

Can i recommend that you compile all of your thoughts into one post (I recommend the first post) and as such your recommendations might make it into an add-on pack for HOI2.

Corey

 

[unmerged(99265)]

Agreed to the core of the proposal. specially the portion which suggests the hiearchy of majorgenerals, lietunant and fieldmarshalls more realistic to be able to use different ranks with different capabilities instead of simply promoting the lower ranks to higher ones.

Nevertheless I think that perhaps the Paradox have also thought about these measures. but don't forget that the game whatsoever, is meant to be played. Should the complication of the game be increased so that managing the game would become as troublesome as a real war the company might lose a great number of its gamers for the bitter complication however I am among the ones who should remain loyal to more realistic versions