HOI4 Dev Diary - Meet some new people

[UltimaGecko]

I remember one of the devs posting a while ago that they would not add any more starting dates, is it just players talking about it or was there devs talking about earlier start dates too on this forum

podcat talking about how only 4% of games uses the 1939 bookmark and the tendency of players to use the earliest bookmark, including in other Paradox games.


I usually prefer to go early, except CK2, where the Viking start can be a bit too early at times (and the world ends up drastically ahistorical). EU also has some neat things you can do with later bookmarks. HOI4 does seem to have the mechanics in place where the devs could, conceivably (but with an immense amount of superhuman effort), make a "pick any day in WW2" timer like CK2, EU3 and EU4.

Two of the new people seem programming and AI focused, so I am hoping to see good advances in that area first. Mods can fill in wishful wants but not mechanics and core gameplay.

 

[Pyro157]

1939 is also pretty fun in that the AI tends to play out WW2 in a fairly historically accurate way.

My 1939 Nat China playthrough has the USA actually carrying out large-scale bombing campaigns on Tokyo, which I've never seen them do in 1936 playthroughs.

 

[Bendeguz]

Hungary is almost twice as popular as Romania. In fact right now the only nations more popular to play is Germany, Soviet, USA and Italy. I suspect part of this is because its new stuff (my check doesnt care if you own DoD or not btw) but clearly Austria-Hungary formation is a big draw.

With that, I fear we have slipped from a WWII game to an arcade game

With this it feels like HOIIV had become to WWII strategy computer games what Michael Bay's Pearl Harbour is to WWII cinema.

Popularity has overtaken historical accuracy. With such a reception I doubt that the Habsburg restoration and the reformation of A-H will ever be placed in its rightful position in the Austrian tree, or that Greater Hungary (ie: the Lands of the Crown of St Stephen as seen in CKII, EUIV, and VicII) will ever be an option. The history if both Austria and Hungary has been short-changed. I know it wasn't intended that way, but it dies feel disrespectful.

DoD player's are not playing Hungary in WWII, they are playing a lie

 

[Nimic]

No one is forcing you to buy the DLC, or use it if you did.

 

[UltimaGecko]

I don't mind the A-H setup, but it's way too easy and I prefer to have a little more historical basis in my games (this is also why I think the 1933 start would be nice, easier to make a resurgent Austria-Hungary a little more plausible with 3 more years to work with).

The problem is the simplicity with which you can accomplish very outlandish things. They should be possible, but they shouldn't be easy. Like creating the Roman Empire (or Byzantium) in CK/EU/Vicky. Or uniting Germany in EU3/EU4. Semi-plausible alternate history has been a big Paradox grand strategy game selling point. A lot of the recent trees are decent, but they also make the AI go a bit off the rails, even with historical focuses on in some cases.

I think DoD was more worth it than TfV (same tree usefulness, more useful mechanics, lower price), but I'd like to see the mechanics get more depth and more basis in historical events (including more potential paths for deviation, but with appropriate rarity).

 

[Bendeguz]

No one is forcing you to buy the DLC, or use it if you did.

I assume this is aimed at me, so I'll presume to retort.

First, I had this pre-purchased as a Field Marshal pack buyer, and secondly I believe that all media has a responsibility to show the past as accurately and with as much respect as it can. I, and others place a certain amount of trust in an overall respected company when it comes to this. As far as I know they have successfully done this continuously in their products until now.

DoD's representation of Hungarian interwar politics is historically inaccurate to the point of farce, includes impossible fantasy at the expense of actual events, and it does not even follow it's own internal logic of multi-ethnic states as represented in Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia.

In saying that, AH should not be eliminated completely, just placed in the Austrian national focus tree
I mean, let's face it, Austria-Hungary should be lead from Vienna, have troops speaking German, and be led by Austrian generals.

Before we derail this thread any longer though, I, along with others, argue this on another thread, where I attempt to back up my arguments with evidence to prove my point.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/dod-focus-trees-of-hungary.1030427/

Please collect your evidence and debate me here

 

[epicmemory]

With that, I fear we have slipped from a WWII game to an arcade game

With this it feels like HOIIV had become to WWII strategy computer games what Michael Bay's Pearl Harbour is to WWII cinema.

Popularity has overtaken historical accuracy. With such a reception I doubt that the Habsburg restoration and the reformation of A-H will ever be placed in its rightful position in the Austrian tree, or that Greater Hungary (ie: the Lands of the Crown of St Stephen as seen in CKII, EUIV, and VicII) will ever be an option. The history if both Austria and Hungary has been short-changed. I know it wasn't intended that way, but it dies feel disrespectful.

DoD player's are not playing Hungary in WWII, they are playing a lie

Paradox players almost universally love two things: anything Habsburg, and anything Byzantine. I imagine the A-H restoration was placed in Hungary's tree because Austria in HOI4 exists almost solely to feed Germany a decent chunk of military and civilian factories and boost their army a bit to enable Sudetenland.

If there is a dedicated Greek DLC, or one where Greece gets a Paradox-designed NF tree, I'll bet...well, I'll bet the cost of the DLC itself (hey, teachers don't make a lot of money) that there's a Byzantine restoration (or something similar) somewhere in it.

Then again, Italy in HOI4 doesn't have a proper Roman Empire restoration (you sort of get one with the Italy First chain and the faction name, but that's about it).

Anyways, welcome to the team to the new chaps and I, for one, have never been more excited about the future of HOI4. The game gets a lot of flak from some corners, but I went into DoD not expecting to enjoy it and now those nations are some of the most interesting ones to play. I predict good things to come =).

 

[Bendeguz]

Paradox players almost universally love two things: anything Habsburg, and anything Byzantine.

I see where you are coming from, and it does make sense... from a purely game-play meta that is strictly from 1936 to 1945. It does not make it any less disappointing, only more cynical

But considering Czechoslovakia was just promoted from being 'inevitable factory fodder' for Germany, I feel Austria should get the same respect, plus Otto's role as a counterbalance to Nazi influence before 38 and later as a sort of 'government in exile' has so much potential.

 

[hkrommel]

Paradox players almost universally love two things: anything Habsburg, and anything Byzantine.

Can confirm, still waiting for that Greek DLC. The Imperial Eagle shall rise again!

 

[epicmemory]

I see where you are coming from, and it does make sense... from a purely game-play meta that is strictly from 1936 to 1945. It does not make it any less disappointing, only more cynical

But considering Czechoslovakia was just promoted from being 'inevitable factory fodder' for Germany, I feel Austria should get the same respect, plus Otto's role as a counterbalance to Nazi influence before 38 and later as a sort of 'government in exile' has so much potential.

I agree, CZE's "promotion" as you put it means that CZE has the option of going completely ahistorical, and the interwar politics of Hungary, Austria, and Italy and the interplay there affords that entire region of the world an absolute ton of cool and unique NF ideas and trees. An Austrian bulwark with Italy against Germany, an Allied-led "Danube Confederation"...the options for really interesting NF trees are certainly there.

I agree that A-H should have been put with the Austrian tree. My guess is that Austria will never receive a dedicated NF tree and it will remain a state solely designed to boost Germany, even in ahistorical games. TfV and DoD all share a common theme, and the likely future DLC nation packs (some sort of Civil War/Spain/China thing, Greece/Turkey/Bulgaria, Scandinavia/BENELUX/Finland) don't really have a lot of room to 'slot in' Austria, I suppose. Could be wrong, of course!

Heck, I'd like it if every country had unique focuses, voiceovers, sprites, and so on. As long as I get a historical WW2 when I click "historical focuses on", I'm game for pretty some radical ahistorical paths, like a Hungarian-led A-H (or turning the USA fascist in less time than it takes to build Bismarck).

 

[wingo]

@podcat you keep forgetting to tag these diaries for the front page, HOI has low presence there, last one is from the 7th june

 

[mabus81]

Have to agree with @podcat on this one. Judging from the lack of play of the 1939 scenario and the lack of play of similar off-beat start dates in HOI3 I would prefer the HOI4 team to devote their man hours to improving the base game and 1936 start instead of having to research oobs and focus trees for oddball start dates. There are only so many man hours in the pool to assign.

Oddball ahistorical start dates are the fodder for mods.

Well they could always put a price tag on a '33 scenario, at least from my side. If it was properly set up, I'd cough up quite some money for it.

But I agree, lets fix the remaining issues with '36 first.

 

[epicmemory]

Well they could always put a price tag on a '33 scenario, at least from my side. If it was properly set up, I'd cough up quite some money for it.

But I agree, lets fix the remaining issues with '36 first.

If they could do a '33 start without ruining game balance (3 year build up is already huge for a player to mix/max), I'd love to see it. I'd really, really like to see a 1941, 43, and 44 start, though. Heck, even a D-Day +1 day scenario would be a load of fun. And sure, I'd pay for all of it.

 

[Bratyn]

@Bratyn - am curious what you did your thesis on and (far more importantly) what's your favourite WW2 naval vessel?

The thesis title was Anglo-Dutch Relations in the Second World War, so it dealt more with the interwar and WWII political aspects of British, Dutch, American, and (to a lesser extent) Dominion relations, as well as their high-level wartime cooperation and pre-war planning.

Favorite WW2 naval vessel? I'm gonna have to go full Kriegsmarine and say Bismarck-class... But I have to admit that that is mainly based on looks. The Germans sure knew to make some damn sexy-looking ships... Admiral Hipper-class was also a looker.

 

[Misaka_Complex]

I'd like to hope that the devs would finally start to fix some of the unattended bugs in the game which have existed since vanilla with new staff members on board.

 

[Axe99]

The thesis title was Anglo-Dutch Relations in the Second World War, so it dealt more with the interwar and WWII political aspects of British, Dutch, American, and (to a lesser extent) Dominion relations, as well as their high-level wartime cooperation and pre-war planning.

Favorite WW2 naval vessel? I'm gonna have to go full Kriegsmarine and say Bismarck-class... But I have to admit that that is mainly based on looks. The Germans sure knew to make some damn sexy-looking ships... Admiral Hipper-class was also a looker.

Very cool . You'll have to get Podcat to get you working on things for cooperation between allies . Nice choice of ship as well, you're not wrong about them being a mighty good-looking pair of vessels. I promise I was genuinely interested in your favourite ship, and not just looking for an excuse to be able to put this here without being completely off topic .

 

[WarDog]

Favorite WW2 naval vessel? I'm gonna have to go full Kriegsmarine and say Bismarck-class... But I have to admit that that is mainly based on looks. The Germans sure knew to make some damn sexy-looking ships... Admiral Hipper-class was also a looker.

Nice pick! Personally I think there is something sleek and dangerous about Admiral Graf Spee. A fast, powerful vessel with some compromised defenses. But so beautiful! :-D

And then we are officially OT....

 

[Bratyn]

I forgot about Scharnhorst, and might consider it even more awesome than Bismarck, in looks.

But let's make this the last post on that topic... We can always make a BB discussion thread for this stuff.

And thanks again for the warm welcome!

 

[Alex_brunius]

and a nascent fascination with big WWII-era warships (WoWs!). Just gotta talk Podcat into adding more of the latter (and making them more fun to use) in HOI4...

You have our full support here! The naval game mechanics, UI and art in HoI4 are way below/after the other areas now that air got some love.

 

[henzington]

I wholeheartedly agree about start dates with the exception of the old gods in ck2. This was a special case as it added many interesting possibilities like Norse raiders to the game.