House of Cards

[unmerged(43658)]

and one more thing, after such big wars 3provs limit simply doesn't sound right.
we should have scale it with relative country sizes.
and does ashtrakan counts as being in europe?

 

[Duque Alesandro]

it doesnt gives you bonus in fight.
it just boosts your troops morale.
and russilion is mountan right?
that would explain those minuses

and btw im sry for flipping there about that ottoman leader. it just all look so wired to me. we hat major fight in ashtrakan 40k vs 40k or so and i was winning, his troop count reduced to just 3k morale breaking and i had 25k troops left, and then suddenly, my entire army was annihilated. newer saw such lag effects.

Rousillon is a plain but now I took a look on Apr 1598 save and I realised that king Karl (335) was around. It could explain it.

 

[Duque Alesandro]

and one more thing, after such big wars 3provs limit simply doesn't sound right.
we should have scale it with relative country sizes.
and does ashtrakan counts as being in europe?

I agreed. According to income had been great but we didn't finally agreed on something like that so...

Send an explorer to Astrakhan, if he has a X00 skills you're in Europe sire. Anyway, did peace rule talk about European provinces or it just talked about provinces, colonies and TP?

 

[unmerged(63809)]

Maybe I'm reading stats wrong, but I should have infra 5. I received it in the last 20 minutes before session ended. Were these stats based on the most RECENT host save, since I know we rehosted several times at the end. Anyways, as long as its there when we load up for next session the stats page error makes no difference.

 

[BurningEGO]

yeah, I think Ego is spamming aggressively in here. When constructive dialogue ends and spamming begins?

whatever, I'd like a moderator to warn these people to stop improper behavior in private threads, that is, destroying human relations, trying to pick a quarrel, giving an incentive to grow hatred, etc.

solution: I'd recommend to start a thread with the following name: "Spanish-Austrian symbiosis? or how Uls was sieged without mercy by Ego."

Yeah people tell me to "get a life" and i am the one "spamming agressively". Please? You just acted like a victim when you kept the richest part of Italy for yourself and when Spain got 3 non-religion and near worthless provinces in germany. And then basically called me an ignorant, haha... That was truly the funniest part.

You know Uls - in the past game you kept speaking to KOP and he didnt bother listening to you and always laughed in your face (for example, when you wanted your events to be force-fired). You are doing the same thing to me. But i will stop wasting my time in this thread since you refuse to see reason.

P.S: National cause i would verify that if i were you since in the past the same thing hapened to me and we had to edit the save file because everybodies client save stated one thing and host's save stated another.

 

[unmerged(80795)]

C'mon, Ego, I've never insulted you. Don't put words in my mouth, it wasn't never my intention to offend you, it's just the fact you're not being politically correct. My argumentation about Spain-Austria Symbiosis makes sense, not from a province point of view, but in a general point of view. If provinces or leaders are heavy factors here, it doesn't mean a country is relatively well positioned or not since there're some other factors that count. Maybe Spain doesn't have the wealthiest part of Italy, but She drains MP from it. Keeping some of Germany avoids me to have more MP, keeping Netherlands avoids him to compete for colonization, income is no biggie for a colonial country. Some countries, including Austria, have a lot to win if they control the size of Spain in determined times, it isn't diplomatic suicide as you stated. Switching, if deals are signed, they're clear enough and a rule encourages to respect them, could improve game playability a lot.

Now if you only take this game alone, I agree Austria is stronger than some other campaigns. Fortunately game isn't over, we'll see if Austria can keep its position ... or incomes start to play an important role which can put Austria in a disadvantageous scenario. This might happen once colonial/naval countries start to see some world, trade and colonize.

 

[unmerged(80795)]

Maybe I'm reading stats wrong, but I should have infra 5. I received it in the last 20 minutes before session ended. Were these stats based on the most RECENT host save, since I know we rehosted several times at the end. Anyways, as long as its there when we load up for next session the stats page error makes no difference.

it isn't the first time i see this, but i never knew why. do you want me to edit it?

 

[Therion]

and one more thing, after such big wars 3provs limit simply doesn't sound right.
we should have scale it with relative country sizes.
and does ashtrakan counts as being in europe?

Not sure about that. Spain does not even want to cede 3 provinces and his government is about to fall. Imagine if he had to cede more..

 

[unmerged(80795)]

Anyway, did peace rule talk about European provinces or it just talked about provinces, colonies and TP?

let's follow this.

 

[Therion]

- Maximum THREE (3) provinces taken from a human in a war per alliance. Non-european provs count as 1/2, TPs count as 1/5, and CoTs as 2 provinces. After 1650 maximum of FIVE (5) provinces can be taken. After 1700, SEVEN (7) provinces, and after 1800 no peace restrictions. Any number of players or alliances that wage war for a common aim (GMs will decide), will be considered as a single alliance, for the purpose of this rule.

 

[Therion]

and one more thing, after such big wars 3provs limit simply doesn't sound right.
we should have scale it with relative country sizes.
and does ashtrakan counts as being in europe?

Yes, Astrakhan is European. Check the province.csv.

 

[unmerged(80795)]

and one more thing, after such big wars 3provs limit simply doesn't sound right.
we should have scale it with relative country sizes.
and does ashtrakan counts as being in europe?

It's discrimination!

I agreed on this point some time ago. However we have to think of a very good mechanism based on incomes, ManPower and technology, but I'd leave this for future campaigns to be honest.

In 1650 i think we'll be able to take 5.

This province rule will encourage wars because one's forced to go to war many times to take a whole region, a thing i don't dislike though.

 

[unmerged(80795)]

- Maximum THREE (3) provinces taken from a human in a war per alliance. Non-european provs count as 1/2, TPs count as 1/5, and CoTs as 2 provinces. After 1650 maximum of FIVE (5) provinces can be taken. After 1700, SEVEN (7) provinces, and after 1800 no peace restrictions. Any number of players or alliances that wage war for a common aim (GMs will decide), will be considered as a single alliance, for the purpose of this rule.

That reminds me we'll be needing a new GM.

 

[Therion]

Well, you take your time to do the edits, so it's only fair you'll be the one.

 

[unmerged(43658)]

all that mobilization all those casualties all those spent ducats, for just 3 worthless provinces in midlle of nowhere
that rule has to go!
it was written with standard size countries in mind, with two juggernauts like oe and russia clashing it simply looses sense.

year limits have to go too. to demand 5 (or even 3) provs from netherland is to kill it disregarding what year it it
we also need some kind off limit on ducats that can be demanded.
for instance now when i can't ask for more then 3 provs you can bet that i will make very high demand on war reparations. current sultans grandchildren will be still repaying those loans.
and what about other spetial demands like release of vassalship? what if i demand that oe releases Georgia as vassal and then release it from vasalisation, does that goes unde 3provs limit?
if oe won they would for shure ask for russia releasing persia of vassalisation. how much points is that worth?

thease current wars should be resolved under current rules. but those rules must be changed asap!
what we need is something like
'no country can loose more than 10% of it's holdings in single war, euro provinces count as 1, cots 2, non euro and colonies 0.5, and tp 0.2'. so 30 province country can loose around 3 provs. 50 provs country 5. and so on.
also this higher possible demand would make good basis for other special deals. side who won could demand less then maximum provinces in return for other parts of peace deal like vassal releases.
if winning side demand maximum in provinces they cannot make any other demand

what do you guys think?

 

[Therion]

all that mobilization all those casualties all those spent ducats, for just 3 worthless provinces in midlle of nowhere
that rule has to go!
it was written with standard size countries in mind, with two juggernauts like oe and russia clashing it simply looses sense.

year limits have to go too. to demand 5 (or even 3) provs from netherland is to kill it disregarding what year it it
we also need some kind off limit on ducats that can be demanded.
for instance now when i can't ask for more then 3 provs you can bet that i will make very high demand on war reparations. current sultans grandchildren will be still repaying those loans.
and what about other spetial demands like release of vassalship? what if i demand that oe releases Georgia as vassal and then release it from vasalisation, does that goes unde 3provs limit?
if oe won they would for shure ask for russia releasing persia of vassalisation. how much points is that worth?

thease current wars should be resolved under current rules. but those rules must be changed asap!
what we need is something like
'no country can loose more than 10% of it's holdings in single war, euro provinces count as 1, cots 2, non euro and colonies 0.5, and tp 0.2'. so 30 province country can loose around 3 provs. 50 provs country 5. and so on.
also this higher possible demand would make good basis for other special deals. side who won could demand less then maximum provinces in return for other parts of peace deal like vassal releases.
if winning side demand maximum in provinces they cannot make any other demand

what do you guys think?

I agree completely. After the current wars finish, we should apply these rules.

 

[unmerged(80795)]

I don't agree. If we make the war-rule more complex than it is now, it'll give us some headaches, for sure.

-Russia (no one) can't force Oe (someone) to realese vassals, it's always preferable to take those provinces and set them free by oneself.

I don't think the time and quantity limit in the war-rule is that bad. However it is true some people don't realise how bad a stabhit is, it makes revoltic risk higher, it makes one to have a revolt dice, consequently more rebels, it makes one to lose stability which increases rr (revolti risk) and makes incomes lower, it kills tradding too and tech goes slower meanwhile the foe teches faster (because when one occupies a province, he starts to earn its incomes)

I'd personally peace out after reaching to -41 warscore if I have little chance to revert this.

The quantity of the provinces one can take will increase in 1650. can't you wait till then? I've seen games where the province limit were 6 from the beginning, and it wasn't that good as you stated, this rule improves wars without heavy bad consequencies.


I'd like to read more opinions, I'm open for reform. Nevertheless, no reform will be applied for the current wars.

 

[unmerged(63809)]

it isn't the first time i see this, but i never knew why. do you want me to edit it?

No need to edit the stats page. I was just wondering. As long as I have infra five when next session begins all is well.

As far as the peace resolutions are concerned, I vote that we keep them as stated in original game rules. Ammending the rules now or after these wars would only confuse people further.

Also, we have the problem of the Russia / Sweden v. OE war. Mungo has already said he can't play on Sunday which means he will either be subbed or ghosted, and we certainly cant be fighting a ghosted country. Perhaps OE and Russia can hammer out a peace deal in the next day or so.

 

[Duque Alesandro]

all that mobilization all those casualties all those spent ducats, for just 3 worthless provinces in midlle of nowhere
that rule has to go!
it was written with standard size countries in mind, with two juggernauts like oe and russia clashing it simply looses sense.

year limits have to go too. to demand 5 (or even 3) provs from netherland is to kill it disregarding what year it it
we also need some kind off limit on ducats that can be demanded.
for instance now when i can't ask for more then 3 provs you can bet that i will make very high demand on war reparations. current sultans grandchildren will be still repaying those loans.
and what about other spetial demands like release of vassalship? what if i demand that oe releases Georgia as vassal and then release it from vasalisation, does that goes unde 3provs limit?
if oe won they would for shure ask for russia releasing persia of vassalisation. how much points is that worth?

thease current wars should be resolved under current rules. but those rules must be changed asap!
what we need is something like
'no country can loose more than 10% of it's holdings in single war, euro provinces count as 1, cots 2, non euro and colonies 0.5, and tp 0.2'. so 30 province country can loose around 3 provs. 50 provs country 5. and so on.
also this higher possible demand would make good basis for other special deals. side who won could demand less then maximum provinces in return for other parts of peace deal like vassal releases.
if winning side demand maximum in provinces they cannot make any other demand

what do you guys think?

Really it won't be so difficult. You just have to take a look on stats and see, ex: monthly yearly income = 3000, MP = 70, Provinces = 60 (accounting them as we use to do it: 2 for CoT, ...). Then, you can do something like this (the numbers won't necesarily have to be this): (3000 + 5*70 +5*70)/15. So you have a kind of average and you can loose, ex., a province for each 500 points.

However, I have to say that when I decide to face Austrian demands (when she was my ally), I knew I was to be alone and I was thinking in the peace rule we had. With other rule, maybe I had a different behaviour.

Anyway, all the peace rules we're talking about are wrong. It doesn't needed another rule than this: Winner is forced to accept a peace offer for 80% WE. The looser will sure send the offer because if he doesn't, his country will be ruined. So, you could also avoid this crazy situation you're France and in only 15 years you could have your capital totally surrounded by Austrian possesions which will ainslate it from his other possesions. With a rule like I proposed both can force a peace or get a turboannexation. Furthermore, looser won't like to loose an 80% and so, both will prefer to have a negotiation (so winner can get more than he gets by stabhitting offers). Anyway, we should set a province limit (at least for little countries).

I was only talking theorically because this war and probably the next will be solved with our old rule, unless everybody agrees on another rule (and I don't think it will happen).

 

[unmerged(43658)]

province limit is raised in 1650, this is done because it's expected that countries grow over time. but is not necessarily the case. and some countries grow faster some grow slower..
we need relative system. % of how much you can loose.

-Russia (no one) can't force Oe (someone) to realese vassals, it's always preferable to take those provinces and set them free by oneself.

no one can force russia (someone) to sign peace...
what if i decide this war to go on for say another 10 years. im not the one getting hurt.

and if mungo cant play on sundays we should skip them.

EDIT. ahh actually when i think better this discussion has already been done 10 000 times on these forums. usual result is lots of useless pages.