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How do you configure the low countries?

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Savant

Savant

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As an IGC 1.9 user you know that there are several ahistorical choices available to you when you start the game:

a. Default: Spain controls all of the low countries and Franche Comte (FC)

b. Austria controls all of the low countries and FC

c. Austria controls the provinces making up the Netherlands and FC, Spain controls the three Belgian provinces

d. Spain controls the Belgian provinces and FC and a Free Netherlands rules over its core provinces

Which do you choose as your own "default" set up and why do you prefer it? I have no strong preference except to be as accurate as possible. Given that is not among the choices, I assume that play balance drives most choices. What is your preference among these?
 
I start with them being Austrian Habsburg (obviously :D) as they were back then and when 1519 arrives I edit them to Spain ...

Gonna be using the 1520.inc from now on anyway so I don't even have to edit anymore.
 
As I understand it, the various Netherland options are not as ahistorical as you are implying. Gelderland and Friesen were actually independent in 1492, so that option is pretty much ok. (Although the rest of the lowlands should perhaps be in Austrian control. However, we want the Dutch to fight the Spanish, not the Austrians.)

The "Austrian Netherlands" option is also historical, since the lowlands were actually under Austrian Habsburg dominion.

The last option; Austrian/Spanish lowlands, is designed to have the Dutch revolt against the Austrians, then fight the Spanish for control of the rest of their domain.

Obviously there are more ways to combine these options, but I really don't think we need all the possible permutations.
 
I am very pleased and grateful for

the work involved to give us these different altrenatives Doomie. So, despite my chracterizing them as ahistorical, I mean that in a very precise manner, not in any way critical of the IGC.

So actually I am just seeking some responses from folks as to what they like best among the setups available. What setup do you use Doomie? And if Hartmann is around, I'd be curious about his choice, and anyone else who would like to respond.

Bib goes so far as to edit the saved game file in 1519... a bit radical for me in that I don't feel that strongly about it. Is it possible though to allocate the provinces mid game without editing the saved game file? Could a trigger be written or is that "verboten" bc of hard coding or whatever? If it were possible to get such a scenario where ownership reflected historical lines (and switched) that would be the ideal solution.
 
I've been using option B, Austrian Netherlands. This is my first IGC (I've played GC's before) and I am loving it so far. Spain is not running away with the VP's (yes I still like to see the VP's). Since I didn't play earlier versions of the IGC I'm not sure if this play balance was already altered but I certainly do appreciate it.

Once I try this one, I think I may go start another with the split Austrian/Spanish, i.e. option c.

BTW, think this is post number 50 so I just earned a promotion.
 
The issue seems to me to be more one of timing then anything else. Given the fact that EU simply can't model the dynastic events necessary to start the Lowlands as Austrian Habsburg and then give them to Spanish Habsburg and then have Holland rebel against Spain, we have accept some sort of compromise.

Starting with the Lowlands in Austrian hands is historically correct for less than the first third of the game; after that, the absence of Spain in the area is ahistorical. So, to me, that's a big strike against that option.

Starting the Lowlands as Spainish makes sense for the later two-thirds of the game, but weakens Austria considerably at the start, to the point that she's the most minor of majors. A big strike against that approach.

So, I tend to prefer the compromise of a divided Austrian/Spanish Lowlands. Gives Austria a boost in the beginning, but puts Spain in the neighborhood when Holland revolts. Holland revolts against Austria, not Spain, but I can live with that. I've changed the name of Austria to "Habsburgs" since I've always thought of them as being the "real" Habsburgs anyway.

Haven't tried the newest, free Holland option. It seems the least desirable to me because it does nothing to help Austria but takes Holland out as a revolter.
 
I overlooked this thread and have already answered here:

http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=83234#post83234

In fact I designed all that Lowland options so everyone could pick the one suiting his own philosophy best. :)
The "free Geldern&Friesen" option will be combinable to the Austrian Lowlands option in future versions (instead of to the All Spanish Lowlands version). The "reverted" compromise option (Austrian Belgium and Spanish Netherlands) never seemed very appealing to me. Whereas Austria indeed got to Belgium again after Spain had to leave the area, this was *much* later.

In future versions we will have another option, which will be labelled "ahistorical": Free Burgundy! In this option we assume, that Karl the Bold didn´t die in the decisive battle against Lorraine/Swiss and so Burgundy wasn´t inherited by Maximilian in 1477 but instead still around in 1492. This is "alternate" history, but far from implausible as Burgundy under Karl the Bold was very mighty and even rivalled France. :)

Hartmann
 
Which is quite nice but how did u go about it ?

I had a go and got stuck on the fact that there actually wasn't a Burgundy so no leaders and so on.

I used the Holland tag for it (to stop the revolt) and gave them as leaders starting with Filips the Beatiful over Karl V (if they can treat him like 2 persons for Spain and Austria might as well add a third) and then over to Willem of Oranje.

It'd also be fair to assume (seeing we're up that path anyway) that Charles would have held on to Lorraine and btw he had conquered also Gelre (both broke free at his death). Oh and Liege but that isn't in EU anyway. They also should get Bourgogne evidently.
 
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I know that if Karl the Bold hadn´t died, he would have united the the Northern and Southern part of Burgundy. But on the other hand, implementing Burgundy with this already done would be quite lame and so I decided to leave Lorraine alone (this is also much easier for the IGCConfig ;)). This way the Burgundy player will face the same task as Karl the Bold, which should be really interesting. The monarchs will be another problem. I think we will have to resort to implementing some fictional monarchs.

Hartmann
 
And the Dutch revolt. Who's to say the Burgundians, realpoliticians as they were, would ever have acted like Felipe II ? Or eve nchange to reformed. The Dukes were far from all powerful in the Netherlands.

U'll need a lot of assumptions for this scenario :D

Not to mention they also owned Picardie and Calais (the EU province - England only controlled the town and its near surroundings)
 
And further hence...

no BiB - Laurent debate to enrich the thread :(
 
You IGC heavies

just FUBAR'ed the thread !!
 
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