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ShadowDragon868

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Jun 11, 2012
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I'm having rather a nasty problem. People kept whining about Stellar Energy being OP, and I got sick of it, and made it clear I wasn't going to tone it down.

So someone literally ripped off my mod, repackaged my files with my comments still in them, aped my logo, and slapped it up on the Steam workshop. I would've been happy to throw the guy some pointers, but that goes beyond reverse-engineering my mod into taking the piss and straight-up ripping off my work for purposes I do not want it to be used for.

I know that Paradox were able to drop the hammer on that "whites only" mod they found offensive, I was hoping they could help me do the same to this ripoff artist.
 
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Here's the mod in quesiton: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=707774666

Looks to me like he clearly credited your mod and notes that his is just yours toned down a bit. I'd say that's fair credit, personally. Plagiarists and rip-off artists rarely include a direct link and half a dozen direct references to the thing they're attempting to pass off as their own. Frankly, you should be flattered; you have a modmod. Someone liked your idea enough to fork it.
 
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Sorry to say but . . . "my mod was ripped off" is I suspect quite impossible. You do not OWN your mod.

Yes, it is a good form of etiquette to ask for permission and/or give credit (I personally would never think of adapting someone else's mod without doing both). But from a legal, and even an ethical standpoint, you have no rights to the material, it is impossible because you do not own the IP for which that material is meant to interface.

Again, yes, it is good etiquette to ask and give credit, but there is no basis really to complain/contact Paradox/etc. and not much point in getting the least bit flustered about it. When you make a mod you are automatically "giving away" your work, whether you like that premise or not is irrelevant, it is the legal fact.

Consider it a form of praise!

ADDIT: and it is also worth adding: this reality of "mods are automatically open-source" which is the norm in game development communities, is a "good thing" for all of us, even when someone copy-pastes your stuff and attempts to pass it off as their own composition. It is good because, without this sort of pervading "non-ownership" status, modding would quickly become impossible.
 
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At least he is crediting your work, he just wanted a version of your mod that fit his needs better, and like you said you didn't want to make that version yourself.
 
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I tried to contact you about a version that would suit my (and a lot of peoples) needs, but you simply removed my comment. I thought this mod was a great idea, and so I edited to be better inline with Stellaris base game. I gave you credit, and I have not reused your image. I made that from scratch, based on a NASA photo of our sun.

You should have made a more inline version, but instead you became rude. These mods are open source, and so I am legally allowed to do what I did. Even gave you credit, though you don't deserve it. I had to go through and fix some of your code, fyi.


Edit: Here's a screen shot of OP's mod's description for reference:

Hg3zl4Z.png
Hg3zl4Z.png
 
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You do not OWN your mod.

Yes, it is a good form of etiquette to ask for permission and/or give credit (I personally would never think of adapting someone else's mod without doing both). But from a legal, and even an ethical standpoint, you have no rights to the material, it is impossible because you do not own the IP for which that material is meant to interface.

Again, yes, it is good etiquette to ask and give credit, but there is no basis really to complain/contact Paradox/etc. and not much point in getting the least bit flustered about it. When you make a mod you are automatically "giving away" your work, whether you like that premise or not is irrelevant, it is the legal fact.
.

This is not true when it comes to any form of artwork though such as 3d Models etc.
 
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This is not true when it comes to any form of artwork though such as 3d Models etc.

If you make a 3d model as part of a mod for someone else's game, then you do not own it. In fact, I would go so far as to think that, if you make a 3d model using Paradox's utilities or any of Paradox's code base as the foundation, then you do not own it.

Paradox owns ALL OF THIS, including the words we are writing right now! :D

If you are not an IP attorney, then I'm sticking to this conception: anything you do for someone else's game you do not own. Indeed, if one is not careful about how one releases ANY intellectual property of any kind, whether it is entirely unrelated to any other IP or not, one is at risk of operating under the false impression that they 'don't need to worry' when in fact they may very well need to worry.

Different story if you are, for example, using a proprietary engine under some sort of license. In that case, yes, you do own it, and the engine maker has no rightful claim to it (as long as you are in some way licensed to be using their engine/tools).
 
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If you make a 3d model as part of a mod for someone else's game, then you do not own it. In fact, I would go so far as to think that, if you make a 3d model using Paradox's utilities or any of Paradox's code base as the foundation, then you do not own it.

Actually copyright retains with the original author even its you do no own the IP, i know someone that had to deal with this :) involving a comic that was using his 3d model and rendition of somthing and the comic even though they owned the IP had to remove it.
 
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If you make a 3d model as part of a mod for someone else's game, then you do not own it. In fact, I would go so far as to think that, if you make a 3d model using Paradox's utilities or any of Paradox's code base as the foundation, then you do not own it.
That would get really awkward if someone were to apply the same model across multiple games. Then suddenly multiple companies can claim ownership of said asset.
Possibly a reason why ownership is still retained by the original creator for assets.

Coding and syntax are a different story since that's a genuine product from Paradox itself.
 
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Actually copyright retains with the original author even its you do no own the IP, i know someone that had to deal with this :) involving a comic that was using his 3d model and rendition of somthing and the comic even though they owned the IP had to remove it.

That sounds possible, but it doesn't mean that "if a person made something it automatically makes it theirs." You'd have to clarify how the publisher of the comic had acquired the 3d model in question. If it was obtained inappropriately then yes, they would have been stealing the persons property. Even something as questionable as: the person having been a contractor who produced the model under the terms of a contract, which had at some point been breached by the publisher, could be a sufficient basis for the artist to press for the publisher to remove the asset from their IP (depending on the specifics of the arrangement).

This can never apply to things made as part of a "modification" to a game (unless it is specifically written that way in the EULA, a specification of which I have never heard). Publishers of games that are open to modding are essentially allowing users to make content for their game. It would be extremely problematic for them to specify that each content maker is the owner of their content, or to specifically allow this, because this would in turn give them absolutely no oversight over said content, and it could put their own IP at jeopardy.

Lets take Minecraft as an example, and say that I make a bunch of cute little models for that game. They turn out to be very popular, so I decide to make T-shirts (or comics, or coffee mugs, whatever) and sell those products. Microsoft sees this happening but because they wrote the EULA the way you think it operates, they are powerless to stop me from making a profit off of their game. It get's worse from there: Sony sees that I'm very popular with my "cute Minecraft Bunnies" thing on Youtube, so they offer me a $10,00,000 contract to produce 3 seasons of an animated cartoon series with the bunnies. Now we've got two firms whose intellectual property is overlapping and at some point the lawsuits are going to start flying. This is not the way it works: firms that sell games, to my knowledge, never give ownership to creators of "modification" content for their IPs and in fact always specify that they have sole and final oversight over said content. This could go so far as to mean, they can commandeer your creation and sell it, but as far as I know that has yet to be contested in court, though it has been "discussed" by some publishers.

That would get really awkward if someone were to apply the same model across multiple games. Then suddenly multiple companies can claim ownership of said asset.
Possibly a reason why ownership is still retained by the original creator for assets.

Coding and syntax are a different story since that's a genuine product from Paradox itself.

"Coding and syntax" is a bit obscure there . . . C++ has syntax, so does Java, Python, etc., etc. The fact that it has "syntax" does not mean that I own Bjorne Stroutroup royalties if I make a game engine that uses C++ or that I owe Sun royalties if I make a mobile app that uses Java. This area can be contentious, it is true and some "language publishers" retain copyright over their language, SAS for example sued some folks in Europe some years ago who were using their language to write their own software. SAS is not something one "writes applications" in though and it is the only one I'm aware of that functions that way; it is essentially a command language for running a combined RDMS-statistical analysis and graphical application. Companies pay big bucks to get licenses for the package. Most programming languages are not copyright as far as I know.

However, a "package" of functioning programming language can be proprietary, and as long as the creator of it is careful about how they release it (e.g., if you put all your stuff up on Github where anyone has access to it, then years down the line try to sue somebody cause they made money off of code you wrote, you probably have a serious up hill battle in court). This is why you'll notice that source code for functioning software that is not open-source is very, very rarely released; it is essentially the secret recipe and by keeping it private, a publisher places themselves into the "de facto" sole possession of the IP which will give them the greater leverage in court, should it ever be contested.

The moral of this story is quite simple: if you truly want to have "ownership" of any piece of intellectual property than you make, then (a) do NOT base it on the work of anyone else, particularly a firm that sells products that are based on their own IP(s); (b) do NOT share it with ANYONE (not even your mother!) if they have not signed an NDA and/or other agreements specifying that you are the sole owner of the material in question; (c) when and if you do release, make sure you've consulted with an intellectual property attorney first.

Because, at the end of the day, a skillful hacker can get hold of anyone's source code (much less assets that are not compiled into machine code in their final distributed form like graphics or scripts), and you do not want to be in an ambiguous situation where you cannot demonstrate that it was your's to begin with.

That happened to the guy on whose game Perrson . . . "based" . . . Minecraft.
 
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I tried to contact you about a version that would suit my (and a lot of peoples) needs, but you simply removed my comment. I thought this mod was a great idea, and so I edited to be better inline with Stellaris base game. I gave you credit, and I have not reused your image. I made that from scratch, based on a NASA photo of our sun.

You should have made a more inline version, but instead you became rude. These mods are open source, and so I am legally allowed to do what I did. Even gave you credit, though you don't deserve it. I had to go through and fix some of your code, fyi.


Edit: Here's a screen shot of OP's mod's description for reference:

Hg3zl4Z.png
Hg3zl4Z.png

You did not try to contact me that I am aware of, other than that "Hey everybody, you like this mod? Use mine, it's bettar!" comment on my mod.

You also straight-up ripped off my code. My comments are still in the bloody files! Reverse-engineering my mod to make your own is one thing, straight-up ripping off my mod files and distributing them in altered form without my consent is taking the piss!

And
I didn't say you ripped-off my title image, you aped it to clearly imply a connection. Not cool.
 
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You did not try to contact me that I am aware of, other than that "Hey everybody, you like this mod? Use mine, it's bettar!" comment on my mod.

You also straight-up ripped off my code. My comments are still in the bloody files! Reverse-engineering my mod to make your own is one thing, straight-up ripping off my mod files and distributing them in altered form without my consent is taking the piss!

And
I didn't say you ripped-off my title image, you aped it to clearly imply a connection. Not cool.
I did try to ask you for a toned down version, but you simply deleted my comment. I then read in your description where you said to make your own. So I did. You seem to be really butthurt on how Stellaris is balanced and refuse to listen to your peeps. That's fine, but I stepped in to help them, and myself, out.

Ofcourse I'm not going to remove your comments. That would be trying to hide where I got the code from. I'm obviously giving you credit for the whole thing, but I did balance some of the numbers, the entries AND fixed some of the weights you had in the code. I did note the gas giants gravitate towards 4, but I disagree with this sentiment. I changed enough to be happy that I can claim it as a rework.

People agree with my decision, too, as they are subscribing pretty quickly. I'm not trying to step on your toes, but you've been pretty rude about the whole thing.
 
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I said make your own, not rip off mine and repackage it.

I just ran a text diff. The only things you've changed in the first file are literally the numbers and you deleted the pegging park of Class A stars. Mine is on the left, yours is on the right. For crying out loud, the name of the bloody keys is still "sd_solar_energy_<whatever>". Even the bloody filenames are the same, down to including the part where I split it all from Stellar Energy into Stellar Energy and Saturnine Energy because I was worried the file was getting too big!

What do you think the SD stands for? It stands for "ShadowDragon." IE, me.

You didn't make your own mod. You ripped off mine, repackaged it, and gave it a name clearly intended to create a connection; a connection which you never consulted me on, nor which you never received permission for.
 

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I've said my piece. I have no intention of disrespecting anyone, but merely saw a chance to balance something I thought was really cool. Then I notice a lot of other people agreed, and so made the mod public after I made it.

Take care.
 
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This thread would be funny if almost the exact same sort of thing didn't actually play out in court, to the tune of millions of dollars of legal fees, and potentially billions in damages

Google Beats Oracle in Long-Running Java Lawsuit

If you give something away, without requiring people to at least click "I Accept" to a some sort of terms of service/EULA/user agreement, and in particular if you are not expecting remuneration in exchange (and in fact are legally bound to NOT receive remuneration) then what you just did is "publish open-source" intellectual property.

You gave it away, a contribution that can go a LONG way toward benefiting you, the contributor, in myriad ways, even when it doesn't lead directly to praise or remuneration. But when you turn around and act petulant and greedy and try to proclaim ownership for the thing you gave away, you look exactly like Oracle looked when they lost that suit: you look like a schmuck.
 
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Mods put on the Steam Workshop, as everyone else here has said, are pretty much open-source. That's the reality of the situation. Unfortunately, Steam seems pretty ambiguous on the whole idea of someone stealing mods. I've seen situations where someone was re-uploading a mod without changing anything, and that was taken down by the creators of that game. I don't know where Paradox stands on this issue.

Honestly, if you had been a little less rude, perhaps even spent 30 minutes and changing some numbers for a lighter version of the mod, this whole thing could've been avoided. But actively censoring comments on your page, refusing to change anything when people request change, and being a little "pissy" about it as well? That's probably why this happened.

Besides. This didn't have to be taken to a public forum. You mentioned that you deleted his comment that said "hey everybody, use my mod it's better!" If this is the case, then why didn't you contact him after you saw the comment? This could've literally been resolved easily in private messaging, but you took it to a forum. Now it's evolved into just you and him arguing, and I'm not sure if that's allowed. Careful there.
 
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I did not "bring it" to a public forum. I asked publicly how to contact Paradox, because I genuinely did not know how or whom to contact with regards to the issue. Others "brought it" into here, including him.
 
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