• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

unmerged(255172)

Turbo Tape Games Dev
1 Badges
Jan 26, 2011
2.408
0
turbotapegames.com
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
Ok, we've collected a lot of resources on various aspects of naval warfare over the years, as I am sure you can imagine, but I can't find a good explanation of how to model how sonar affects detection near the seabed.

What's the best way to model the effect on detectability when the sub is near the seabed (the ocean is relatively shallow)? Conversely, how does this affect the sub's own active and passive sonar when it tries to detect surface targets? What if it is near an edge, where it gets deeper, or a steep, where it gets more shallow.

NWAC is not a sub sim per se, but these things should be modeled as accurately as possible (within reason).

Since this is such a knowledgeable forum, I'd like to have your feedback if possible.
 
I found some articles about sonar,hope these may help you.
IMG00007.GIF

IMG00014.GIF

IMG00015.GIF

IMG00021.GIF



http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/es310/SNR_PROP/snr_prop.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/es310/asw_sys/asw_sys.htm
 
In general, in shallow water (depths down to roughly 100m) sonar will be particularly affected by background noise (for active and passive sonar) and by reverberations (active only). Background noise is created by a range of organic and inorganic sources, ranging from the sea or seabed itself (ambient noise created by turbulence, effect of wind on the sea, etc), fish or other shipping or mechanical activity nearby, all covering a large range of frequencies. All this noise significantly reduces the effectiveness of passive sonar (the noise sources you want to detect are obliterated by the background noise) and active sonar (your sonar returns are similarly obliterated by the background noise). Reverberations occur on active sonar and represent the mass of unwanted echoes and backscattered sound from the seabed, particles suspended in water or the sea surface, and in shallow water the seabed clearly plays an increased role.

All this reduces the effectiveness of both active and passive sonar for surface ships and submarines in shallow water and so reduces the range at which you will detect objects. In terms of modelling, it is virtually impossible to do accurately as there is so much variability in the sources of this background noise in shallow water. The problem is some noise signatures are still audible despite all this background noise and that varies with classes and even individual ships, meaning they would be detected if the enemy had previously fingerprinted that ship and knew what they were looking for (and such information obviously wouldn't be publicly available so there is no way you'd know what ships were noisy and which weren't!). We haven't even got in to the effect of sound propagation in shallow water which asdjames touched on and which varies for different times of the day, different seasons and different geographic areas.

Basically, and not very helpfully I'm afraid, all this makes it really hard to get an accurate sonar model in the game for shallow water, so I'd suggest a general reduction in detection ranges on active and passive sonar for both ships and submarines in shallow water (roughly less than 100m depth). Although it isn't going to be a perfect model (which is effectively impossible to achieve), it will represent the difficulties of operating sonar in shallow water without giving an advantage to either ships or submarines for gameplay.

Edit: Oh and I'll ask some 'friends' about detection of subs near the continental shelf or other areas where it gets deeper/shallower suddenly and get back to you ;)
 
Last edited:
Thanks for your thorough answer, Boohugh. Greatly appreciated!

You are right we will obviously only be able to implement "table top" style very simplified rules, but we want them to be as good as possible. A total acoustic and fluid-dynamics simulation of the entire region is, well, a bit beyond the scope of our game :)