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If you could direct questions to the Questions about the Great War thread(http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97926), it keeps the sub-forum from getting cluttered. Thanks.
If you could direct questions to the Questions about the Great War thread(http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97926), it keeps the sub-forum from getting cluttered. Thanks.
I was going to raise a similar point myself, so niise saved me from the effort - the progress table is very much out of date and hasn't been updated for some time.
It's rather inaccurate by now, and so I am rather keen for it to be brought up to date. I posted in the 'Homepage' thread what I thought needed to be done, but Johan, it seems either didn't notice it, or didn't have the time.
Seeing as the standard response we give to people who want to contribute is 'check the progress part of the website', it's quite important that the progress table is itself updated - which it isn't.
I might have to spend some time slogging through the threads and produce an up to date table myself, so as to give an accurate portrayal of what we've got left to do.
I'd like the opinion of the team on what they see as the area that needs most work, and requires the greatest concentration of effort. My initial thoughts are that we need the tech tree done as soon as possible, as well as various aspects of the air war.
It's rather inaccurate by now, and so I am rather keen for it to be brought up to date. I posted in the 'Homepage' thread what I thought needed to be done, but Johan, it seems either didn't notice it, or didn't have the time.
Seeing as the standard response we give to people who want to contribute is 'check the progress part of the website', it's quite important that the progress table is itself updated - which it isn't.
I might have to spend some time slogging through the threads and produce an up to date table myself, so as to give an accurate portrayal of what we've got left to do.
I'd like the opinion of the team on what they see as the area that needs most work, and requires the greatest concentration of effort. My initial thoughts are that we need the tech tree done as soon as possible, as well as various aspects of the air war.
I concur that the tech tree needs to be done as soon as possible.
The way I would the update (perhaps on your FAQ page?) would be to break it up into something like this:
Graphics:
Map - 100% done (except for possible comsmetic changes or changes to be made after beta-testing.)
Sprites - list what is done and what needs to be done
Flags - 100%?
Entrance Screen - 100%
etc.
Leaders/Ministers:
British Empire: ?
German Empire: ?
etc.
OOB:
UK - ?
etc.
Core Events (events that get the war started and possible end of war events/scenarios)
Flavor Events: (Never really done, but a list of ones completed or ideas given would be nice.)
And so on.
What part of the air war still needs to be completed/discussed?
The way I would the update (perhaps on your FAQ page?) would be to break it up into something like this:
Graphics:
Map - 100% done (except for possible comsmetic changes or changes to be made after beta-testing.)
Sprites - list what is done and what needs to be done
Flags - 100%?
Entrance Screen - 100%
etc.
Leaders/Ministers:
British Empire: ?
German Empire: ?
etc.
OOB:
UK - ?
etc.
Core Events (events that get the war started and possible end of war events/scenarios)
Flavor Events: (Never really done, but a list of ones completed or ideas given would be nice.)
And so on.
What part of the air war still needs to be completed/discussed?
The technological aspects of the air war have been thrashed out, but they aren't totally confirmed, and what effects each technological advance makes hasn't been specified yet. Stephen has come up with the most comprehensive aircraft technology tree, so it would probably be wise to let him take the lead on it.
We still need aircraft models, orders of battle (as simple as they might be in 1914), and air leaders. Come to think of it, models haven't been produced for all tanks yet either...
I agree to your progress page suggestions, and I shall create mine along the guidelines you've suggested, perhaps with a few adjustments. Certainly a list of all of our events will be most useful.
How comprehensive is the work on manpower, resources and IC? Manpower in itself seems to have been pretty well covered.
We still need aircraft models, orders of battle (as simple as they might be in 1914), and air leaders. Come to think of it, models haven't been produced for all tanks yet either...
I agree to your progress page suggestions, and I shall create mine along the guidelines you've suggested, perhaps with a few adjustments. Certainly a list of all of our events will be most useful.
How comprehensive is the work on manpower, resources and IC? Manpower in itself seems to have been pretty well covered.
I think we can categorise the tasks into two types: overall (the countries, the map, the tech trees, the models, the crucial events, graphics) and per-country.
Overall tasks
Countries: All done, although there's still some tweaking to be done (national and claimed provinces, whether Finland should actually exist in 1914, etc)
Map: Done. However, there was talk about altering population and IC levels, and victory point provinces, and I don't know if anything's actually been done on this.
Tech trees: About 60% done, I think - Johan would have the best information as I believe he was looking after this area. However, I don't think we have any flavour text written up, just the tech names.
Models: I know various things have been posted on this, even back in the original megathread (eg DrBolo's work) but I don't know if anything's been finalised or coded.
Crucial events: We have the July Crisis, the US entry sequence, and about half the Russian Revolution in place. I'd say we also need Italian war entry as a minimum, and perhaps the peace treaty events. Everything else would be "flavour".
Graphics: We've done most of the title and loading screens, alliance graphics, victory point screens, etc.
Per-country requirements
I think this would be simplest shown as a table, with country names down the side and categories along the top. For each country, we need:
Flag: - I understand we have all of these (except perhaps for Makhnovschina (a plain black flag?) and Ulster (white, red cross, red hand)). However, I don't know if they've been collected into one place yet.
Description: There are about a dozen of these completed, I believe.
AI-file: I think Johan did a couple of these, but most are still not done.
Ministers: I believe we have most of these now, at least for the major powers.
Leaders:I'm not sure how far advanced we are with these - a lot was posted early on.
Orders of Battle: Land, Sea and Air. I think we have all the information, but I don't know if the naval and air OOBs have actually been coded. (I posted some info on air OOBs in 1914 a while ago, in the relevant thread). However, there are some anomalies to sort out, like Britain getting its full Kitchener New Army in January 1914.
Supplies, convoys and resource pools: These still need to be set up for each country
Overall tasks
Countries: All done, although there's still some tweaking to be done (national and claimed provinces, whether Finland should actually exist in 1914, etc)
Map: Done. However, there was talk about altering population and IC levels, and victory point provinces, and I don't know if anything's actually been done on this.
Tech trees: About 60% done, I think - Johan would have the best information as I believe he was looking after this area. However, I don't think we have any flavour text written up, just the tech names.
Models: I know various things have been posted on this, even back in the original megathread (eg DrBolo's work) but I don't know if anything's been finalised or coded.
Crucial events: We have the July Crisis, the US entry sequence, and about half the Russian Revolution in place. I'd say we also need Italian war entry as a minimum, and perhaps the peace treaty events. Everything else would be "flavour".
Graphics: We've done most of the title and loading screens, alliance graphics, victory point screens, etc.
Per-country requirements
I think this would be simplest shown as a table, with country names down the side and categories along the top. For each country, we need:
Flag: - I understand we have all of these (except perhaps for Makhnovschina (a plain black flag?) and Ulster (white, red cross, red hand)). However, I don't know if they've been collected into one place yet.
Description: There are about a dozen of these completed, I believe.
AI-file: I think Johan did a couple of these, but most are still not done.
Ministers: I believe we have most of these now, at least for the major powers.
Leaders:I'm not sure how far advanced we are with these - a lot was posted early on.
Orders of Battle: Land, Sea and Air. I think we have all the information, but I don't know if the naval and air OOBs have actually been coded. (I posted some info on air OOBs in 1914 a while ago, in the relevant thread). However, there are some anomalies to sort out, like Britain getting its full Kitchener New Army in January 1914.
Supplies, convoys and resource pools: These still need to be set up for each country
The Manpower should be done (see the Manpower thread), although I don't know if Johan had coded it yet. But it is broken down into what province gets what.
As for IC and resources...well their have been two suggestions on this so far. The first being to just cut the numbers by a third or in some places by more (such as if the resources were unknown until after 1924). The second was just leave as is.
I'll see what I can come up with, but what should be base the IC off? For that matter what did Paradox base IC off, GDP?
Resources might be a bit harder, but well I shall try.
StephenT, what I would recommend for convoys is that all places should start in supply, with convoys full (i.e. At just the right level so as to be in supply but no more.).
Taking the original figures and cutting them to the necessary levels sounds wise and sensible for both ICs and resources.
The suggestion for convoys seems reasonable too, although it might be realistic to give the British Empire a good number of spare convoys to simulate their rather large Merchant fleet.
The suggestion for convoys seems reasonable too, although it might be realistic to give the British Empire a good number of spare convoys to simulate their rather large Merchant fleet.
I understand people have found it to relate to GDP. There is a thread, by Mithel, I think, called "Value of an IC", or something similar, where it was said one IC was one billion 1990 US$ of 1938 GDP.
Hope you understand that sentence..
Yeah, that's what I did with the Manpower...just compared the vanilla HOI numbers to what the Manpower I had calculated. If it was more then I increased only provinces that already had Manpower as a 'resource', if less the same. Although in some instances, like China, I gave some provinces that had none an increase because they were getting an obscene amount of Manpower.
I concur, give everyone a small Merchant Marine, and places like the UK, US, and anyone else with a large merchant fleet more. (Denmark and Norway had sizeable merchant fleets no?)
Had a thought on starting resources, especially 'supplies'. All the major powers thought they had a sufficient stockpile of ammunition and other supplies but soon found that their new fangled aritllery ate up shells faster than an obese man chows downs a Big-Mac. Others like the US had enough ammunition to fire all their artillery for about 7 minutes...
So I would say give the European powers 2000-3000 supplies and then countries like the US perhaps 500. Everyone else would get 100-200. (With non-direct-land territories have some supplies already there (50?).)
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Hmm....I think I understand. Anyone have the inflation rate for the $US in 1914 to say 2000?
For the sake of simplicity, I'd be inclined to leave the IC levels as they are now, at least for version 1.0 of the mod. It's the relative strength of the countries that matters most, not their stength in relation to 1936.
One possible exception could be Russia, since that country increased its industrialisation dramatically during the 1930s relative to all other powers - we might need to trim their ICs. Also, if we increase China's manpower dramatically we'll need to make sure her ICs are reduced in line.
As for supplies, the logical thing to do would be to find each country's initial production value, and give them a set percentage of this. Do the same with resource pools - find their starting ICs and give them a multiple of this, rounded to the nearest 100. We'll also need to make sure that overseas garrisons have a supply dump in their province and/or a convoy set up to that location.
As far as I can see, the easiest way to create convoys in the country files is going to be to start a game as that country, set up all your convoys, save the game, then edit the save file and copy the convoy data into the country file. I've not actually tried this yet, but it should work...
One possible exception could be Russia, since that country increased its industrialisation dramatically during the 1930s relative to all other powers - we might need to trim their ICs. Also, if we increase China's manpower dramatically we'll need to make sure her ICs are reduced in line.
As for supplies, the logical thing to do would be to find each country's initial production value, and give them a set percentage of this. Do the same with resource pools - find their starting ICs and give them a multiple of this, rounded to the nearest 100. We'll also need to make sure that overseas garrisons have a supply dump in their province and/or a convoy set up to that location.
As far as I can see, the easiest way to create convoys in the country files is going to be to start a game as that country, set up all your convoys, save the game, then edit the save file and copy the convoy data into the country file. I've not actually tried this yet, but it should work...
Sounds reasonable, shdwknightx, I'll leave you to decide the figures for each country. Post what you come up with and we'll have a look at 'em.
The new progress page has been created:http://www.angelfire.com/ar3/dsw6000/progress.html
It links to the FAQ, so I advise that browsers are directed to that page when they ask what they can do.
It's probably best to look through it briefly to see if I've made any mistakes - it's a tiring and dull page though
The new progress page has been created:http://www.angelfire.com/ar3/dsw6000/progress.html
It links to the FAQ, so I advise that browsers are directed to that page when they ask what they can do.
It's probably best to look through it briefly to see if I've made any mistakes - it's a tiring and dull page though
Nicely done, and seems clear too.
Under the British events, there's also the Sinai Pipeline event (although I recall you wanted it renamed "Sinai Railway"), and there's a similar event for Turkey to be written.
You've got "Byelorussian independence" twice under Russian events. One of them should be "Ukrainian". I don't know if it's worth adding (in brackets) that the "Revolution" event is the February Revolution?
Under the British events, there's also the Sinai Pipeline event (although I recall you wanted it renamed "Sinai Railway"), and there's a similar event for Turkey to be written.
You've got "Byelorussian independence" twice under Russian events. One of them should be "Ukrainian". I don't know if it's worth adding (in brackets) that the "Revolution" event is the February Revolution?
Regarding air forces, the only countries that had one in 1914 were Austria-Hungary, Belgium, British Empire, France, Germany, Italy, Russia and the USA. (I'm not counting countries with fewer than 25 aircraft). So any country not listed here, you can mark their Air OOB as "done".
Before we can code these units, we'll need to finalise the aircraft models.
See here for my original post on the subject.
Before we can code these units, we'll need to finalise the aircraft models.
See here for my original post on the subject.
It's 25 aircraft/unit, then? Or did you choose a 25 planes watershed for some other reasons?
Also, what are "names"? is it unitnames.csv?
Also, what are "names"? is it unitnames.csv?
Originally posted by Allenby
Sounds reasonable, shdwknightx, I'll leave you to decide the figures for each country. Post what you come up with and we'll have a look at 'em.
The new progress page has been created:http://www.angelfire.com/ar3/dsw6000/progress.html
It links to the FAQ, so I advise that browsers are directed to that page when they ask what they can do.
It's probably best to look through it briefly to see if I've made any mistakes - it's a tiring and dull page though
Okay, I look into as soon as possible. If nothing else we can do what StephenT suggested. But cutting Russia by say half, or is that too much? And China by a bit to, they always had the excess manpower but not enough inudstrial/agriculture to support vast numbers so they should also be drastically reduced.
I added your progress page link to the Forum and Thread links, so it shall be easy for people to find.
Why we are on the topic of what needs to be done, has those annoying territorial claims that China and Russia have been limited yet? Territorial claims might also be a good thing to list under the country in the what's done.
On the subject of resources I am inclined to leave the same, with some exceptions. Cut oil production worldwide by a significant percentage, say by a third to half.
Gwalchmai - I assume 100 aircraft per unit, the same as standard HoI. So a country with 150 aircraft in 1914 would get one full-strength unit and one at half strength. (Obviously this is an abstraction).
When the same question came up regarding land forces - lots of countries had small numbers of troops scattered all over the world, which might account for, say, 1/3 of a division per province - it was agreed to set the cut-off point at 0.25 of a unit. I'm proposing we use the same principle here.
After all, giving, say, Guatemala an air unit with a strength of 0.01 to represent the one aircraft in their air force seems a little ludicrous. Especially since the AI would probably build the unit up to full 100-aircraft strength as its first action.
I don't know if Allenby meant unitnames.csv, but that will certainly need updating.
When the same question came up regarding land forces - lots of countries had small numbers of troops scattered all over the world, which might account for, say, 1/3 of a division per province - it was agreed to set the cut-off point at 0.25 of a unit. I'm proposing we use the same principle here.
After all, giving, say, Guatemala an air unit with a strength of 0.01 to represent the one aircraft in their air force seems a little ludicrous. Especially since the AI would probably build the unit up to full 100-aircraft strength as its first action.
I don't know if Allenby meant unitnames.csv, but that will certainly need updating.