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How to build units for your Allies?

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Majorball

Majorball

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Ever wondered how the Aussies can get Lancasters? Good fighters?

Dont build them yourself...By production runs off your Allies.
Say for example the UK has 50 IC a day allocated to supplies.
If the Aussies wanted good fighters and bombers built quickly with good docs.
They enquire to their Ally(UK)the cost and time it takes to produce.
So in 1938 the Aussies ask the UK and a fighter might cost 10IC.
The Aussies then give the UK 10 IC worth of supplies a day.
By doing this the UK can drop his required supplies down 10 IC to 40IC a day.
Then the UK starts a serial run of fighters.
Once built they are then sent as expeditionary forces to their Ally.

The advantgaes of this are many:

Australia gets good quality fighters, in a shorter time,less cost and with good docs.

It costs the UK nothing as the Aussies are effectively buying these units by giving the supplies to the UK which in turn frees up UK IC in supply production.

Australia can ask its ally to make a serial run of 8 fighters getting the full benfeits.

The planes under exp control actually act like your own planes and receive repalcements from the controlling nation.

This could also be done for high cost armour, ships, planes and CV. Why would the Aussies bother building a CV. Better to pay the UK or USA in 1941 when they have all the production techs and can build them in a year. The Aussies can just give the USA the IC worth in supplies to build a fleet for them.


Anyone else see the benefeit of this in Multi player?

German and Italian cooperation?
 
Whoever is supplying them...ie if they are in Australian territory the Aussies will. Its a good method for allowing smaller countries to build those things that they normally dont have the industrial techs for to reduce production time.
 
interesting. i think most uk players would exped things to australia just so they would not have to keep their eye on the whole planet. in MP games uk has to be aware of so much territory the advantage of having an australia player is the advantage of having someone else who can keep an eye on some part of the world for uk. australian player may get bored pumping all ic into supplies just so he can buy something from usa in 41.
 
He doesnt have to just pump into supplies....instead of using his own production he sends supplies when he wants a particular unit. These supplies would be the IC the other player would use to build his units anyway. Just he gets better units, cheaper and faster. He would still build his own infantry etc
Could be important if you want to purchase some strategic bombers. As a minor it may take 190 days...20 IC. If UK builds them for you you can reduce this to 90 days and 14 IC. All the minor player would have to do would be to give the Major power 14IC worth of supplies..the major than reduces his IC in supplies to pay for the units. The major power doesnt care as he is getting same suppleis as before but he has spare IC to build these units for the minor power.
 
Very Tricky

major ball said:
He doesnt have to just pump into supplies....instead of using his own production he sends supplies when he wants a particular unit. These supplies would be the IC the other player would use to build his units anyway. Just he gets better units, cheaper and faster. He would still build his own infantry etc
Could be important if you want to purchase some strategic bombers. As a minor it may take 190 days...20 IC. If UK builds them for you you can reduce this to 90 days and 14 IC. All the minor player would have to do would be to give the Major power 14IC worth of supplies..the major than reduces his IC in supplies to pay for the units. The major power doesnt care as he is getting same suppleis as before but he has spare IC to build these units for the minor power.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm -- nice concept -- I really like it -- it is truly a corker!!

For the other Forum Members:::: In our current Aussie MP game, I have been "lend leased" a lovely naval unit from the US - a fleet the size (and power) of which AST could never hope to have.
Additionally, in MP games, it is so easy for the minor players to 'go to sleep' because of their inability to effectively influence gameplay... it is severely limited (naturally) because of their limited resources, IC and manpower.

:D :D

Cheers
 
There should be no need to buy units off the Brits and the Yanks. The Brits if they can, and certainly the Yanks who should have forces to spare, should donate as much as they can as expeds to the other minor Allied players for free. This will take some of the workload off the Major Allieid players and increase the involvement of the Minor players as the war gets more complex as it developes all over the planet.

_________________

ps. If players lose these expeds rather cheaply they can expect a hard time procuring more expeds from me :)

_________________
 
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yeah thats what i said. don't be too cheap as uk. paradox folk have been very unfair to the CW countries in terms of resources. aust and canada need the pity and charity of their mighty paternal english overlords to protect them and send them resources and naval units.
 
Minors are not so weak, you just have to realise you are not a world power and play as such. Spealise in just a few areas and build your forces to match. In time when the UK and US buildup they can provide more forces if they wish but it should be no gurantee as everyone likes to play there own way with there own nation.

Majors concept is interesting, large scale use is not much good due to manpower issues. But building specialised units that smaller nations often find to expenisve or do not have the tech them selves could be well worth doing. It would also reflect history and current military spending. Australia for instance dose not build its own Fighters/Bombers as we lack the funds to reasearch such weapons, we just buy them and get who we buy them from to train our people in how to use them. We do build other things mainly our own ships. This can be done in the game buy spealised units from your major allie if you want to and build up other units such as infantry yourself.

Also there may be units that your major allie does not want to build that maybe you as a minor allie can spealise in and provide that service to your major allie and the rest of your allies if you want to. So its give and take and requires good co-operation between your team.
 
Why smaller nations have Problems

mike8472 said:
Minors are not so weak, you just have to realise you are not a world power and play as such. Spealise in just a few areas and build your forces to match. In time when the UK and US buildup they can provide more forces if they wish but it should be no gurantee as everyone likes to play there own way with there own nation. .
Click to expand...

True -- but don't forget the "boring" and "go to sleep" factors. I think that BB expressed this frustration in a most succinct way in our recent games. Better to have major allies send some units to minor allies, than have the minor ally "asleep at the wheel" and afk watching Big Brother or Desperate Housewives.....



mike8472 said:
Majors concept is interesting, large scale use is not much good due to manpower issues. But building specialised units that smaller nations often find to expenisve or do not have the tech them selves could be well worth doing. It would also reflect history and current military spending.
Australia for instance dose not build its own Fighters/Bombers as we lack the funds to reasearch such weapons, we just buy them and get who we buy them from to train our people in how to use them. We do build other things mainly our own ships. .
Click to expand...

Yes -- and if details in recent newspaper articles are anything close to accurate, AST plans to build our own submarine fleet have ended up as what can only be described as a disaster.

Read here:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200507/s1426223.htm



mike8472 said:
Also there may be units that your major allie does not want to build that maybe you as a minor allie can spealise in and provide that service to your major allie and the rest of your allies if you want to. So its give and take and requires good co-operation between your team.
Click to expand...

This is the crux -- teamwork -- without it, cohesion and cooperation are degraded and/or lost.

Cheers
 
I'm not certain that the controlling nation does indeed supply the reinforcements. In the last game whenever my spanish soldiers were in battle on the eastern front it was me not Germany who was paying for reinforcments. I know this for certain as Mike told me that he was on 0 reinforcments and I had 4 IC invested and only my troops recovered and no german divs. other then that its a good idea.
 
BB -- I was referring to the actual unit builds -- it is a great idea for the Major ally to actually build the manpower hungry unit for you and then transfer/give it to by Expeditionary Forces method -- reinforcement is a different issue altogether.

And... by the way...do you have any comments on the "I-am-getting-bored and falling-to-sleep-factor when units are not handed over to the minor allies????
 
Well i disagree with BB comments on Expeditionary forces and replacements. Me and Gezeder tested this in our Tuesday game with the German divisions i sent to Turkey. When i set the divisions as proritise the manpower came from Germany, when it clicked them as proritise the manpower came from italy. So it does work
 
mike8472 said:
Well i disagree with BB comments on Expeditionary forces and replacements. Me and Gezeder tested this in our Tuesday game with the German divisions i sent to Turkey. When i set the divisions as proritise the manpower came from Germany, when it clicked them as proritise the manpower came from italy. So it does work
Click to expand...

Well can you explain why I was paying for reinforcments for those spanish divs in Russia?
 
I think it might be a bug involving priritse, or supply issues, or something, there was a few factors involved.

I do know that in our last session I spent about 30 more manpower than I should have, after a major battle including 50% German expeditionary troops....

Gezeder
 
One question though, who has to supply the leader? el Duce isn't getting Rommel for Africa THIS time! :) Otherwise, this is a solid idea. The UK could even talk to the Aussie player and give them military control as long as rules were imposed as to what territories were Austrailias responsibility and that he could only use those troops stationed there. You'd have to really trust that other player not to screw ya though! Hell, if the UK really had too much going on, he could even break off a few provinces over in the Pacific and give them to Austrailia, boosting their ability to wage war while lowering his work load.

Joshua
 
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Nolan said:
Re Exped replacements.

I looked in the manual. Page 50 bottom left corner says...The new national controller will then assume all responsibilities for issuing it orders and replenishing its losses.
Click to expand...

And we all know how well the manual translates to actual fact...

Its a rough guideline of some of the features that may or may not have been included in the final product. Useful bedtime reading or while you're at work when you're just getting a handle for the game.

Major,

I do find this idea of yours interesting. The thought of final control over production of IC-heavy units devolving totally to the alliance leader makes me nervous over a High Command style of play, but it has promise.
 
Only some units..It would mainly affect tanks and planes. The purchaser could buy into an existing serial run 4 or 5 units old for cheaper units again. When they are produced the builder waits for a group of 4 planes or 3 tanks and then EXP them. There is no cheaper way for a country like Italy to aquire decent tanks with good docs in multi player or payed for by Italy. There are limitataions however in regards to good quality leaders but the advantages are enormous. Should the minor power be conquered or Annexed the original purchaser can have the planes built back and they didnt cost them a cent.
 
major ball said:
Ever wondered how the Aussies can get Lancasters? Good fighters?

Dont build them yourself...By production runs off your Allies.
Say for example the UK has 50 IC a day allocated to supplies.
If the Aussies wanted good fighters and bombers built quickly with good docs.
They enquire to their Ally(UK)the cost and time it takes to produce.
So in 1938 the Aussies ask the UK and a fighter might cost 10IC.
The Aussies then give the UK 10 IC worth of supplies a day.
By doing this the UK can drop his required supplies down 10 IC to 40IC a day.

brilliant. i guess you have to .......
Click to expand...
 
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