How to escape being a vassal of a vassal (become independent or direct vassal)

[BFKelleher]

Let's say hypothetically I would like to form the Tokugawa Shogunate starting as the Matsudaira Kokujin of Kamo. How would I go about leading a clan or defecting from the Hosokawa clan to one where I could be a direct vassal (and can later scheme to lead my own clan, obviously)? I've attached a few screenshots of the starting situation and how the diplo options that would let me defect or lead my own clan aren't available due to my vassalage status.

 

[SAS]

Let's say hypothetically I would like to form the Tokugawa Shogunate starting as the Matsudaira Kokujin of Kamo. How would I go about leading a clan or defecting from the Hosokawa clan to one where I could be a direct vassal (and can later scheme to lead my own clan, obviously)? I've attached a few screenshots of the starting situation and how the diplo options that would let me defect or lead my own clan aren't available due to my vassalage status.

Are you locked from declaring independence due to the war? That would be by guess.

 

[BFKelleher]

Are you locked from declaring independence due to the war? That would be by guess.

I cannot join another clan because "only a direct vassal of the clan leader" can do that option.

I cannot form my own clan because I'm not a direct vassal of the clan leader (and I don't have enough military power).

The fact that I'm at war doesn't change matters. If I load up the game with a direct vassal who also starts at war, I can join another clan (even one I'm at war with) and can potentially form my own clan (after meeting military and honor prerequisites). I've added two screenshots that demonstrate this.

 

[SAS]

I think you would need to declare an independence war, win, then pledge to another lord then.

 

[BFKelleher]

I think you would need to declare an independence war, win, then pledge to another lord then.

This is not an option in Sengoku. In Crusader Kings II this is how one would become independent, but in Sengoku the Form Clan diplomatic option is the one used. Wars are declared between independent clan rulers, not between vassals or by vassals against leaders.

 

[SAS]

This is not an option in Sengoku. In Crusader Kings II this is how one would become independent, but in Sengoku the Form Clan diplomatic option is the one used. Wars are declared between independent clan rulers, not between vassals or by vassals against leaders.

Oh sorry then. I haven't play it in years but that looks like a limit of the game script then. Unless you mod the game scenario and make your character independent.

 

[BFKelleher]

I think the only option might be to pray that my clan starts to lose the war and then pray some more for my direct overlord to form their own clan or start killing my direct overlord via assassination so that the daimyo title passes to the clan leader and I become a direct vassal that way.