How to make the Papacy playable in the future?

[Azgabeth]

While it sounds like a fun concept in theory, I am somewhat wary of being too swarmed with the popups that the Sceptic Count of Vermandois very much would like his marriage annuled, while third son of duke of Connacht needs your approval for his betrothal with the minor cousin...

Only Kings and Emperors should be allowed to petition the pope.

Dukes Counts and Barons can go argue with their local bishops…

CK3 is a dynasty simulator for medieval nobility. Those are two themes in which the church doesn't fit. I we ever want to hope to make it work in the game, we'd have to expand the scope of the game.

It is precisely because it is a dynastic simulator for medieval nobility that clregy characters MUST become playable.

A huge part of medieval nobility was directly tied to the church. Second sons were bred precisely so they could become clergy. It’s why you have warrior-monks and priest-kings.

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

If you can adopt whoever you want to keep gameplay going as a sterile umayyad princess in 1066, the pope can adopt people to keep gameplay going

Adopting people, thus making them part of your dynasty ... looks really bad if your asses sit not on a temporal throne but a spiritual one. It's not a fertility problem, it's a nature of the position problem.
I am open to decisions making the Papal state a full-blown feudal kingdom ... I just don't think it's what it should play as most of the time.

 

[ray243]

Adopting people, thus making them part of your dynasty ... looks really bad if your asses sit not on a temporal throne but a spiritual one. It's not a fertility problem, it's a nature of the position problem.
I am open to decisions making the Papal state a full-blown feudal kingdom ... I just don't think it's what it should play as most of the time.

Only Kings and Emperors should be allowed to petition the pope.

Dukes Counts and Barons can go argue with their local bishops…



It is precisely because it is a dynastic simulator for medieval nobility that clregy characters MUST become playable.

A huge part of medieval nobility was directly tied to the church. Second sons were bred precisely so they could become clergy. It’s why you have warrior-monks and priest-kings.

Or just make Papal state some sort of wider admin government where all the catholic realms can nominate members of their families to become priests and climb the ranks of the clergy?

Even as the Pope, you are playing it to further your family/dynastic prestige. You might not have sons to inherit the papacy, but all the connections, wealth and influence you bring during your tenure as the pope can vastly increase the amount of influence your dynasty holds within the catholic world.

So basically think of the entire catholic realm as one big religious-admin realm. The papacy is basically a super highly prestigious governorship that you or your family members can be appointed, and when you die, the governorship might passed to someone else, but your family is an 'admin noble family' with estates, or you're a feudal lord that gained a lot influence/prestige/gold because when you're the pope, you greatly aided your family in many ways...

 

[DiabloDeVille]

Only Kings and Emperors should be allowed to petition the pope.

Dukes Counts and Barons can go argue with their local bishops…

In 867 it should largely be the local bishop, by late game era and the papacy winning out the investiture controversy, it should be the pope you ask

It is precisely because it is a dynastic simulator for medieval nobility that clregy characters MUST become playable.

A huge part of medieval nobility was directly tied to the church. Second sons were bred precisely so they could become clergy. It’s why you have warrior-monks and ppriest-kings

Agreed

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

Or just make Papal state some sort of wider admin government where all the catholic realms can nominate members of their families to become priests and climb the ranks of the clergy?

Even as the Pope, you are playing it to further your family/dynastic prestige. You might not have sons to inherit the papacy, but all the connections, wealth and influence you bring during your tenure as the pope can vastly increase the amount of influence your dynasty holds within the catholic world.

So basically think of the entire catholic realm as one big religious-admin realm. The papacy is basically a super highly prestigious governorship that you or your family members can be appointed, and when you die, the governorship might passed to someone else, but your family is an 'admin noble family' with estates, or you're a feudal lord that gained a lot influence/prestige/gold because when you're the pope, you greatly aided your family in many ways...

I think a new "organized religions" or "religious organizations" map mode would need to come out with the religions DLC if we want to play the papal game.
But I still think players influencing the religious organizations such as the Papal Court and monasteries from the outside as feudal lords would be a more possible goal to accomplish.
On a smaller note, I want emergent faiths, faiths that neither exist on the starting ledger nor are created from reforming these existing faiths. For real-life examples, I am asking for in-game Arnoldism. A faith created by a heretic preacher, and then players could choose to sponsor or suppress these movements.

 

[GhostDanny]

Meh, I don't really need to have the pope being playable.
Although an ability to get a dynasty member in the position could be cool

But I think it's already technically possible?

 

[H.A.S.E.V.I.R.]

Unite the land, all the lands.
Under one true popegod, one true pope emperor served by popegod worshiping vassal kings. Or at least kings in the religious org paying tribute to pope.

Something akin to Roman empire should be a suitable demense, so all the kings now serving there temporarily at the popes sufferance will have to be relocated.

How? Use holy war and other powers to punish those that defy and reward those that conform to those goals. King of spain is more than welcome to move to the pyramid lands and leave the iberian lands that belong to the papal roman empire to the pope. This is appropriate action. Similarily the france king should move to asia or somewhere else to conquer and convert those lands. Gallia belongs to the pope. Ad so on.

 

[GhostDanny]

Unite the land, all the lands.
Under one true popegod, one true pope emperor served by popegod worshiping vassal kings. Or at least kings in the religious org paying tribute to pope.

Something akin to Roman empire should be a suitable demense, so all the kings now serving there temporarily at the popes sufferance will have to be relocated.

How? Use holy war and other powers to punish those that defy and reward those that conform to those goals. King of spain is more than welcome to move to the pyramid lands and leave the iberian lands that belong to the papal roman empire to the pope. This is appropriate action. Similarily the france king should move to asia or somewhere else to conquer and convert those lands. Gallia belongs to the pope. Ad so on.

Just a temporal head of faith work just as fine for that... XD

 

[ray243]

I think a new "organized religions" or "religious organizations" map mode would need to come out with the religions DLC if we want to play the papal game.
But I still think players influencing the religious organizations such as the Papal Court and monasteries from the outside as feudal lords would be a more possible goal to accomplish.
On a smaller note, I want emergent faiths, faiths that neither exist on the starting ledger nor are created from reforming these existing faiths. For real-life examples, I am asking for in-game Arnoldism. A faith created by a heretic preacher, and then players could choose to sponsor or suppress these movements.

I think it also depends on how the campaign pan out. Because a powerful emperor should be able to enforce control over the pope and the pope becomes instead the mere head priest over churches in the west than a temporal religious figure outside of the various catholic monarchs.

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

I think it also depends on how the campaign pan out. Because a powerful emperor should be able to enforce control over the pope and the pope becomes instead the mere head priest over churches in the west than a temporal religious figure outside of the various catholic monarchs.

Oh, by from the outside I meant "outside of the religious organizations", i.e. I don't believe the Pope or any clergy for that matter must be playable, not "outside your own realm".