How to represent steppe cities

[apollo1989vieten]

I have heard the Khazars described as semi nomadic, which would suggest the settled population of the Khazar realm was higher than the average nomadic realm. The one thing I am wondering about is the size, number, and distribution of settlements away from major rivers, oasises, and the coast. Staple crops like wheat and barley couldn’t be grown on the steppe in quantities large enough to sustain a city if there wasn’t a reliable water source for irrigation nearby.

 

[klopkr]

When a nomad empire falls its capital will also be abandoned. How would this be simulated?

It's not the only place on the map. A bunch of cities in south east Asia had the same fate.

I think a mechanic where certain regions (steppe/jungles) might lead to the falls of cities after the fall of dynasties/realms. Just delete the holding.

 

[Zopyrionis]

I have heard the Khazars described as semi nomadic, which would suggest the settled population of the Khazar realm was higher than the average nomadic realm.

Actually, most of big tribes can be described as semi-nomadic. For example, Muhammad al-Idrisi mention that Oghuzes were divided into nomadic and settled. There was even a special name for Oghuzes that become settled according to Mahmud al-Kashgari – they were known as “Yatuki”, which mean “lazy one”. Kimaks, Karluks and many other tribes were also semi-settled. Sometimes cities or castles of these tribes were built by Sogdian architects, and they were in no way inferior to the Khazar cities I described.

The one thing I am wondering about is the size, number, and distribution of settlements away from major rivers, oasises, and the coast. Staple crops like wheat and barley couldn’t be grown on the steppe in quantities large enough to sustain a city if there wasn’t a reliable water source for irrigation nearby.

As for your question… I should clarify that I have never been particularly interested in other nomads besides the Khazars and I could be wrong about that, but based on facts I personally knew, it’s very unlikely that such settlements were large enough to be considered even a small town. There is no point in their foundation – even camel and sheep breeders will have difficulty surviving in them due to droughts. Even if something like this did exist, they most likely represent settlements of nomads displaced by other tribes. Or in the form of caravanserai sites.

There are some exceptions, like Sauran city mentioned by multiple sources (and its ruins still exist). This city had kariz system – Persian underground irrigation, that covers dozens of kilometers around the city. But this city can’t be described as a small one – it was located on an important trade crossroad and every source describe it as a large city. There is no way that some small tribe could finance something like kariz – it’s actually easier to conquer some cities in Sogdiana or Horezm that have such systems.

 

[Truenorth14]

Obviously it's not fitting for every example, but I actually think Steppe Cities should feature as a representation of Absolute dominance Nomad Camps. Basically it should be the approaching the peak of having nomad camp, requiring tier 4 and tier 5 Dominance. To my knowledge, most "steppe cities" like Sarai would be the centers of nomadic Empires(the Golden Horde, in Sarai's case). Indeed Sarai IIRC had a considerable nomadic element with huge numbers of tents. Basically, these steppe-cities relied on being the centers of a network of tribute and trade in order to ensure their place on the landscape(though they did exploit the land around them as well, ultimately if not the center/benefitting from a state, they would fade away). As such I'd have it so that at at least T4 dominance, or whatever Dominance level the Khazars start at at least, you can choose to turn your camp into a city, giving it a proper name(rather than just "Khan X's Camp", new buildings options and more powerful buildings, Many tent buildings can remain but now you can also establish grander buildings/districts for your nomad capital.

In my opinion this is the best option. Basically an upgrade to your camp that perhaps stops our ability to migrate unless we abandon the city for a cost.

The biggest bonus could perhaps be that you get both your camp and some holding buildings that cities get in general.

 

[Lazarenko]

Pastoral nomadism is defined as 'a way of life where people, typically herders, move with their livestock (like goats, sheep, or camels) to find fresh pastures, rather than having a permanent settlement.' Nomads didn't live in cities by their very lifestyle. Having said that, there are cases of numerous cultures that began as nomadic who through conquest and size eventually became either non-nomadic or semi-nomadic. Some cultures retained their nomadic nature throughout and still had cities, but for specific economic purposes.

I would suggest general city building for either semi-nomadic or former nomadic cultures, following hybrid cultural changes over time. Trade cities should be possible even for fully nomadic cultures. Nomadic and semi-nomadic cultures would have to be at least kingdom level to do so. Former nomadic wouldn't apply since they're sedentary at that point and go by normal CK3 general sedentary developments.

 

[GhostDanny]

I would guess a small town run by a mayor?

Which bends the knee to who ever own the county?

 

[Muezzahan]

I have also heard the Kirghiz were semi nomadic.