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Main point of the thread is lack of detail in China and India, therefore disagree emoji automatically means opposing that,

If you use dislike button for one sentence or minor point in a big post, that is not my problem lol
I regularly use the disagree reaction when I disagree with the tone (particularly if hostile or rude) or means of expressing an opinion, even if I don't disagree with the actual opinion. You disagreed with my post, even though all I was saying was that there are many other reasons why someone might have used the respectfully disagreed on the OP. Since you said that the only reason to use that reaction is if you disagree with a post, this is basically you declaring that I'm lying about why I used this reaction on the OP and that there's no other reason a person could have disagreed with the OP other than one you stated. That comes across as quite arrogant and rude IMO, but you do you I guess.
Also about the frequency of the posts, none of the issues has been resolved, so there is no reason for these type of posts to stop
Actually no, if there's already a thread discussing a topic you're supposed to use that thread, not make a new one about the same topic. Hence why moderators will often merge threads of a similar topic, and we've already seen this specific topic have threads merged multiple times. Spamming the forums with threads about your personal pet peeve is peak entitlement and goes against forum etiquette, hence why someone clearly made a new account to make this thread.
 
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The game starts even earlier than EU3: Europe's eventual dominance was less likely than it was in 1453 or 1399. Both China and India should have all the tools they need to properly compete.
 
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The game starts even earlier than EU3: Europe's eventual dominance was less likely than it was in 1453 or 1399. Both China and India should have all the tools they need to properly compete.
who says they don't?
 
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Let me reiterate that I fully understand why some people, for various reasons, prefer to have as many locations as possible. But in that case, how should China’s locations be further subdivided? It would obviously be unrealistic to divide them based on the tens of thousands of townships and villages, which are a level below the historical counties. However, if we simply split the current 1,000-plus locations into two or three thousand, that would mean including minor place names like Changchiawan (Chang family's river bend) or Palichuang (village eight li from the city) on the same level as counties and sub-prefectures. Personally, I find that rather jarring, and it’s the main reason I’m not in favour of further subdivisions.

In my view, if the size of locations doesn’t have a major impact on gameplay, then—as I mentioned earlier—dividing them based on the historical counties (縣) and sub-prefectures (散州), with some limited additions or removals to balance density (such as carving out major city of prefectures (府) that had multiple dependent counties), would be a much better approach. Otherwise, rather than enhancing historical immersion, over-subdivision could actually diminish it, which would run counter to the intended purpose.
 
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I regularly use the disagree reaction when I disagree with the tone (particularly if hostile or rude) or means of expressing an opinion, even if I don't disagree with the actual opinion. You disagreed with my post, even though all I was saying was that there are many other reasons why someone might have used the respectfully disagreed on the OP. Since you said that the only reason to use that reaction is if you disagree with a post, this is basically you declaring that I'm lying about why I used this reaction on the OP and that there's no other reason a person could have disagreed with the OP other than one you stated. That comes across as quite arrogant and rude IMO, but you do you I guess.

Actually no, if there's already a thread discussing a topic you're supposed to use that thread, not make a new one about the same topic. Hence why moderators will often merge threads of a similar topic, and we've already seen this specific topic have threads merged multiple times. Spamming the forums with threads about your personal pet peeve is peak entitlement and goes against forum etiquette, hence why someone clearly made a new account to make this thread.

Your main point of argument was your statements regarding what disagree to OP means, and I responded why I disagreed and I also gave disagree emoji, same as this post, you just wrong thats why I gave disagree again

I havent created the thread otherwise I would use the existing threads, but making a new thread for something already exist
always happens, but I never seen disagree emojis that much in other topics, because they/you are overreacting because of eurocentric instincts, there are many disagrees in the original post threads too including china tinto maps thread, so you are plain wrong
 
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who says they don't?

I'm skeptical that Paradox has developed a game where more locations =/= more long term power. But maybe I'm wrong! I'm willing to wait and see.
 
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I'm skeptical that Paradox has developed a game where more locations =/= more long term power. But maybe I'm wrong! I'm willing to wait and see.
Of course, let's wait and see. But with the pop system it means that a country with 5 locations and 500k total pops is stronger than a country with 20 locations and 100k total pops, simply due to the fact that despite having more locations, they don't have enough people to fulfill as many jobs as the other country.

Obviously there are many more factors at play, but this is the power of the pop system, and why number of locations is no longer the decisive measure of a country's strength, unlike in EU4. Also this means that playing tall will be oh so much fun!
 
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Your main point of argument was your statements regarding what disagree to OP means, and I responded why I disagreed and I also gave disagree emoji, same as this post, you just wrong thats why I gave disagree again

I havent created the thread otherwise I would use the existing threads, but making a new thread for something already exist
always happens, but I never seen disagree emojis that much in other topics, because they/you are overreacting because of eurocentric instincts, there are many disagrees in the original post threads too including china tinto maps thread, so you are plain wrong
That's not what my main statement was. My main statement was that there are many reasons people might use the disagree button on the OP, and then I listed some of the reasons I personally disagreed with his post. How can I be wrong about that? By saying that I'm wrong you're calling me a liar. It has nothing to do with "Eurocentric instincts," especially considering that at no point have I ever posted disagreement with the idea that China/India needs more locations. I'm not sure why you're having so much trouble understanding this.
 
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Let me reiterate that I fully understand why some people, for various reasons, prefer to have as many locations as possible. But in that case, how should China’s locations be further subdivided? It would obviously be unrealistic to divide them based on the tens of thousands of townships and villages, which are a level below the historical counties. However, if we simply split the current 1,000-plus locations into two or three thousand, that would mean including minor place names like Changchiawan (Chang family's river bend) or Palichuang (village eight li from the city) on the same level as counties and sub-prefectures. Personally, I find that rather jarring, and it’s the main reason I’m not in favour of further subdivisions.

In my view, if the size of locations doesn’t have a major impact on gameplay, then—as I mentioned earlier—dividing them based on the historical counties (縣) and sub-prefectures (散州), with some limited additions or removals to balance density (such as carving out major city of prefectures (府) that had multiple dependent counties), would be a much better approach. Otherwise, rather than enhancing historical immersion, over-subdivision could actually diminish it, which would run counter to the intended purpose.
I agree, but to make location density less impactful I propose to make each location produce multiple raw materials rather than single one.
 
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I agree, but to make location density less impactful I propose to make each location produce multiple raw materials rather than single one.
Again, you guys place too much importance on RGOs. Buildings can do that. The most significant thing is population.

The better option would be making location size matter, directly influencing total population, total RGO levels, etc
 
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I agree, but to make location density less impactful I propose to make each location produce multiple raw materials rather than single one.
The fact that those locations are going to have a lot more pops working in a lot more buildings means they will probably be producing more resources, raw and otherwise, than multiple European locations of similar size. As it should be
 
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Again, you guys place too much importance on RGOs. Buildings can do that. The most significant thing is population.

The better option would be making location size matter, directly influencing total population, total RGO levels, etc
Buildings require raw materials, especially those production facilities. Less raw materials means less option of buildings, or it will not function as you lack the required resources.
 
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Just providing some reference here. Average county (县) during Ming dynasty was roughly 3000 km² in area, the average population would be 100,000. A country would consist about 20 townships (乡) in average, each township governs about 100-150 km² and consists many villages. I'm not an expert on European administration, and as far as the Devs continue to implement the pop system, location numbers would not be my top concerns.
What I am concerned is the amount of resources produced, so far it seems that each location can only produce one trade good and the amount of trade good a country produced is limited by the location numbers. So if Ming had 1200 locations and HRE had 1000 locations, the total amount of trade goods produced and the related trade values generated would be similar accordingly even thought the population and size of country was drastically different. Hopefully this can be adjusted.
I was initially concerned about single trade goods per location too. But it only apply to resource gathering operation (RGO), which seems to be only a minor part, mostly relevant at the beginning. Locations do get unlimited buildings and those produce new trade goods.

So a location would theorically be specialized in a crop (let's say rice). Population and development growth would increase that resource output, but that is eventuallu maxed. However, building things like breweries, paper mills etc, will produce new goods at the location. So, instead of having a complex land allocation inside the location to have several crops per location, you may keep the rice production (scaling a bit with development) and additional buildings (farms, fisheries, sawmills, vineyards...) adding other resources.

My suspicion is that over the long term the building base of a location will become more important than the RGO. You may want to stack modifiers in some locations oriented to a specific trade good (like this is the lead mine for the empire). But in a tall empire you are likely to need diversified production via a network of buildings to support the demand of a high population. Those in turn may end more limited by the manpower available per location than the location density. Population growth will likely require economic management (to satisfy goods consumed by pops). RGO-oriented locations are likely to be the more backwater parts of a tag with trade empires maybe wanting to skip them and directly import those goods.
 
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The fact that those locations are going to have a lot more pops working in a lot more buildings means they will probably be producing more resources, raw and otherwise, than multiple European locations of similar size. As it should be
More pops makes one type of resources in great quantity, but don't add more types of raw materials to a location. Many resources are location based meaning they cannot be produced by buildings.
 
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I was initially concerned about single trade goods per location too. But it only apply to resource gathering operation (RGO), which seems to be only a minor part, mostly relevant at the beginning. Locations do get unlimited buildings and those produce new trade goods.

So a location would theorically be specialized in a crop (let's say rice). Population and development growth would increase that resource output, but that is eventuallu maxed. However, building things like breweries, paper mills etc, will produce new goods at the location. So, instead of having a complex land allocation inside the location to have several crops per location, you may keep the rice production (scaling a bit with development) and additional buildings (farms, fisheries, sawmills, vineyards...) adding other resources.

My suspicion is that over the long term the building base of a location will become more important than the RGO. You may want to stack modifiers in some locations oriented to a specific trade good (like this is the lead mine for the empire). But in a tall empire you are likely to need diversified production via a network of buildings to support the demand of a high population. Those in turn may end more limited by the manpower available per location than the location density. Population growth will likely require economic management (to satisfy goods consumed by pops). RGO-oriented locations are likely to be the more backwater parts of a tag with trade empires maybe wanting to skip them and directly import those goods.
I hope this is the case, however if you check the raw materials of tintomaps, lots of the very basic stuff are location based, such as minerals (iron, tin, copper, saltpeter etc), stone, lumber, clay and marble are all important thing, and there are wine and other brewing materials too, I don't know if you can produce stone through buildings even a location doesn't have stone resources.
 
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More pops makes one type of resources in great quantity, but don't add more types of raw materials to a location. Many resources are location based meaning they cannot be produced by buildings.
And having more locations would solve that how? It's not like any new ones would come with resources that haven't been historically produced there, you'd just get yet another basic wood or stone or whatever location you probably already have access to, but since RGO sizes can scale, you get the same result anyways. Increased location density won't solve resource availability, that's what trade or conquest is for.
 
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Of course, let's wait and see. But with the pop system it means that a country with 5 locations and 500k total pops is stronger than a country with 20 locations and 100k total pops, simply due to the fact that despite having more locations, they don't have enough people to fulfill as many jobs as the other country.

Obviously there are many more factors at play, but this is the power of the pop system, and why number of locations is no longer the decisive measure of a country's strength, unlike in EU4. Also this means that playing tall will be oh so much fun!

Even with the POP system owning more land tended to be strictly superior in games like Victoria or Imp. (Note: I haven't played the newest patch of V3 yet)
 
That's not what my main statement was. My main statement was that there are many reasons people might use the disagree button on the OP, and then I listed some of the reasons I personally disagreed with his post. How can I be wrong about that? By saying that I'm wrong you're calling me a liar. It has nothing to do with "Eurocentric instincts," especially considering that at no point have I ever posted disagreement with the idea that China/India needs more locations. I'm not sure why you're having so much trouble understanding this.

I say you are wrong because these are not reasons for a disagree emoji, so you/they are either wrong or dont know what you are doing and misleading the devs which might result in less final density in China and India, which is what Eurocentrics want, thus you are undirectly contributing to the Eurocentric claims and I accuse you of Eurocentric because of that lol

You are misleading devs, which means ypu are wrong, this is why I once again drop a dislike emoji
 
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Even with the POP system owning more land tended to be strictly superior in games like Victoria or Imp. (Note: I haven't played the newest patch of V3 yet)
I don't think that's strictly the case in Vic 3. The only advantage is if you're missing resources in a given state. A couple powerful states in central Europe were always infinitely more useful than large expanses of sparsely populated steppe.

In Imperator, pops felt like much more of an abstraction, so I would agree there.

From what I've seen of EU5, pops are much more intricately tied to the state and it's outcomes than it any previous Paradox game (and I include the Vicky series).
 
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I hope this is the case, however if you check the raw materials of tintomaps, lots of the very basic stuff are location based, such as minerals (iron, tin, copper, saltpeter etc), stone, lumber, clay and marble are all important thing, and there are wine and other brewing materials too, I don't know if you can produce stone through buildings even a location doesn't have stone resources.
I'm speculating here, but what I interpret from several Saturday buildings ins that RGO materials are pretty basic. For example, you produce wood that way.

Then you need wood for sheep and cattle farm (that produce meat, leather...), hemp farm (that produce textiles), tar kiln and similar (that produce shipbuilding resources), papermills (that produce paper), dye maker (that produce dyes), shipyards (for ships)... You can build them in different areas. You could have them in a forested area in your empire that produce wood. But you can also build them in other parts. If manpower is a limiting factor, or building are built organically by estates, or market access for other goods needed (dyes, etc) they can fit better in a coastal, well developed city.

That is usually a self-sustained cycle, both in real life and in other games (thinking of games like Stellaris). You want to supply your shipyard in the coast or your weapons workshop, that at game start may seem more of a wood/iron issue. But as the game advances you want bigger buildings with more burghers working on them, which requires increasing quantities of things like glass, bricks, etc (for the buildings construction and upkeep) and beer, textiles... (for the burghers). It is increased not only because you need more, but because later production method requires access to more complex supply chains and because your society will likely end with higher proportion of elites by the end. So eventually you also need ancillary industries to supply things that by game start are exceptional "luxury" items. Wanting to produce scientific or cultural progress will also require population to be supplied of those consumer goods.

That cycle means forest work, mining etc may be more relevant by game start than by game end. The longer in the game, the more relevant easier construction cost, market access, burgher population and so are for choosing a location for a industry. So having a few "big" locations in northern Scandinavia that produce wood is unlikely to be very relevant economically in comparison with Stockholm. My guess is that you want to develop them as long as needed to keep a wood surplus. Then you'll have an ecosystem of higher added-value trade good production in the coast.

There may be some minor scale advantages in splitting or merging 8000 pops working on a single wood RGO vs 8x1000 pops in eight wood RGOs. And having a lot of granularity may allow you to have 6x1000 wood RGOs + 1x1000 stone + 1x1000 copper locations. But I hope the game is not so micromanagement heavy that we end min-maxing RGOs allocation per resource among the core part of the game rather than building more sofisticated parts of the economy. If you are for example Sweden, a single huge Falun copper mine should make you so excedentary in copper that fine tuning locations for small boosts is not very attractive. You could actually see parts of your empire as the "bread basket" or the "fur supply colony" without them feeling particularly core regions. In Stellaris you stack mining modifiers for your mining/agricultural world, but that is basically its function: to supply minerals/food to other, more interesting worls. It becomes a bit boring having several of the same type.

I think location density is more driven for political (how precise borders can get) and military (where choke points and bottlenecs are) gameplay than economic gameplay
 
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