How would you overhaul nomads?

[BUSALIA]

The Hephthalites descend from the Lesser Yuezhi, that is, the Indo-Europeans of Mongolia, according to the Russian researcher Klyashtorny, who relies on the Chinese chronicle. Probably, under pressure from the Xiongnu, they could change their language to the R-Turkic-Oghur language, but there was clearly not enough time for assimilation, about 200 years.
Kipchaks, or Cumans in European languages, come from Xueyntuo, from the Tele, or Gaogyui, confederationhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xueyantuo, according to Klyashtorny, who relies on some evidence. They and the Oghuz already spoke a single Z-Turkic (Oghuz) language. The Z-lingual Türks could not understand the R-lingual Türks without an interpreter.

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I don't think these pieces of information are contradictory. We can draw a more reasonable conjecture that Yan Da/Bai Xiongnu/Avar originated from the slippery tribes of the Gauchetiele people who spoke the Ugur Turkic language, and then conquered Bactria and became Bactrianized and Iranianized by the local people. And then they still maintained internal intermarriage

 

[klopkr]

Oh one last thing. If they make a Nomad DLC and there's no Mongolian throat singing music included I'm boycotting!!!

Hmmmmmyuyuyuuuuuuuuuyuuuuuuuhrah

 

[WolfClaw]

My idea of hordes would be that they own provinces similarity to how they are owned now, but they have no actually built baronies, instead they have a host (maybe there is a better word for it) which functions like their realm capital, and they can move about with it like an army. They can also choose to build camp (again, there is probably a better more accurate term) whereby a barony building appears where all courtiers and non fighters stay, while the army now is a bit faster and stronger.

This also builds on the colonization idea further up in the thread, whereby settled people's can colonize horde territories (perhaps some tribe territories as well, ie ostsiedlung?), but hordes can also raze settled territories to turn them into "horde lands".

This idea needs some more fleshing out obviously

native tribe in eu4 lmao

 

[WolfClaw]

Can we avoid the 19th century pop-history junk?
This stuff belongs in crappy political memes, not history.

It's a fairly simplified historical model, simplified enough to be added to the game mechanics, which I think is better than forced events and focus/task trees, and if you don't like those words, we can change them, like Decadence balabala. (*Clan unity lol)

 

[Renarin]

I think that there should be a broader rework of how titles work in general to accommodate nomadic realms. Right now title creation follows a strict procedure of annex territory -> create larger tier title to hold that territory. This doesn't really capture more weakly consolidated coalition realms (which were common on the steppe), in large part because you can't have peer equals as vassals, the closest being the (once in a lifetime) subjugation war. Instead I propose an alternate way to get higher tier titles if you aren't already that rank: A nomadic casus belli for turning other nomads (including peers) into tributaries or something similar, and then enabling the creation of a title with a tier higher than your primary if every ruler in the title's territory is an ally, tributary, or member of your realm, then allowing you to vassalize all involved. Such a title might have a "weakly consolidated" modifier, causing it to dissolve on death or otherwise make it more prone to collapse unless you change the succession law. This kind of thing could also be useful for the High King of Ireland or similar situations. In practice I think that the game in general should be more granular with its quantification of titles and things like the legitimacy of a realm or current ruler, and I'd like to see changes beyond just that, but that would be good enough for nomadic realms.

I think it could be interesting if there was a migration activity to represent moving your herds through your pasture land. In reality this would be done seasonally every year, but then again so would feasts in a nobleman's halls so having it be done more sparesly on command is an acceptable gameplay compromise. Performing such an activity would be important in replenishing a herds/manpower resource, but would exhaust the land based on how much you have already, requiring larger hordes to move capitals and hold more land. If you should happen to lose your land, and can't get more, it also provides a window of time where you are still strong and can launch a varangian adventure type war to go elsewhere. Alternatively, if it's at all possible, the seasonal migrations could be planned out like travelling, but instead of being an activity it could just be a moving camp pawn, so it can happen constantly but in a more "set and forget" kind of way.

 

[kimuyama]

native tribe in eu4 lmao

But better!

 

[The Norman Yoke]

I think that there should be a broader rework of how titles work in general to accommodate nomadic realms. Right now title creation follows a strict procedure of annex territory -> create larger tier title to hold that territory. This doesn't really capture more weakly consolidated coalition realms (which were common on the steppe), in large part because you can't have peer equals as vassals, the closest being the (once in a lifetime) subjugation war. Instead I propose an alternate way to get higher tier titles if you aren't already that rank: A nomadic casus belli for turning other nomads (including peers) into tributaries or something similar, and then enabling the creation of a title with a tier higher than your primary if every ruler in the title's territory is an ally, tributary, or member of your realm, then allowing you to vassalize all involved. Such a title might have a "weakly consolidated" modifier, causing it to dissolve on death or otherwise make it more prone to collapse unless you change the succession law. This kind of thing could also be useful for the High King of Ireland or similar situations. In practice I think that the game in general should be more granular with its quantification of titles and things like the legitimacy of a realm or current ruler, and I'd like to see changes beyond just that, but that would be good enough for nomadic realms.

Or just bring back ck2 ambitions so that tribals can get unlimited subjugation cbs within their de jure kingdom if they want to be the king of that region. ck3 also lets you conquer duchies at a time whilst pagans could only do counties at a time in ck2

I think it could be interesting if there was a migration activity to represent moving your herds through your pasture land. In reality this would be done seasonally every year, but then again so would feasts in a nobleman's halls so having it be done more sparesly on command is an acceptable gameplay compromise. Performing such an activity would be important in replenishing a herds/manpower resource, but would exhaust the land based on how much you have already, requiring larger hordes to move capitals and hold more land. If you should happen to lose your land, and can't get more, it also provides a window of time where you are still strong and can launch a varangian adventure type war to go elsewhere. Alternatively, if it's at all possible, the seasonal migrations could be planned out like travelling, but instead of being an activity it could just be a moving camp pawn, so it can happen constantly but in a more "set and forget" kind of way.

But activities already don't matter much for representing on map locations, sure control and public opinion can affect the danger, but the actual real danger of being besieged/raided in that county somehow isnt represented by all the people being captured

 

[Bisonmask]

I think that there should be a broader rework of how titles work in general to accommodate nomadic realms. Right now title creation follows a strict procedure of annex territory -> create larger tier title to hold that territory. This doesn't really capture more weakly consolidated coalition realms (which were common on the steppe), in large part because you can't have peer equals as vassals, the closest being the (once in a lifetime) subjugation war. Instead I propose an alternate way to get higher tier titles if you aren't already that rank: A nomadic casus belli for turning other nomads (including peers) into tributaries or something similar, and then enabling the creation of a title with a tier higher than your primary if every ruler in the title's territory is an ally, tributary, or member of your realm, then allowing you to vassalize all involved. Such a title might have a "weakly consolidated" modifier, causing it to dissolve on death or otherwise make it more prone to collapse unless you change the succession law. This kind of thing could also be useful for the High King of Ireland or similar situations. In practice I think that the game in general should be more granular with its quantification of titles and things like the legitimacy of a realm or current ruler, and I'd like to see changes beyond just that, but that would be good enough for nomadic realms.

This could help fix tribal realms too by giving them an actual "autonomous vassals" state where rulers are just nominally sworn to a leader and can choose to support or oppose them at will. Which will also help make tribal realms not disappear/convert by 1066 because they can be made stronger/more united without worries of them steamrolling everything