I quit!

[Garuda]

Yesterday I defended the AI decision making in another post as part of the realism of trying to reign in subordinate commanders. Today I quit a game because it seems the AI is really stupid afterall.

Here's why: I take a brigade around some woodland to come around the back of the enemy artillery batteries. I take them by surprise and double time an advance to a good charge position right next to the guns. I press charge and what happens? You'd expect my regiments to charge and capture the guns that they've come right up on....but no, they bugger off in an entirely new direction to charge an enemy infantry regiment about three times further away than the artillery guns I want them to take. Needless to say, I got slaughtered.

Bah!

 

[szmik]

it seems they should ask Sid Meier how to script AI properly

AI in Sid Meier's Gettysburg was the best I've ever seen in game.

 

[Garuda]

AI in Sid Meier's Gettysburg was the best I've ever seen in game.

I've heard of it but never seen it on a shop shelf.

 

[szmik]

I've heard of it but never seen it on a shop shelf.

it's hard to get, but you could try on Amazon.com

 

[unmerged(37472)]

Yesterday I defended the AI decision making in another post as part of the realism of trying to reign in subordinate commanders. Today I quit a game because it seems the AI is really stupid afterall.

Here's why: I take a brigade around some woodland to come around the back of the enemy artillery batteries. I take them by surprise and double time an advance to a good charge position right next to the guns. I press charge and what happens? You'd expect my regiments to charge and capture the guns that they've come right up on....but no, they bugger off in an entirely new direction to charge an enemy infantry regiment about three times further away than the artillery guns I want them to take. Needless to say, I got slaughtered.

Bah!

So you won't be back here. Is that correct?

 

[unmerged(37472)]

it seems they should ask Sid Meier how to script AI properly

AI in Sid Meier's Gettysburg was the best I've ever seen in game.

szmik,

There is obviously much to be learned from you. Please share with us your background in the use of artificial intelligence in gaming technologies and the evaluation criteria you use for making your assessments and what underpins the posting of your assertions here. It would be personnally encouraging to me to know the weight I should place on your analysis.

v/r

Wrangler

 

[Shirkon]

Yesterday I defended the AI decision making in another post as part of the realism of trying to reign in subordinate commanders. Today I quit a game because it seems the AI is really stupid afterall.

Here's why: I take a brigade around some woodland to come around the back of the enemy artillery batteries. I take them by surprise and double time an advance to a good charge position right next to the guns. I press charge and what happens? You'd expect my regiments to charge and capture the guns that they've come right up on....but no, they bugger off in an entirely new direction to charge an enemy infantry regiment about three times further away than the artillery guns I want them to take. Needless to say, I got slaughtered.

Bah!

Ok, let me get this straight. Your men decided to attack a regiment where they had a good chance of surviving instead of charging a batteries where they had a chance of getting blown completely away by canister and double canister? Sounds to me like they made a rather INTELLIGENT decision to me. I'm sure they thought they had a much better chance against the infantry then the artillery.

 

[unmerged(56857)]

Ok, let me get this straight. Your men decided to attack a regiment where they had a good chance of surviving instead of charging a batteries where they had a chance of getting blown completely away by canister and double canister? Sounds to me like they made a rather INTELLIGENT decision to me. I'm sure they thought they had a much better chance against the infantry then the artillery.

No, I would also want them to take the guns. Did you read the story?
I take it no.

He said that he flanked them meaning it would be hard for the arty guns to wheel or maybe even a about face. Thus the arty guns cannot be blown by canister shot. Plus how is it a Intelligent decision? You can capture the guns wich have more strategic value and turn them twords enemy infantry. The guys that captured the guns can then go on to engage enemy infantry.

Sorry but good try, Now try again.

 

[unmerged(52180)]

It's probably a performance issue. Based on the symptoms described, it would seem that the LOS is not updating quick enough in this situation and therefore the AI is not making wise decisions about what is currently visible to the player. This is one of the biggest weaknesses of the game. I will always defend my AI because I think it's pretty good, but there are a couple of bad links in the chain that can prevent the AI from getting a clear picture of the battle. This is testament to the fact that our AI never cheats. With all that said, our AI is designed to simulate a battle, it is not RTS AI. Meaning that based on many factors, units may not always do what they are told. But I believe that in the case of charging, they should always go to the closest target, as that makes the most sense for anyone. So we come back to my thought that the LOS was updating too slow and they thought that the closest target was much farther away.

Anyway, I'm on it. Look for another TC2M patch. We have a few issues that we want to refine before we move on to our next project.

 

[Shirkon]

Good point Norb, just because the player can see the guns and knows where they are, doesn't mean the AI also saw them. Any slight rise in the ground between the attacking brigade and the guns could have hidden them and some of those elevations can be hard to spot especially if they are masked by woods.

 

[Garuda]

So you won't be back here. Is that correct?

Nah, I'll be playing again. The game is addictive. I just got somewhat annoyed yesterday that what seemed an obvious and logical target choice to me (I deilberately bought my regiments right up behind the guns afterall) , wasn't the same choice of the AI.

I'd gone to considerable trouble to march an entire brigade the long way around woodland to assault the guns from behind.

 

[unmerged(52180)]

Next time before you charge, make sure that the guns you want to charge are in the target list and are the closest. That should prevent this from happening in the future. If they are not, just wait, they should be there soon as long as they are really visible to the unit.

 

[unmerged(52715)]

It's probably a performance issue. Based on the symptoms described, it would seem that the LOS is not updating quick enough in this situation and therefore the AI is not making wise decisions about what is currently visible to the player. This is one of the biggest weaknesses of the game. I will always defend my AI because I think it's pretty good, but there are a couple of bad links in the chain that can prevent the AI from getting a clear picture of the battle. This is testament to the fact that our AI never cheats. With all that said, our AI is designed to simulate a battle, it is not RTS AI. Meaning that based on many factors, units may not always do what they are told. But I believe that in the case of charging, they should always go to the closest target, as that makes the most sense for anyone. So we come back to my thought that the LOS was updating too slow and they thought that the closest target was much farther away.

Anyway, I'm on it. Look for another TC2M patch. We have a few issues that we want to refine before we move on to our next project.

Good job and great support guys!

 

[Garuda]

Hi norb,

Sorry if my initial post caused any offence. I should learn to wait a couple of hours before posting when I’m in a mood.

You’re assessment of the possible reasons for the AI decision for choice of target sounds very plausible. My regiments approached the rear of the enemy batteries from an oblique angle. The guns, as expected, were on raised ground, whereas the enemy infantry that were eventually charged were ahead of the guns and slightly to one side, but on level ground to my own troops.

My infantry actually turned right and charged around the raised ground to the right side of the guns. They went past the guns and so into their line of fire as they charged the enemy infantry. LOS may definitely be a factor.

 

[Shirkon]

Hi norb,

Sorry if my initial post caused any offence. I should learn to wait a couple of hours before posting when I’m in a mood.

You’re assessment of the possible reasons for the AI decision for choice of target sounds very plausible. My regiments approached the rear of the enemy batteries from an oblique angle. The guns, as expected, were on raised ground, whereas the enemy infantry that were eventually charged were ahead of the guns and slightly to one side, but on level ground to my own troops.

My infantry actually turned right and charged around the raised ground to the right side of the guns. They went past the guns and so into their line of fire as they charged the enemy infantry. LOS may definitely be a factor.

Sometimes it helps to hit the F key so you can actually see what the unit is seeing. This can often reveal LOS obstructions.

 

[szmik]

szmik,

There is obviously much to be learned from you. Please share with us your background in the use of artificial intelligence in gaming technologies and the evaluation criteria you use for making your assessments and what underpins the posting of your assertions here. It would be personnally encouraging to me to know the weight I should place on your analysis.

v/r

Wrangler

I got it
I'm sorry

 

[unmerged(52445)]

Here's why: I take a brigade around some woodland to come around the back of the enemy artillery batteries. I take them by surprise and double time an advance to a good charge position right next to the guns. I press charge and what happens? You'd expect my regiments to charge and capture the guns that they've come right up on....but no, they bugger off in an entirely new direction to charge an enemy infantry regiment about three times further away than the artillery guns I want them to take. Needless to say, I got slaughtered.

Well...

That happens depending on the proximity of units.

Normally I double time them right next to the battery. Normally, as they are very close to the battery I order a charge. But if you don't, as soon as the regiment moves alongside the battery it will automatically charge the battery by itself.

It takes some practise, also.. watch the fatigue level. Your guys may have been quite fatigued and thus very brittle if fired upon.

Ray Rivers (aka Lava)