I made this thread as a way of brainstorming for ideas on how modders improve the succession law system, make it fully-featured and still remain functional. Clearly because the devs don't have this on their radar.
I don't know if this is even moddable, but I do hope some modders will give it a try, and I'll try to learn about modding myself if possible.
So far, the game has only 4 succession laws. They are all straight from the old EU-Rome, so they are not very flexible. And the other problem is, there is too few of them.
I have a few concepts that I think will make this aspect of the game game far better than what it is. A much more dynamic, flexible system...if somehow they can be modded in at all.
A - Split the Succession Laws into two
The good thing about CK2 was that its succession law and gender law were two different things. Which means succession law wasn't automatically tied to gender like this game. You could have the standard Agnatic Primogeniture, but you could also have Cognatic and even Enatic Seniority. Or same with Elective, or Ultimogeniture or Gavelkind or anything you could want. It was a good system.
So Imperator Rome can also split succession laws into two separate laws -
1 - Succession Law proper, which decides how succession takes place and in which order.
2 - Gender Law, which decides who is eligible for succession law.
This separation will greatly enhance the control of player over their country's inheritance system. EU-Rome had the same issue as CK1 of rigid single-click laws, and CK2 fixed that. Same should be done here.
B - Add more types of Succession Laws
In Imperator we have only two real succession laws - primogeniture and seniority. But of course, more can be added, and CK2 is again the archetype example.
Here is the ones I have in mind so far, please tell me more about any laws you know that can be added to this list.
- Primogeniture - Eldest child succeeds, and if they die their eldest child succeeds. Brothers (i.e. 2nd and other sons of the ruler) only come after that.
- Ultimogeniture - Opposite of the above. Youngest child of the ruler succeeds, and their youngest child after them. Or their youngest brother if they die.
- Seniority - Succession is based on age. Eldest eligible member of the family succeeds, followed by the next eldest and so on.
- Open Succession - Kinda like CK2. The dynasty member with most prominence (or maybe popularity? stats? a mix of everything?) takes it all. Heavy penalties to loyalty of other pretenders, but less damage to legitimacy than normal. It is intended to create a powerful ruler and government at the cost of family issues.
- Gavelkind-esque - Theoretical. Now I know this is a bit anachronistic and feudalism isn't present here, but would it be possible to make all sons of ruler pretenders in equal rights, and divide all the ruler's personal money with them once they die?
- Tanistry/Eldership or such - Theoretical. Anachronistic again, but would it be possible to make it so that all family members of the ruling family are allowed to be pretenders on equal standing, and allow either just the ruling family members or all heads of all families to elect the next successor from the ruling family.
- Elective - Theoretical and very anachronistic. Heads of every family are given the power to elect the ruler. All can be pretenders, not just the members of ruling dynasty, though members of ruling dynasty should lose loyalty if some other family character wins election.
Now you may wonder this isn't very different from a republic, but it is. It is elective monarchy.
- Nomadic - Theoretical. Used only by migratory tribes, it would be like Open succession but with stats mattering more than other factors, and more patricide and infighting between brothers.
These are just ideas. Please do post if you have any to add as well.
C - The Five Gender Laws
Gender laws are where the above succession laws filter and apply. Taking a leaf from CK2 and many other games, I think there can be five gender laws:
> Agnatic - Strictly males eligible for succession only. No matrilinial marriages allowed.
> Agnatic-Cognatic - Male preference, but women are eligible if there are no eligible men (sons, brothers, family members etc.). Should enable matrilinial marriage.
> (True) Cognatic - Full, equal succession rights for both males and females, anyone can succeed or be a pretender. Should allow both normal and matrilinial marriage like above.
> Enatic-Cognatic - Female preference, but men are eligible if there are no eligible women (like daughters, sisters, family members etc.). Should allow both marriage types like above.
> Enatic - Strictly females eligible for succession only. No patrilinial marriages allowed.
The last two were less historical, so they can either be made very restricted with some hard requirements, and/or limited to small realms. Or tied to that custom rule.
Meanwhile, tribes were generally a more egalitarian, so they already work as intended with Agnatic-Cognatic or true Cognatic in vanilla.
So in general, that covers all characters in the game, and infinitely better than the 3 laws we have right now.
D - Enabling laws in Republics and Tribes
Now, only monarchies have succession laws. But I think tribes can have some of them too.
Secondly, republics should have gender laws as well as long as they meet those high requirements (and pass the Senate vote). No succession laws for republics of course, they can instead get laws modifying term times or limits but that is an idea for another day.
E - Conclusion
If this can be put into the game, the result would be a fully fledged, flexible and dynamic system that allows a huge variety in succession laws, without limitations of legacy from an old outdated game. Which in turn would bring the game one more step towards being a feature-complete game like CK2 and not what it currently is.
If for some reason this isn't moddable however, then I'd make a big post on the suggestions forum once I've collected ideas from here.
So, what do you think? The general concept is nice already, but would this work as a mod?
I don't know if this is even moddable, but I do hope some modders will give it a try, and I'll try to learn about modding myself if possible.
So far, the game has only 4 succession laws. They are all straight from the old EU-Rome, so they are not very flexible. And the other problem is, there is too few of them.
I have a few concepts that I think will make this aspect of the game game far better than what it is. A much more dynamic, flexible system...if somehow they can be modded in at all.
A - Split the Succession Laws into two
The good thing about CK2 was that its succession law and gender law were two different things. Which means succession law wasn't automatically tied to gender like this game. You could have the standard Agnatic Primogeniture, but you could also have Cognatic and even Enatic Seniority. Or same with Elective, or Ultimogeniture or Gavelkind or anything you could want. It was a good system.
So Imperator Rome can also split succession laws into two separate laws -
1 - Succession Law proper, which decides how succession takes place and in which order.
2 - Gender Law, which decides who is eligible for succession law.
This separation will greatly enhance the control of player over their country's inheritance system. EU-Rome had the same issue as CK1 of rigid single-click laws, and CK2 fixed that. Same should be done here.
B - Add more types of Succession Laws
In Imperator we have only two real succession laws - primogeniture and seniority. But of course, more can be added, and CK2 is again the archetype example.
Here is the ones I have in mind so far, please tell me more about any laws you know that can be added to this list.
- Primogeniture - Eldest child succeeds, and if they die their eldest child succeeds. Brothers (i.e. 2nd and other sons of the ruler) only come after that.
- Ultimogeniture - Opposite of the above. Youngest child of the ruler succeeds, and their youngest child after them. Or their youngest brother if they die.
- Seniority - Succession is based on age. Eldest eligible member of the family succeeds, followed by the next eldest and so on.
- Open Succession - Kinda like CK2. The dynasty member with most prominence (or maybe popularity? stats? a mix of everything?) takes it all. Heavy penalties to loyalty of other pretenders, but less damage to legitimacy than normal. It is intended to create a powerful ruler and government at the cost of family issues.
- Gavelkind-esque - Theoretical. Now I know this is a bit anachronistic and feudalism isn't present here, but would it be possible to make all sons of ruler pretenders in equal rights, and divide all the ruler's personal money with them once they die?
- Tanistry/Eldership or such - Theoretical. Anachronistic again, but would it be possible to make it so that all family members of the ruling family are allowed to be pretenders on equal standing, and allow either just the ruling family members or all heads of all families to elect the next successor from the ruling family.
- Elective - Theoretical and very anachronistic. Heads of every family are given the power to elect the ruler. All can be pretenders, not just the members of ruling dynasty, though members of ruling dynasty should lose loyalty if some other family character wins election.
Now you may wonder this isn't very different from a republic, but it is. It is elective monarchy.
- Nomadic - Theoretical. Used only by migratory tribes, it would be like Open succession but with stats mattering more than other factors, and more patricide and infighting between brothers.
These are just ideas. Please do post if you have any to add as well.
C - The Five Gender Laws
Gender laws are where the above succession laws filter and apply. Taking a leaf from CK2 and many other games, I think there can be five gender laws:
> Agnatic - Strictly males eligible for succession only. No matrilinial marriages allowed.
> Agnatic-Cognatic - Male preference, but women are eligible if there are no eligible men (sons, brothers, family members etc.). Should enable matrilinial marriage.
> (True) Cognatic - Full, equal succession rights for both males and females, anyone can succeed or be a pretender. Should allow both normal and matrilinial marriage like above.
> Enatic-Cognatic - Female preference, but men are eligible if there are no eligible women (like daughters, sisters, family members etc.). Should allow both marriage types like above.
> Enatic - Strictly females eligible for succession only. No patrilinial marriages allowed.
The last two were less historical, so they can either be made very restricted with some hard requirements, and/or limited to small realms. Or tied to that custom rule.
Meanwhile, tribes were generally a more egalitarian, so they already work as intended with Agnatic-Cognatic or true Cognatic in vanilla.
So in general, that covers all characters in the game, and infinitely better than the 3 laws we have right now.
D - Enabling laws in Republics and Tribes
Now, only monarchies have succession laws. But I think tribes can have some of them too.
Secondly, republics should have gender laws as well as long as they meet those high requirements (and pass the Senate vote). No succession laws for republics of course, they can instead get laws modifying term times or limits but that is an idea for another day.
E - Conclusion
If this can be put into the game, the result would be a fully fledged, flexible and dynamic system that allows a huge variety in succession laws, without limitations of legacy from an old outdated game. Which in turn would bring the game one more step towards being a feature-complete game like CK2 and not what it currently is.
If for some reason this isn't moddable however, then I'd make a big post on the suggestions forum once I've collected ideas from here.
So, what do you think? The general concept is nice already, but would this work as a mod?
