If there's any changes to the combat in the future (1.06?), I hope there would be better balancing between doctrines.

[waterwong12]

Right now, it's just too OP. Even playing as China (who has tons of manpower to burn) in 1936, I just can't resist the temptation to abandon my own manpower doctrine in exchange for moblity. 100% GDE is just too good. And the research time in DH isn't really that bad even with the tech teams China has so it's no brainer to switch. Even on a Japanese messageboard (yup, DH has a solid fan base in Japan), they all say "Blitzkrieg all the way.".

On the other hand, manpower focus is underpowered, and it's ridiculous that the 1937 "upgrade" is actually a downgrade, As it's already bad GDE (50%) takes another hit, reduced to a meager43%. The only reason I would ever choose manpower is to roleplay.

Maybe the dev did it for balancing reason, but I think that takes away the fun of having different doctrines in the first place. If there's anything I think the orignal Hoi2 did better, it's the doctrines (anything else DH reigns supreme). It's also better than Hoi4 which is all about superior firepower. Going forward (maybe in 1.06 or 1.07?) it would be great if there's a rework of land doctrines, either by nerfing the moblity focus, or by buffing up the other focuses, or both.

 

[agent栁]

I reckon it's done to make game more historically accurate? So that early war Blitzkrieg dominates but as the game goes on Allied/USSR doctrine slowly catches up and eventually overtakes it? I seem to remember reading that somewhere, granted I could never get into DH Full.

Hilarious as it might be recently I've been hooked on HoI1 and its crazy how open-ended tech tree is there. You can unlock some models crazy early, with min-maxing you could get Panthers before Fall Weiss. Land Doctrine is basically one path, with couple offensive vs defensive choices. Also models don't really exist for land troops (aside tanks) and there's tons of flat boosts to units, so there's very little upgrading and lots of instant impact on the battlefield. While somewhat unbalanced and prone to exploits, HoI1 is just so damn fun! I would highly recommend anyone to play even just once for a change of pace.

I don't think DH Full will ever follow this path though, it's meant to be the focused on realism and authenticity no? Some sort of open-ended DH Battle Royale would be fun, with techs to boost all kinds of units, max 3-4 models per unit, and possibly ability to do all doctrine trees at once? That sort of thing. HoI4 introduced this amazing idea of builds to the series, specialized countries maxing some stats and sacrificing others, a crying shame almost everything else is absolute ass.

tl;dr take a break and play hoi1!!

 

[son of liberty]

As much as I love DH, the doctrines are something that HOI3 does better imo. I generally play with the given doctrines only to nerf myself and even when I decide against the Italian/British path, I go Superior firepower just because Mobility is too good. I would support a switch to a free-form type path like HOI3. Jmo, ymmv

 

[Blecky]

As much as I love DH, the doctrines are something that HOI3 does better imo. I generally play with the given doctrines only to nerf myself and even when I decide against the Italian/British path, I go Superior firepower just because Mobility is too good. I would support a switch to a free-form type path like HOI3. Jmo, ymmv

Which is also implemented in AoD/CORE mod. Tech team specialisations give incentives to prefer certain doctrines, but you are not locked out from any of them.

 

[son of liberty]

Which is also implemented in AoD/CORE mod. Tech team specialisations give incentives to prefer certain doctrines, but you are not locked out from any of them.

DH doesn't lock you out either. You can easily abandon the crappy doctrine path and choose any other. Certain mods give the player the choice of paths and matching teams for those choices. KR is famous for that. In some of my old personal mods, I did the same.

 

[Blecky]

DH doesn't lock you out either. You can easily abandon the crappy doctrine path and choose any other. Certain mods give the player the choice of paths and matching teams for those choices. KR is famous for that. In some of my old personal mods, I did the same.

Yep, but you cannot choose a tech from another doctrine while staying in "yours".

 

[son of liberty]

Yep, but you cannot choose a tech from another doctrine while staying in "yours".

That's true. Does AoD allow that? It has been a long time but I don't remember it

 

[Blecky]

That's true. Does AoD allow that? It has been a long time but I don't remember it

I had to look it up myself. No, the vanilla version of AoD has the classic doctrine choice.

 

[son of liberty]

I had to look it up myself. No, the vanilla version of AoD has the classic doctrine choice.

That's what I thought. Thanks for checking

 

[Pasha]

I had to look it up myself. No, the vanilla version of AoD has the classic doctrine choice.

Maybe you were thinking of Irion Cross? I've never been able to get it to work since it's been discontinued, but my understanding is that it has an open-ended tech tree.

 

[Blecky]

Maybe you were thinking of Irion Cross? I've never been able to get it to work since it's been discontinued, but my understanding is that it has an open-ended tech tree.

No, I was talking about the CORE mod for AoD. There you have different doctrines (e.g. Movement D., Defence D., ...) and each has several techs. But chosing the Movement Doctrine does not prevent you from taking the Defence Doctrine and one of its techs. As I said, the only limiter is the specialisation of your tech team(s). I´m still playing that mod, btw.

 

[waterwong12]

As much as I love DH, the doctrines are something that HOI3 does better imo. I generally play with the given doctrines only to nerf myself and even when I decide against the Italian/British path, I go Superior firepower just because Mobility is too good. I would support a switch to a free-form type path like HOI3. Jmo, ymmv

I did that too as Nat China. Geez that's brutal (but rewarding) in the 1936 scenario even on normal. I would say it's harder than using Mobile/light infantry on hard. Manpower focus is trash, especially pre-1942, I can't imagine surviving the onslaught of the Japanese on very hard with it. (the war broke out in 1937...)
That said, I do enjoy using Grangxi with Mobile to steamroll Nat China and then Japan, though I cheated a little bit by releasing puppet as China at the start of the game and ticking "everyone can declare war".

 

[waterwong12]

No, I was talking about the CORE mod for AoD. There you have different doctrines (e.g. Movement D., Defence D., ...) and each has several techs. But chosing the Movement Doctrine does not prevent you from taking the Defence Doctrine and one of its techs. As I said, the only limiter is the specialisation of your tech team(s). I´m still playing that mod, btw.

Does CORE only work on earlier version of the game? I tried and the AI was weird and then I stopped playing.

 

[Lord Rommel]

I like the doctrin choice.
When there are Balance problems i would prefer a stats based rework.
For me the doctrines are adding a lot of flavour. I see why players will drop a "bad doctrine" in the first place.

So the question is what are aiming for? Should any doctrine work on the same level or should a doctrine favour a certain playstyle? E.g. should manpower focus make infantry better compared to other doctrines?

Furthermore, i think AI is the problem. Japan always has problems with China. So from my point of view any China game experience is hampered by the japanese AI and its ability to create pressure.

 

[son of liberty]

I like the doctrin choice.
When there are Balance problems i would prefer a stats based rework.
For me the doctrines are adding a lot of flavour. I see why players will drop a "bad doctrine" in the first place.

So the question is what are aiming for? Should any doctrine work on the same level or should a doctrine favour a certain playstyle? E.g. should manpower focus make infantry better compared to other doctrines?

Furthermore, i think AI is the problem. Japan always has problems with China. So from my point of view any China game experience is hampered by the japanese AI and its ability to create pressure.

Some doctrines might create "flavor" but some doctrines are just superior to others. Just because I can annex the world with Italy and their starting doctrines doesn't mean they are any good; it just means the AI needs work.
Imo, the problem with the doctrines as they are is that they were designed to reflect the performance of the nations they were assigned to. The Italians under performed in WW2, and their doctrinal path is designed with that in mind imo. Superior firepower does give a "flavor" to the US playstyle but only a rich and heavily industrialized nation can really take advantage of the full benefits of the doctrine imo. Mobility should have the same restrictions but doesn't any nation rich or poor can benefit from mobility. That is why I like hoi3 doctrines. Infantry doctrines for Infantry, special warfare doctrines for marines/paratroopers/mountaineers etc...