If you would like to make a better game(M:I 3, but anyway

[Carolus Rex]

If anyone has ever played Shogun: Total War
they should know what the heck I am talking about.
Shogun is quite similar to Eu, with diplomacy and all that, but in Shogun you can command the army in the battle live.
Just like Starcraft or C&C.
You can also choose to watch the battle from a God view, like in EU.
If Paradox would include this in the next(hopefully) EU I for one would be amazed.

I am not trying talk down EU at any point here. It is one of the best games I have ever played, if not the best, it is for sure the most addictive.
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It is time to kick ass and chew bubblegum and I'm all outta gum!

 

[unmerged(194)]

This has already been discussed, probably in the OT forum I think. I believe the general consensus was that including tactical battles would extend the game ridiculously. I believe it is hard to mix strategic and tactical forms effectively: for example, the tactical combat in MOO2 adds little to the game IMHO, and the strategic aspects of Shogun are sadly thin (perhaps my greatest disappointment of the game year). Probably the best balance I think I've ever seen would be Lords Of The Realm 2. Now there was a game. Nothing like pouring boiling oil on your enemy . . . unfortunately I can't get it to run on my new PC. I try every so often, only to fail and chew the edge of the desk in frustration.

 

[Carolus Rex]

Well, it was just a thought.
EU is a great game and, like you say it is probably not good for the game, stretching it out and making it ridiculously long.
It is a huge enough game anyway.
But if someone outthere could make it work,
than it would be pretty awesome.
Dont you think?
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It is time to kick ass and chew bubblegum and I'm all outta gum!

 

[unmerged(604)]

Jas
I agree completely. More time spent on tactical battles means less on strategy as Shogun seemed to prove. Very weak strategic element.
Lords of the Realm2 was and is a great game and still in my top five games of all time. If it had some more direct historical content it would have been perfect.

 

[unmerged(194)]

Originally posted by Arinvald:
Lords of the Realm2 was and is a great game [...] If it had some more direct historical content it would have been perfect.

Agreed: 'The Knight', 'The Baron' are all very well but much too generic, and there's no opportunity to reenact any worthwhile scenarios.

Recently I acquired a copy of a game I had been meaning to play for a long (long, long) time - Kingmaker - very clunky ancient DOS game which gets boring after a while but the historical relevance is nicely done.

 

[unmerged(604)]

I picked that up years ago. I was really hoping Avalon Hill would really get into making computer games. With their catalog of games there should have been some gems in there. But alas. Kingmaker was an ok computer game but I did get bored with it rather quickly.

 

[unmerged(590)]

Avalon Hill did get into computer gaming, but too late. I believe Cave Wars was one of their few excellent games that wasn't based on a boardgame.

From what I gathered, Avalon Hill's final death rattle was the investment of millions of dollars into a gaming magazine for girls. A good idea mayhaps, but alas, not economically viable.

The problem with Kingmaker was that it was too faithful to the boardgame, and thus inherited the card system, which meant that you either won or lost a battle, but you never recieved casualties.

 

[unmerged(580)]

I think Avalon Hill's Empires in Arms would be a great conversion scenario for EU. Many aspects of EU were copied from it anyway.

 

[unmerged(548)]

Originally posted by Hansmeister:
I think Avalon Hill's Empires in Arms would be a great conversion scenario for EU. Many aspects of EU were copied from it anyway.

If one should do a CG of EiA one should probably use the vastly superior redone Empires in Harm (www.empiresinharm.com).

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/ Stefan Huszics

 

[unmerged(543)]

Replying to original topic: Well, IMHO the BG focusses of keeping the national state intact while expanding the influential power of the nation. The CG focuses on conquering the world. This needs to be fixed, especially when anybody can win the game on normal level first time. Thus _less_ military focus, and more financial and political focus.

 

[unmerged(258)]

If adding tactical command would greatly expand the game (as I assume it would), it might help to at least be able to select the tactics your forces will use in the battle (a la EiA, actually). Would at a little more to the battles and should be relatively easy to implement (in EU2, perhaps).

 

[unmerged(9)]

I think Tom:s suggestion is the most viable. Choosing tactics is a great idea.

Shogun btw, while it had excellent tactical AI it had lousy strategic AI. For those who think EU could be better in that dept. .

I of course still think EUII should have much better AI, it's one of the hardest things to improve but it would still add alot to the game. Plus I think empires should have a better chance of noticing dangerous expansions.

Marcus

 

[unmerged(548)]

'Choosing tactics is a great idea.'

Ehmmm ...
You have noticed that this is a RTS game haven't you ??
I shure as hell wouldn't like to get 4-5 'Choose a battle tactic' windows open up every 30seconds during wars in multiplayer (no pause ...) games. Let me assure you that it's stressfull enough as it is.
If it would have been a turnbased game I would have been all for it, but it's not so drop it becourse it will never be implemented (for reasons of playability).


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/ Stefan Huszics

 

[unmerged(258)]

It could be an option turned on or off at game start. As it is, you can choose to get a pop-up box notifying you of each battle (or not) currently. It could be added the same way.

Having said that, it's more something on the wishlist for the next version as I doubt it could be implemented now without some major rewriting of the combat code ... ?

 

[unmerged(9)]

Stefan,

It's really not that impossible to implement. In SEIV you get to choose a typical tactic for your armies, noone says it has to be decided all the time. You could even have different tactics for different nations(which would be quite realistic)

Marcus

 

[unmerged(548)]

'You could even have different tactics for different nations(which would be quite realistic)'

Well I trust the intrinsic leaders to automatically have the ability & knowledge to choose the best tactics for the given battle at the best of their capability vs the opponent at hand. That's what the leaders are there for.
For you (the king ?) to suddenly supercede the generals on location and decide the on the battlefield tactics would be extreemly UNREALISTIC !!!
Remember that sending messages between the capital & and army could take days or even months (no radio or satelites ...) if over seas. Entire wars could be over by the time your order for an outflank or countercharge reached the place of (where once) the battle stood.
The only time where it could be remotely realistic is for battles lead by your monark, but to spend days of programmer time for this rare event alone to me seems quite pointless.


'... you can choose to get a pop-up box notifying you of each battle (or not) currently. It could be added the same way.'

If it is a decesive part of the battles, you won't be able to just choose to ignore it.
If the feature is not of a decesive nature to the battles, why bother including it ? It would just be something that gives an illusion of controll that people would play with for like 2 hours and then turn off for good.


Finaly I would like to say:
I do aggree that this would be a FUN thing to include that even I would enjoy if it where not for this beeing a RTS game. But since your on the subject of realism, however, it should definitly be left out...

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/ Stefan Huszics

 

[Hartmann]

Hmmm, better leave it out. We already have sooo much tactical games, don´t we?

Hartmann

 

[Carolus Rex]

Yeah yeah...but wouldnt it be quite cool if polish hussars charged against Swedish infantry and seeing the old, not-very-up-2-date polish cavallery being smashed to pieces by the Swedish cannons and the left overs speared by the pikesmen!!!(luv it luv it!!)
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I dont know but I've been told eskimoe pu***s are mighty cold!