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First of all, thank you so much for all of your hard work. I downloaded 2.2c from Europa Ascendant a couple of days ago. It is outstanding.

Just one request:)though...Would you please give Pommerania at least one general please? Life is hard enough on my lads without a leader, even if for a short time period.

Thanks much,
Doc
 
Originally posted by Viking


China quickly researches up to level 11 land tech and "explores" dai viet and ayutthaya. One of the reasons I want them removed.

Yupp, China seems to be amasingly good at researching...

The Moghuls, witch also ownes a rich COT, never keeps up like the Chinese. I think this is weird because IMO China and the Moghuls is quite comparable. Or are they not...?

There is two solutions IMHO:

1.Have Paradox fix the events

2.Make Dai-Viet on of the major players when you start a ICG.
 
There are two problems with China in EU:

1) They research far too quickly.
2) They tend to gobble up all of their neighbors (except Japan, for some reason.)

The root cause is that China is far too rich and populous while not being braindead enough. We need to find ways to counteract this.

I can think of the following fixes:

1) Give China a custom ai file with warmongering set to 0 to somewhat lessen the chance of military annexations.
2) Wrack China with hosts of negative events.
3) Reduce the abilities of Chinese monarchs.
4) Drastically reduce the population and income of the "inner" Chinese provinces.
5) Set the state religion of Dai Viet, Auytthaya and Korea to something other than pagan to prevent diplo-annexation.

The problem is that 3, 4 and 5 are totally unhistorical, as is probably 2...

I don't want to drop the SE Asian smaller states, so what do you think, dear forum brothers? :D
 
2) Wrack China with hosts of negative events.

I´m not an expert on Chinese history, but the Manchu take over of China was not peaceful - this could be China´s Time of Troubles. Or can you cause a civil war with the Events file?

Also, one could put some Chinese CB´s on Siberian provinces which should precipitate a war against the Russians when they get there (as happened for real).

Does Japan have CB´s on China´s Korean provinces? Some nice Nippon - China conflicts could slow their growth.

/Vandelay
 
Originally posted by Doomdark
There are two problems with China in EU:

1) They research far too quickly.
2) They tend to gobble up all of their neighbors (except Japan, for some reason.)

The root cause is that China is far too rich and populous while not being braindead enough. We need to find ways to counteract this.

I can think of the following fixes:

1) Give China a custom ai file with warmongering set to 0 to somewhat lessen the chance of military annexations.
2) Wrack China with hosts of negative events.
3) Reduce the abilities of Chinese monarchs.
4) Drastically reduce the population and income of the "inner" Chinese provinces.
5) Set the state religion of Dai Viet, Auytthaya and Korea to something other than pagan to prevent diplo-annexation.

The problem is that 3, 4 and 5 are totally unhistorical, as is probably 2...

I don't want to drop the SE Asian smaller states, so what do you think, dear forum brothers? :D

Seeing the Chinese were isolationists not very interested in expanding I don't see a problem with warmongering set to 0. OR reducing diplo skills of Chinese monarchs. They shouldn't be actively trying to diploannex and that's what the skill is for. they have a hoist of events alreday to decrease relations. Getting diplo skill down (not the others which aren't that important anyway in such a vast country) should make their gifts less succesful.

China had a few bad events and does have whoel hoist alreday as it is. The thing is to get them to work ;)

4) I wouldn't try before all else fails.

5) should be the last resort before trying 4) :D It'd put a definite stop to it. Or get rid of common borders (which prolly saves Japan quite ab it too)
 
Originally posted by Vandelay


I´m not an expert on Chinese history, but the Manchu take over of China was not peaceful - this could be China´s Time of Troubles. Or can you cause a civil war with the Events file?

Also, one could put some Chinese CB´s on Siberian provinces which should precipitate a war against the Russians when they get there (as happened for real).

Does Japan have CB´s on China´s Korean provinces? Some nice Nippon - China conflicts could slow their growth.

/Vandelay

Wouldn't the Chinese win and expand even more ? :D
 
so what do you think, dear forum brothers?
Doomdark, maybe it is possible to increase their research costs so that they will not reach level 11 in land tech too quickly.

And a question - is it possible to increase maintenance cost per 1000 armymen? If yes, it could be also a solution to decrease their research rate.
 
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Originally posted by Vandelay


IAlso, one could put some Chinese CB´s on Siberian provinces which should precipitate a war against the Russians when they get there (as happened for real).

/Vandelay

Do'nt do this!!!! :eek: :eek:

Russia is in deep enough shit as it is.... :(


BiB's comments is more like it, and perhaps a few uprising events... :D But then there is the problem with events....:( :( :(

Btw: PARADOX, PLEASE FIX THE EVENTS!!!!
 
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Wouldn't the Chinese win and expand even more ?

I don´t know. Would AI China be able to mount a successful amfibiuous attack on Nippon? Considering the ease with which AI France invades AI England they probably would.

From my small understanding of Chinese history China actually did force the Russians out of the Amur valley in the late 1600´s - so a war between China and Russia ending in a Chinese win is not without historical merit. This might hurt the Russian AI too much though.

Historian Jeremy Black charcterizes China as an expansionist land power during the Manchu area (Siberia, Djungaria, Xinjiang, Tibet were all conquered in this era) in bright contrast to their maritime isolationism. Making China extremely difficult to invade while impeding any exapnsion into Nippon, Dai Viet and Ayutthaya might be impossible in the EU enhgine?

/Vandelay
 
I have seen china take over NIP more then once. Not sure how often it happens but it does.

:cool:
ErrantOne
 
I have seen china take over NIP more then once. Not sure how often it happens but it does.

Military annexation? I´ve never seen this.

However if Nippon gets a random explorer (they almost always do if you play random events) and set up a tradepost bordering on China they almost always get diplo-annexed.

Maybe we should just put in more relation dropping events for China?

/Vandelay
 
I like the idea of dropping the warmonger value to zero and to reduce the diplo values of the monarchs.

The conflicts with the Russians could be (crudely) handled by putting a temporary CB agains Russia for the late 1600s.
 
You could always add Korea in the whole thing, to delay or maybe even stop the whole diplo-annex. And you could heighten Nippon and Korea's war monger value and lower china/korea/nippon's relations so that there's a better chance of war and land expansion rather than china diplo-annexing everyone.
 
State,

I agree. Drop China's aggrssiveness to 0. I would also agree that given China's isolationist policies, dropping the diplomatic skills of their monarch to 2-3 would be a historical, and reasonably effective way, to stop their annexations in the East.

Ok, here's my beef of the day. Please someone give us a rationale explanation why the US does not exist as a revolter with a significant nationalism event?

The excuse I have heard is, "There is no reason to be sure that England will rule those provinces." Well, there's no reason to assume that Spain will be ruling the Spanish Netherlands either--but there is no avoiding the Dutch Nationalism event.

It's historical, it should happen. There's a flag already assigned for the US if it comes into being. How hard would it be to make a nationalism event for them?
 
The reason why I think the U.S. doesn't revolt like the Netherlands is because the Netherlands is scripted to revolt.

And your right. There is no fact that Spain will be ruling the Netherlands when it does. But I've played it where I took over the Netherlands as England and they STILL revolted against me.

As for America. There's no telling who will rules the colonies when the big countries start colonizing. Heck. For all anyone knows, Helveta could expand to the edge of France and colonize. heh.
 
Originally posted by shawng1
State,

I agree. Drop China's aggrssiveness to 0. I would also agree that given China's isolationist policies, dropping the diplomatic skills of their monarch to 2-3 would be a historical, and reasonably effective way, to stop their annexations in the East.

Ok, here's my beef of the day. Please someone give us a rationale explanation why the US does not exist as a revolter with a significant nationalism event?

The excuse I have heard is, "There is no reason to be sure that England will rule those provinces." Well, there's no reason to assume that Spain will be ruling the Spanish Netherlands either--but there is no avoiding the Dutch Nationalism event.

It's historical, it should happen. There's a flag already assigned for the US if it comes into being. How hard would it be to make a nationalism event for them?


Why should the USA get a special rebellion event ? Their huge impact on history in the timespan 1492-1792 ? :D

Holland has such a huge rate of influence on Europe in that span that without them it is near impossible to imagine Europe or the world. The USA coming into existance 10 years earlier or 20 years later hardly has much impact or makes a huge difference.

If such huge rebellion rates should be added, I can think of a few other countries who warrant it more during this span of history.

If England gets annexed by France, it'll have 3% revolt risk. Which is quite low. Why should the US have more then ? If China gets annexed it'll be a meagre 3%. If Japan ...
 
Mughal colonialism

In my opinion the Mughals should get no colonists, but should instead begin the game much larger, perhaps the 1600 borders where they controlled all of northern India. http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/MUGHAL/MUGHMAP.HTM Although being so large in 1492 is unhistorical, it is far more realistic and historically accurate in the long run. The current situation results in Mughal trading posts and small colonies all throughout India, not very realistic or historical at all.
 
Ditto Vandelay

From my small understanding of Chinese history China actually did force the Russians out of the Amur valley in the late 1600´s - so a war between China and Russia ending in a Chinese win is not without historical merit. This might hurt the Russian AI too much though.

While the Ming Dynasty was supposedly inward looking, the Celestial Empire did not rest with respect to manipulating tributary states (any state on its borders). China was an expansionist power during the period of 1650-end game (Min and Manchu eras). They added Manchuria, Mongolia, Zungharia, Tibet and Formosa from the late 1600's-1700's and subsequently, Turkestan. They had considerable influence over Nepal, Burma, and Annam. Korea was a tributary state. They also defeated a Dutch squdron in the South China Sea during this time, so they weren't easy pickin's.

Yet, when they did encounter European powers post 1800, they were less resilient and though not easily bullied, they were forcibly overwhelmed. Russia was one of the great victors in the alledged "unequal treaties" that ensued and for which China is still seeking redress.

So, it seems hard choices have to be made. Let China remain a regional hegemon or neuter it so that Russia can realize its expansionist fate. Which is the lesser harm to historical fidelity?
 
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