IGC 2.3 Discussion

[State Machine]

Iroquois

Both the for and against arguments are good. From a purist standpoint, I'm inclined to think that if you have the Iroquois, then you should have the Huron, the Alqonquin, the Mississippi mound cultures, etc. Particularly the Huron and the Alqonquin. EU doesn't have a mechanism for handling local populace, which might be the ideal way of handling situations like this (and pretty much all other colonzied places on the globe).

If they are eliminated, the provinces they occupy (and a few more, too) should be made very unfriendly to colonists (high number of aggressive locals, and low, low, low attrition level).

If they are to be kept, it would be nice to expand their territory and have them stand in smybolically for local populace, everywhere, but there is that pesky human player getting an easy annexation, problem. I've noticed that the ai "abuses" the ability to colonize the Great Lakes, and in fact seems to prefer it to the coastline in many cases - a greatly expanded Iroquois might counter this.

I prefer elimination if it can be shown to be tougher to both ai and human.

But, USA...

Shawng1 presents a nifty way of presenting problems to colonists in the area via the Iroquois. Perhaps this could be generalized to the Iroquois disliking everyone.

As an aside, my USA suggestion should include Spain and the Netherlands in CB's against England, as they did DoW England, and before France did, I believe.

 

[unmerged(4007)]

State,

I'm for leaving the Iro from an aesthetic point, and from the standpoint that I think if we could boost their aggressiveness/territory a little, and add some of the ideas we've suggested (glad you liked mine state ) it would make the game a little more challenging in regards to NA. Honestly marching around a troop of soldiers wiping out native popuulations usually is easier for me (or certainly no harder) than the war vs the Iros NOW. I don't see how making them more unfriendly would matter--since most of us embark on cleansing efforts anytime Native aggressiveness hits "medium."

Also, I think we've added enough to the SE already. If minor tinkering to the nations already present cannot keep some of our dreaded SE Asia events from happening, I think its time to chalk it up to the engine and let it go. A Khmer regime is not terribly historical, doesn't really interest me too much (esp. after adding Korea), and seems to me to be nothing more than a prime target to get swallowed by someone else. All to avoid our fixation with Mekong.

To which I say, what does that accomplish--we'll simply move the CoT to another nearby wealthy province and accomplish the same thing. If we're THAT concerned about it (which I personally am not), just let it be part of Dai Viet. That's not gruesomely ahistorical anyway.

IMHO, the idea of a NA landmass consisting of nothing but the restless natives in their individual provinces is a bit dry and unenticing.

Just my 2c, adjusted many times for inflation.

 

[unmerged(4283)]

First a great thank you Doomdark, i love playing the IGC's , since i have the game. You could even tweak zhe portugese more as for that he will do something serious as the country is a no danger to anyone at all.
Maybe some unrest for reformed should be added to helvetia to reflect their attention to the religion as mostley Spain , France or Austria conquer this land. Also the leaders for some german minore (why not at least the european minors) should be added(or at leats be optional).

Do you have any idea of how you can contol the countries that attack you if you badboy value is very high. As always( i love to play minor's such as Prusia) but to expanded at get to at developing level you need to conquer a few minor states , after that the expantion is well hindered, are their any rules for the AI do decide wich one will attck you or is it just randomly.

Thanx a lot for your innovations and time and the great pleasure you gave us with the IGC's.

Comix

 

[Dagfinn]

Doomdark

About the weak Russian behaviour, I think you should weake the Polish parralell to strenghtening the russians. Poland is doing VERY well in my three HO games with 2.3beta, while Russia has serious problems with getting past the Golden horde (GH).

When GH is down to Uralsk and Volgograd, the russians always goes after Volgograd and ends the war with taking imdemnities. This has happened repetedly in my OH Games.

Poland, well they seems to have troubel loosing ANY province, they rather expands...

Btw1, wars between Persia-Moghuls and Persia Hyderabad is very frequent. IMHO Persian and Moghul colonization is to strong, or their *.ai files should perhaps be limited a bit

Btw2, then english ai seems to do rather well latly...

 

[Doomdark]

relations improve? Do they? I have seen relations systematically deteriorate despite gifts, alliances, and marriages. Is there some "toggle" in a file we do not know about that causes a "relation regression"?

It seems that relations slowly improve between most AI-controlled nations. This is especially true in vassal-overlord cases; perhaps due to gifts from the overlord. In the case of Denmark-Sweden this is especially annyoing.

 

[Dagfinn]

Forts in Spanish colonies

In the IGC+ thread there is mentioned the lack of forts in Spanish colonies. Well I just wanted to report that in my three last OH games this has been my experience as well... England also has a tendency to not build forts, but they atleast build some.

Two games with chaos hurts and one game with normal tax. Funnily enough Spain did annex the Incas in these three games.

 

[State Machine]

Dagfinn

Was this the regular IGC?

This was noticed in IGC+ testing, but is not an IGC+ issue, per se. The affect is worse with IGC+. Tax stability options like Chaos Hurts remove income from countries - fortification of colonies seems to be a "luxury", so there is less fortification.

 

[BiB]

Would it be an issue since 1.09 ? When AI countries were made to focus a lot more on tech ? So the forts suffer ?

 

[Mohe]

Two comments on Portugal and weird behavior

The improved portugese colonial dynamism is a bit over the top, I recently tried out Portugal and I ended up wasting colonists because I couldn't use them fast enough. There is not a single vacant province on my entire map because Portugal has aslmost all of them.

But far weirder is something I have never seen before and I even restarted to see if I could get this to repeat. with +3 stability and no wars in or around the 1580s Portugal starts to have a giant revolution where it spontaneously converts to Protestantism. This is without a single non catholic or counter reform catholic province (including Tangiers, though in the second game Tangier stayed Sunni) The first time this occured I said Ohh well that's a new one I guess some Braganza had some wacky ideas. I quickly converted back to catholicism at a strange cost of 6 (yes 6) stability points and began my slow recovery of my stability. So far this was the only thing to put a crimp in my relentless expansion. But no sooner had I got it back up to +1 than the whiole debacle occured again and once more Portugal becomes protestant. Doing so with out the presence of a single protestant province (I didn't even get the nice cash windfall of dissolving the monastaries)

Ther fact that I managed to replicate this in another game is why I begin to suspect it is a new bug. The only explanation I can think of is that some sort of time of troubles (unnanounced btw though I checked and all my message settings were correct) occured and this instantly topple the state resulting in a sudden burst of heretofor unknown enthusiasm for Luther in Lisbon.

 

[BiB]

Any colonial nation can claim the whole world when played by a human. Just look at how the ai wastes its settlers

U wouldn't happen to have random events on ?

 

[Mohe]

I know any player can take over the world, but this was much much better than I have ever done before. BTW this is on chaos maims and hardest difficulty levels.

And yes I did have random events on, but why would this occur at the same time arround 1581 in two seperate games, and with the same result that as soon as stability reached +1 it happened all over again and this with no protestant provinces?

 

[Savant]

It's all tax-stab overkill

I know any player can take over the world, but this was much much better than I have ever done before. BTW this is on chaos maims and hardest difficulty levels.

again. The AI cannot deal with that tax_stab setting (place a BIG period here)

As a rule, low tax-stabs further advantage the human player. Human players can adjust but the AI is lost as to what to do. I also think using the human player as a reference for ease/difficulty of play is not appropriate. I think the observations should be made on AI-generated behavior. A human player as The Knights can reproduce the Byzantine Empire during the Comnenus regime, but that is so remote a possibility for the AI as to by well-nigh impossible.

I am always torn between hands-on and hands-off games because I like the role of the grey eminence yet I also like to observe more accurate what-ifs. I am still in my hands-on mode but will switch to HO (maybe gladly) when the non-beta 2.3 ships. In the meantime, I am enjoying actually playing the game, usually as some back-water RotW minor so I can get a leg up on 2.3 AI behavior.

 

[Savant]

Doomie,

on the D_S_R relations issue, may it be possible to include a relationship-worsening event upon Sweden's cancelling vassalage to Denmark?

I am not up to speed on the event editing, but I recall Hartmann doing something of the sort several times, though I don't know how successful he was.

 

[Chema_Cagi]

Spain/Turkey CB shields in North Africa

It was mentioned some time ago in another thread.¿What about including some (or many) CB shields for Spain and Turkey in Tunisia and Algiers? In EU or IGC it's very rare to see any wars between Spain and Turkey, and it was a hot issue at this time...
Furthermore, I don't know about turkish historical intentions, but North Africa was a constant objective for spanish rulers of these times; there were several expeditions sent to both Algiers and Tunisia.

 

[Savant]

Good.. yes, Chema that is an oversight!

Not only Turks but also other N. African states (before Turkish control) fought Spain and Spain would hold portions of coastline off an on (under Charles V there was a lot of that). Also, those N African provinces came under the sway of Turkey, partly by peaceful annexation (such as Algeria under Barbarossa) and others not so peacefully.

 

[State Machine]

Chema_cagi

Excellent thoughts!

Also, and I'm not sure if it fits the EU time period, but did not the N. African countries (corsairs) make a habit of attacking, Sicily, Naples, Sardinia, Corsica, and so on?

There are pirates in the Mediterranean, but they don't really do anything. I'm suggesting CB's be given N. African countries against appropriate European countries (or provinces).

 

[Zagys]

Re: Two comments on Portugal and weird behavior

Originally posted by John Meixner
The improved portugese colonial dynamism is a bit over the top, I recently tried out Portugal and I ended up wasting colonists because I couldn't use them fast enough. There is not a single vacant province on my entire map because Portugal has aslmost all of them.

I agree. The problem with Portugal is a shortage of money, not colonists. I don't see how increasing their already high colonial dynamism is going to solve the problem. Furthermore, Portugal should certainly not get more colonists than Spain.

 

[Dagfinn]

Re: Dagfinn

Originally posted by State Machine
Was this the regular IGC?

This was noticed in IGC+ testing, but is not an IGC+ issue, per se. The affect is worse with IGC+. Tax stability options like Chaos Hurts remove income from countries - fortification of colonies seems to be a "luxury", so there is less fortification.

It was in regular IGC. I'v seen it both in Normal tax and Chaos hurts tax settings...

 

[unmerged(3605)]

Originally posted by shawng1
If they are, it serves to increase English discomfort in the New World with the natives (historical event) and increases the likelihood that the English may lose some NW provinces on the Eastern seaboard and trigger the Independence Revolt, thus satisfying some of our desire to see the US come into being.

I would just walk in and thump 'em.

 

[BiB]

Re: Re: Two comments on Portugal and weird behavior

Originally posted by Zagys


I agree. The problem with Portugal is a shortage of money, not colonists. I don't see how increasing their already high colonial dynamism is going to solve the problem. Furthermore, Portugal should certainly not get more colonists than Spain.

As I said before