impossible to make mugah's; no wonder ai can never do it either

[unmerged(15247)]

Because owning Samarkand (/Transoxiana) is a fundamental stumbling block for the formation of the Mughal Empire. India was the secondary prize that Babur settled for when he couldn't hold onto what he really wanted. If he'd kept Samarkand it is likely that he would have followed Timur's model and thus the Mughal Empire would not be formed.

That said, Lord Grave, I guess it could be alright to give the players a choice. It is sort of odd to give up Samarkand but if one wants to be the Mughals...

The fundamental issue here is that it really isn't historical for the Timurids => Mughals but we need to have the option for the player. Since that's the goal, then yea, giving up Samarkand to gain India could make since to me. I'll re-script the sequence this weekend.

sorry gabron but , we can come with lots of "fundamental" issues regarding various "ifs", and will just become way too complex no? i mean after all this is a flawed game that follows algorithms, so again i find myself against an arguments that is a "flavour" one. i am not saying you are not right, very likelly that the HISTORY of the region it is as you say it is, i am sure people researched it well.(i am a history buff myself, however not much for that area). but here i see a clear case where the gameplay will suffer. i fully agree to keep game as much as possible historical, those are the mods merits; but going "too much" might become something playable only for its creators if applyed in detail wayyyy too much.

i will not bring furthure arguments since my issue is NOT about beeing right or wrong as much as about game playing wich in the end is the first and foremost incentive for anyone to start the gc... or otherwise will become an even more of a "close circuit" one(it is already so), if players constantlly have to hit events with NO CHOICES, no matter how hard or easy those might or COULD be...

 

[unmerged(15247)]

You're welcome to conquer all of Central Asia. Just don't expect cores.

Most likely scenario is that Babur conquers a la Timur and then upon his death a weak son could see the empire go up in flames.

errr...soryy again but you make no sense here so WHY would there exist a "mugah" , nicely done, events file etc, if the player can NOT access them, becouse some "if" issue with something so trivial in the end, since all comes down to game play issues...

"Most likely " that there could be 1001 possibilities for ottos never to take constantinople then

 

[unmerged(40707)]

my settings are always very hard and lowest ai agressivness, of course.

Recommended aggressiveness level is weakling.

I do agree we could give a chance to a player to form Mughal Empire under "positive" conditions.

We changed the way Kingdom of Lotharingia can form for a player at 100% chance under in-game "reachable" conditions and actions of the player. We could use the same reasoning here.

 

[Canenald]

We changed the way Kingdom of Lotharingia can form for a player at 100% chance under in-game "reachable" conditions and actions of the player. We could use the same reasoning here.

Are you saying that there is now a tag for Kingdom of Lotharingia? When I got the crown with Burgundy a couple of versions ago I only got a CoA and flag change.

Speaking of performance of formed Asian empires, I played a lot of AGCEEP games recently and I usually saw Mughals formed and Safavids peforming very well. I one game the Safavids conquered the whole central Asia and northwestern India and were invading China and taking small bites off it every 5-10 years.

I was wondering if some kind of online questionnaire about AGCEEP games would be useful? It could be filled in and submitted by fans of AGCEEP who want to help with development of the mod. I could make this easily in PHP and any database engine. Only the hosting would be a problem.

 

[unmerged(40707)]

Are you saying that there is now a tag for Kingdom of Lotharingia? When I got the crown with Burgundy a couple of versions ago I only got a CoA and flag change.

There is no tag change involved, only conditions in events for the flagname change.

I was wondering if some kind of online questionnaire about AGCEEP games would be useful? It could be filled in and submitted by fans of AGCEEP who want to help with development of the mod. I could make this easily in PHP and any database engine. Only the hosting would be a problem.

AGCEEP web site could be used but what do you mean with this questionnaire?
We already have Paradox forum for any question. Please explain.

 

[unmerged(15247)]

Recommended aggressiveness level is weakling.

that is exactly what i meant, just could not remember the "name" at that moment

 

[unmerged(40707)]

But weakling is not the lowest. Lowest is coward.

 

[Garbon]

I was wondering if some kind of online questionnaire about AGCEEP games would be useful? It could be filled in and submitted by fans of AGCEEP who want to help with development of the mod. I could make this easily in PHP and any database engine. Only the hosting would be a problem.

Yes, although often people's self-reports are pretty bad. People tend to get very focused on an occurrence they saw in one game. So while better than no information it but conclusions would certainly need to be taken with caution.

 

[unmerged(15247)]

Yes, although often people's self-reports are pretty bad. People tend to get very focused on an occurrence they saw in one game. So while better than no information it but conclusions would certainly need to be taken with caution.

correct me if i am wrong but that sounds more as "we know better"

"People tend to get very focused on an occurrence they saw in one game"
yyyycckkkkkkksssssss....

 

[unmerged(37381)]

You could just open the cheat box, type event xxxx and press enter.

 

[Garbon]

correct me if i am wrong but that sounds more as "we know better"

"People tend to get very focused on an occurrence they saw in one game"
yyyycckkkkkkksssssss....

Not in the least. It's just been the cae over the last 5 years that often you ask people to quantify things, the amount of cases that they base things on are actually nominally small.

 

[Canenald]

I apologize for using an uncommon word. "Survey" would be a better name. Basically, an AGCEEP fan could finish the game and then go to an online form where he could answer some questions which would help us determine the statistics of outcomes of some important events. The fan wouldn't be required to quantify anything, only to answer some simple questions with an answer of choice. For example, some questions I would like to see in this survey would be:

Did Mughal Empire form?
Did Ottomans annex Mamluks through an event?
Did Poland inherit Lithuania?
Did Maximilian I keep the Imperial title?
Did country X colonize province Y (possibly with an option to specify when)

etc.

 

[unmerged(15247)]

ok i am firmlly convinced that the timuruds not beeing able to form mugah (BOTH as ai and human) is way to detrimental to the game play. i simplly removed entirely the requierment for them not to own the old timurds capital

i played 2 recent games as ethiopia and as shongay; in both the general rule was as follw; a small timurud (4-8 provinces) becomes mugah; between 1500-1650 it expanded a LOT both against persia as much as almost all india, got all its cores and more; but what i really liked is that in both cases around 1700 it implodes( governent break) due to the rr events(the bb is under limit). well, all of a sudden i am having a 9 province afghanistan( did not know AFG has soo many cores!?), and in 1 case a huge iraq!?. it looses ALL its eastern provinces since all are part of revoltes and just around 1700 i have a historical mugah all within india ONLY . and all the breakaway, nice sized states having a COMPETITIVE land tech at least . in my present game as ethiopia persia got divided between ottos and mugah but if formed in its almost entire shape from BOTH this nations .( i guess i got "lucky" since ottos had rebels and provinces defected "en mass"

now i do not know wht will happen in third game, but this situation brings extra exciment and more wars

the funny thing is that it might be ahistoical from 1500's to 1650's as someone mentioned. but after it is historical indeed))

 

[unmerged(15247)]

and one more thing; babur,having the old capital of timuruds, it is very important becouse its manpower level and high tax, nevertheless its medium fort(generally). so from game-play reality mugah do have a solid start then; the afghanistan is too poor, even if i noticed tax got increased, for some reason that province always gets overan quickly since every ai will siege it first. very SIMILAR to "tyrol" wich every ai would try to take it first.

(i always wonder why those predictable ai behaviours never got fixed!?) maybe i am ignorant, but WHY ai always targets a specific province even if might be impossible to take it due to large fort!?

anyone?

 

[unmerged(40707)]

anyone?

Without looking at the source code, answer is almost impossible, even with knowledge of values that can be used in ai files. And it is forbidden to say after looking at the source code...

 

[unmerged(15247)]

Without looking at the source code, answer is almost impossible, even with knowledge of values that can be used in ai files. And it is forbidden to say after looking at the source code...

sorry i do not understand; so you have the source code on condition as not to be shared!? well some things and especially "tricks" are so obvious...

 

[unmerged(40707)]

We can't talk about exact details of the hardcoded formulas used in the code, if not allowed to do so. "AI targetting a specific province even if might be impossible to take it due to large fort" could be one of them.
We can change the behaviour but we can't say what was exactly done in order to change it.

 

[Garbon]

and one more thing; babur,having the old capital of timuruds, it is very important becouse its manpower level and high tax, nevertheless its medium fort(generally). so from game-play reality mugah do have a solid start then; the afghanistan is too poor, even if i noticed tax got increased, for some reason that province always gets overan quickly since every ai will siege it first. very SIMILAR to "tyrol" wich every ai would try to take it first.

Which is why I'm resigned myself to wait for the new map where Afghanistan can be accurately represented.

 

[Garbon]

Long debated about whether or not to add this...but I figure at this point we don't really have anything to lose.

#(1524-1529) Babur in Lahore
event = {
	id = 230003 #triggered by DLH_161002
	random = no
	country = MOG
	name = "EVENTNAME230003" #Babur in Lahore
	desc = "EVENTHIST230003"
	#-#

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME230003A" #Onward to Delhi!
		command = { type = relation which = DLH value = -200 }
		command = { type = INF which = 1523 value = 5000 } #Thar
		command = { type = CAV which = 1524 value = 2500 } #Quetta
		[color=red]command = { type = casusbelli which = DLH value = 48 }[/color]
		[color=yellow]command = { type = war which = DLH }[/color]
		command = { type = addcore which = 1520 } #Chandigarh
		command = { type = addcore which = 1521 } #Panjab
		command = { type = addcore which = 1525 } #Qandahar
	}
	[color=yellow]action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME230003B" #We will wait to strike the killing blow!
		command = { type = relation which = DLH value = -200 }
		command = { type = casusbelli which = DLH value = 48 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 1520 } #Chandigarh
		command = { type = addcore which = 1521 } #Panjab
		command = { type = addcore which = 1525 } #Qandahar
	}[/color]
}

Daulat Khan, Delhi governor of Punjab, invited Babur to conquer Delhi, in order to divert Ibrahim's wrath from himself. This fifth invasion of Hindustan was to prove most fruitful for Babur. A little too late, Daulat Khan realized that Babur's coming was detrimental to his own interests.

 

[unmerged(15247)]

"AI targetting a specific province even if might be impossible to take it due to large fort" could be one of them.
We can change the behaviour but we can't say what was exactly done in order to change it.

i am sure it is
well, regardless, you can "randomize" that? so the player can not bet on such isssues...you will notice after how game becomes much HARDER , regardless of other enhacements or "balance" issues same for the part where sending 1-2 k to ai's capital; it always dissorients them, giving human extra time to siege.

ah and there is this "code" that "takes me for stupid" and i do not like it... when rebels are sieging and human sends troops...the rebels finish sieging MOST OF THE TIMES right before human's troops arrive o ,