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This doesn't look right. Just before 1066 the Moray-man were fighting for the crown of the Scots (Macbeth was originally Mormaer of Moray). The last king from the House of Moray was Lulach, steph-son of MacBeth, 1057-58.
From here:
This means that in 1066 the Mormaer of Moray should be Maelsnectan Mac Lulach, son of Lulach Mac Gillacomgain and Finnghuala, daughter of Sinill, Mormaer of Angus.
Edit: And, I might add, he should have a claim on the Scottish Crown
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This doesn't look right either... If I'm not totally mistaken, the Mormaer of Atholl in 1066 would be Donald Bane, younger brother of Malcom III Ceanmore and later known as king Donald III of Scotland
On the subject of irish Vassals.
In early times, the Irish word for king, "Ri," was used equally for the rulers of any territory, regardless of how large or small. Later, the word "Tiarna" or "Lord" became the preferred term for the ruler of a small territory, who usually held that territory by the authority of one of the Provincial Kings, or the Lord of larger territory. However, unlike feudal vassals, the individual Lords had complete control within their lands, owing a certain feudal rent and allegience to the superior lord or king.
Are Snowball looking for a list of Tiarna in the various provinces or Ireland? Such a list would automatically fall out of a map of the principle clans (or Septs really) at the time.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlkik/ihm/ire1100.htm
Another useful link for Irish history (which includes complete links to translated versions of all Irish historical texts) is
http://www.ucc.ie/celt/index.html
Paul.
In early times, the Irish word for king, "Ri," was used equally for the rulers of any territory, regardless of how large or small. Later, the word "Tiarna" or "Lord" became the preferred term for the ruler of a small territory, who usually held that territory by the authority of one of the Provincial Kings, or the Lord of larger territory. However, unlike feudal vassals, the individual Lords had complete control within their lands, owing a certain feudal rent and allegience to the superior lord or king.
Are Snowball looking for a list of Tiarna in the various provinces or Ireland? Such a list would automatically fall out of a map of the principle clans (or Septs really) at the time.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlkik/ihm/ire1100.htm
Another useful link for Irish history (which includes complete links to translated versions of all Irish historical texts) is
http://www.ucc.ie/celt/index.html
Paul.
Nice list. I can't wait for the game.
Btw, does anyone else think that having this two-forum system, with some of the messages from one forum being posted on the other, and vice-versa, is as stupid as it gets when it comes to information exchange efficiency?
Btw, does anyone else think that having this two-forum system, with some of the messages from one forum being posted on the other, and vice-versa, is as stupid as it gets when it comes to information exchange efficiency?
Unless of course, thats the point. I mean, it stands to reason that the average individual would come to the Paradox forum for any info, and not really know about Snowball's forum. Then of course, you have people like me who don't like how Snowball's forum is aesthetically, so I ain't logging onto it as well. That way you really only need to keep track of what goes on, on this board for any 'false promises' which isn't as hard, as the info exchange is inefficient and therefore limiting. Or, at least, thats how it seems to me.
Ruler Robert de Mombray
Title: Earl of Northumberland
Vassal of: King of England
Current location: Northumberland
Was born at: 1.1.1041
Age to game start: 25
Family status: Single
Father: Unknown
Mother: Unknown
The spelling should be Mowbray and he did not become Earl of Northumberland until 1080.
Title: Earl of Northumberland
Vassal of: King of England
Current location: Northumberland
Was born at: 1.1.1041
Age to game start: 25
Family status: Single
Father: Unknown
Mother: Unknown
The spelling should be Mowbray and he did not become Earl of Northumberland until 1080.
Originally posted by Havard
This doesn't look right either... If I'm not totally mistaken, the Mormaer of Atholl in 1066 would be Donald Bane, younger brother of Malcom III Ceanmore and later known as king Donald III of Scotland
"Donald 'Bane' (Fair) was the younger brother of Malcolm III. He succeeded him in 1093, at the age of 60, after driving out Malcolm's sons and claiming the crown on the basis of tanistry. Donald was deposed by his nephew Duncan II in 1094, with the assistance of William II (Rufus) of England; Donald regained the throne soon afterwards when Duncan was killed in November that year. Donald then seems to have shared his rule with his nephew Edmund (Donald in Scotia, Edmund in Lothian and Strathclyde).
In 1097, Malcolm III's son Edgar invaded Scotland with help from William II of England, and Donald was defeated and deposed once more. Accounts of his fate differ, but according to one version he was blinded and kept prisoner until his death at Rescobie, Angus in about 1100. (Edmund was pardoned and became a monk.)"
Source:http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page99.asp
I agree with Harvard on this, Also the age has to be adjusted from 26 to 33 Donald III was born in 1033.
I thought Waltheof was the Earl of Northumberland (not Northampton) before Mowbray.
Mowbray killed Malcolm III in some battle/raid in 1093 (supposedly).
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Originally posted by Sonny
I thought Waltheof was the Earl of Northumberland (not Northampton) before Mowbray.
Mowbray killed Malcolm III in some battle/raid in 1093 (supposedly).
He was both. He was the son of the Earl of Northumberland, but his first Earldom ("Middle Anglia") consisted of Northampton, Huntingdon, Bedford, & Cambridge (1065). He didnt get Northumberland until 1072.
It was this "Middle Anglian" earldom that caused the conflicting claims of the Simons de Senlis (Earls of Northampton) with the Scottish Earls of Huntingdon & Cambridge. IIRC, Simon III eventually got Henry II to decide it in his favor when William I the Lion joined the great rebellion of 1173-74.
Like, whoa, dude
First off, since the game begins in 1066 most of these lords should have completely nominal attachment to the land. William had pacified nothing beyond the south-east by the year's end.
Secondly, there's a bizarre fluidity where the spelling of names and titles is concerned. (Incidentally, something needs to be done about that title 'of Northumbria of Bernicia'.) If we're going to have Gospatrick rather than Cospatric then we should modernise some of the Breton names as well. Uniformity may be a problem. I've seen Herleve/Arlette 'of Falaise' spelt at least three different ways so far.
Still, this kicks anus - onwards!
First off, since the game begins in 1066 most of these lords should have completely nominal attachment to the land. William had pacified nothing beyond the south-east by the year's end.
Secondly, there's a bizarre fluidity where the spelling of names and titles is concerned. (Incidentally, something needs to be done about that title 'of Northumbria of Bernicia'.) If we're going to have Gospatrick rather than Cospatric then we should modernise some of the Breton names as well. Uniformity may be a problem. I've seen Herleve/Arlette 'of Falaise' spelt at least three different ways so far.
Still, this kicks anus - onwards!