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Ranger900

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As the title says this is an Interest Check for a RotTK style game, as has been mentioned a few times in other places. Mostly the point of this thread is to establish who wants to play and what year to start in. Players would be playing primarily as characters with, where appropriate, nations attached to them. Most characters who were important to the RotTK's storyline would be available to play (though non-leaders would only receive stats if someone wants to play them. Otherwise they will just act as boosters to their leaders stats).

The victory condition would be to re-unite China, which will likely be impossible for any single character to achieve. Instead players (who are all starting pretty much as warlords) will be able to form 'Kingdoms' which are comprised of multiple characters, with one of them being the 'Emperor' of that kingdom (usually whoever is the strongest member of the Kingdom though it doesn't have to be). The more players that are in a Kingdom the easier controlling large amounts of territory will be and the better the Kingdom will be able to use land they control. Though the more players involved the more risk there is for the Emperor of that Kingdom to be deposed, as only the Emperor, his Marshal (A player designated by the Emperor who likely has the best combat stats or strongest army) and his Strategist (ditto except focused more on Strategy stats or potentially strongest economy) will be considered the 'winners' of the game. (Though this may change depending on player input but likely won't be more then 4 players who could win)

Options for starting dates are 184 AD (The beginning of the Yellow Turban Rebellion, lots of smaller leaders, The Han Dynasty still has a shot at holding together, none of the OTL major kingdoms have even started to form)

China%20map%20184%20with%20legend.png


China%20map%20184%20Kingdoms.png


(Edit: Liu Yao should be under Bandit Kingdoms)


Or 190 AD (Around the time of the Coalition against Dong Zhuo, also alot of smaller leaders, Han is pretty much removed from the game, Wei and Wu are starting to show up as Warlord states, no Kingdoms worthy of a map exist.)

China%20map%20190%20With%20Legend.png


So ya, good idea? Bad Idea? Suggestions? Also which start year would you guys prefer
 
As the title says this is an Interest Check for a RotTK style game, as has been mentioned a few times in other places. Mostly the point of this thread is to establish who wants to play and what year to start in. Players would be playing primarily as characters with, where appropriate, nations attached to them. Most characters who were important to the RotTK's storyline would be available to play (though non-leaders would only receive stats if someone wants to play them. Otherwise they will just act as boosters to their leaders stats).

The victory condition would be to re-unite China, which will likely be impossible for any single character to achieve. Instead players (who are all starting pretty much as warlords) will be able to form 'Kingdoms' which are comprised of multiple characters, with one of them being the 'Emperor' of that kingdom (usually whoever is the strongest member of the Kingdom though it doesn't have to be). The more players that are in a Kingdom the easier controlling large amounts of territory will be and the better the Kingdom will be able to use land they control. Though the more players involved the more risk there is for the Emperor of that Kingdom to be deposed, as only the Emperor, his Marshal (A player designated by the Emperor who likely has the best combat stats or strongest army) and his Strategist (ditto except focused more on Strategy stats or potentially strongest economy) will be considered the 'winners' of the game. (Though this may change depending on player input but likely won't be more then 4 players who could win)

Options for starting dates are 184 AD (The beginning of the Yellow Turban Rebellion, lots of smaller leaders, The Han Dynasty still has a shot at holding together, none of the OTL major kingdoms have even started to form)

China%20map%20184%20with%20legend.png


China%20map%20184%20Kingdoms.png


(Edit: Liu Yao should be under Bandit Kingdoms)


Or 190 AD (Around the time of the Coalition against Dong Zhuo, also alot of smaller leaders, Han is pretty much removed from the game, Wei and Wu are starting to show up as Warlord states, no Kingdoms worthy of a map exist.)

China%20map%20190%20With%20Legend.png


So ya, good idea? Bad Idea? Suggestions? Also which start year would you guys prefer

How based on mechanics would the game be?

Also, might be a bit of a pedant, but several of your maps' areas of control are wrong in a number of places, not limited to: Xiongnu (Didn't control that far East), Gongsun Zan (Didn't control Liaodong peninsula but controlled some territories that the Xiongnu control in that map, ditto for the Han map), Meng Huo controlling that large segment of the South. I'll put an alternative map using those very same provinces, but that is more historically more accurate.
 
The maps were made using the best I could find through a mix of looking over the story again, and through a bit of Dynasty Warriors and wiki walking. From what I can find though (mostly through the Wiki) Gongsun Zan ended up taking control of much of that area for a while (Xuantu Commandery)and I just attached the rest to him out of simplicity. As for Xiongnu that was mostly me trying to fill in a 'blank area' that I had on the map that the Han semi-controlled but I couldn't find any local leaders. Meng Huo as far as I can tell controlled most of that area, though I may have extended him a bit too far west.

As for stats they are going to be playing a reasonably large part of the game. My idea was that if the World in Revolution Games are closer to Vicky 2/EU4 ish, this would be closer to Crusader Kings 2. Player/character/nation stats will influence rolls and events, but at the same time you are playing a 'character' more then a nation.

(But ya feel free to post the map, I would like to see what I might have missed cause maps of that area are in general a mess)

Edit: On further looking Xuantu Commandery should probably be independent, it wasn't till post 200 that it fell to the Gongsuns.
 
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I'd join, if I'm not like all busies... as for the year, I'll go with 184.
 
Since this is based on Sānguó Yǎnyì, I expect that all the characters - from generals to peasants to concubines - will sound exactly the same?

I would vote for the 190 AD start as it seems more fitting with the game's objectives: the power vacuum begins in earnest as Han central authority collapses. In the 184 AD, the Han is still barely in the ascendant and all other actors nominally loyal to it, albeit with the transition to warlordism already beginning.
 
Just a question I am from Sim RTK forums, and would you allow us to make our own characters or do we have to play historical characters?
 
I'm very interested.

On a side note, the late Han dynasty had tree supreme ministers: The Chancellor, that was usually the most powerful man after the emperor and had almost universal powers. the Grand Commandant, who was responsible for the military. The Minister of Works, who was charged to take care of infrastructure, emission of currency, flood control measures, etc.
In terms of prestige it goes Chancellor->Grand Commandant->Minister or Excellency of Works( Excellency would be better because Minister can cause confusion with the 12 imperial ministers). Note that any of these three, if powerful enough, always dictated the terms for other two. After the fragmentation of the Han began, it was very difficult to achieve a proper balance of power between these three offices, maybe except for the Excellency of Works, who was always seems as a lesser office compared to the other two.
 
Ya, technically the Marshal-Strategist-Emperor idea is to be something similar (though it merges Chancellor and Minister of Works into Strategist)

Also upon further research, these are the borders for the 184 Map (since it currently has the most votes) as best as I can correct them. (Though the years that I can find some of these things are a bit spotty especially around Korea)

China%20map%20184%20with%20legend.png


China%20map%20184%20Kingdoms.png


(Note the Gongsun Clan remains technically part of the Han but its even more isolated then the other warlords and controls a rather extensive region to one family so I put it as its own thing on the map)

(Edit also turns out it corrected my maps way up at the top of the page, who knew)
 
I personnally prefer the 190 start since the Han are prrtty much crushed and it seems like an overall better start date.
 
Since people have voted up the 190 start a good amount, here are the updated 190 map + a kingdom map.

China%20190%20Map%20with%20Legend.png


China%20190%20Kingdoms%20Map%20with%20Legend.png

(Ma Clan might fall under an Outlier Kingdom but kept it as a normal one)
 
I just remembered I had done some similar maps in an explanation post in another thread, that includes a 190 map:

Here you go, based on the Romance and not on history.

I took some creative license in some parts, so it isn't the map won't be 100% accurate though.

VstPaTV.png


nBKUGp4.png


5fOfwtb.png


NnnUeAe.png


pXYfLdv.png
 
Hmmm, so looking closer to my updated map in Korea/Manchuria, though I would contest your Yuan Shao placement. Its mentioned that he was bordering Dong (and also in a relatively central part of China) from what I remember and no mentions were made to the Gongsuns falling under his power.

Though I may change up Sun Jiang's position a bit I was a bit thrown off as to where the people were down there (except Sun Ce) because usually names of relatively large regions (that aren't used so much any more) were used instead of province names.

Current votes for a map
5 190AD (Assuming Jolt votes 190AD)
3 184AD
2 Unknown (Kaiserbeer, Zex)
 
Hmmm, so looking closer to my updated map in Korea/Manchuria, though I would contest your Yuan Shao placement. Its mentioned that he was bordering Dong (and also in a relatively central part of China) from what I remember and no mentions were made to the Gongsuns falling under his power.

Yuan Shao was granted the office of Grand Administrator of Bohai commandery by Dong Zhuo before Yuan Shao rebelled as an attempt to placate Yuan Shao, and his extremely influential family. It is the Bohai territory that Yuan Shao has in my map. It is only after the coalition against Dong Zhuo was formed that Yuan Shao attacked Han Fu, Governor of Ji province and his nominal superior, that he gained the lands of Han Fu.

Here are the Lords that are mentioned as partaking in the coalition as per the Romance of the Three Kingdoms:

1. Governor of Nanyang---Yuan Shu
2. Imperial Protector of Jizhou Region---Han Fu
3. Imperial Protector of Yuzhou Region---Kong Zhou
4. Imperial Protector of Yanzhou Region---Liu Dai
5. Governor of Henei---Wang Kuang
6. Governor of Chenliu---Zhang Miao
7. Governor of Dongjun---Qiao Mao
8. Governor of Shanyang---Yuan Yi
9. Lord of Jibei---Bao Xin
10. Governor of Beihai---Kong Rong
11. Governor of Guangling ---Zhang Chao
12. Imperial Protector of Xuzhou Region---Tao Qian
13. Governor of Xiliang---Ma Teng
14. Governor of Beiping---Gongsun Zan
15. Governor of Shangdang---Zhang Yang
16. Governor of Changsha---Sun Jian
17. Governor of Bohai---Yuan Shao


There is only one change that I made from this list on my 190 map, which was giving Gongsun Zan Liaoxi commandery in addition to Beiping commandery. All other individuals hold their respective lands as mentioned in this list.

You can see Han's provinces and commanderies in this map made by me and Fornadan (Also a Paradox member) here.
 
Interested. Vote for 184 AD.
 
I'm interested in this, though I have little knowledge in the Time period and less about the books.

Edit; Oh yeah, almost forgot, I vote for 190 ad.
 
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For people interested in this game, its not dead, I've just been working on stats.

Note this is rough but given the difficulty of finding accurate at the time numbers, this is how stats are going to end up looking like.

Current Version of Dong Zhuo's kingdoms stats for 190 AD


Empire of Dong Zhuo
Ruler Emperor Dong Zhuo
Income 35
Expenses -50
Balance -15
Total on Hand 58

Strength 1 (+2 from Hua Xiong)
Tactics 3 (+2 from Zhang Liao)
Strategy 3 (+2 from Jia Xu)

Followers 3,200,000
Military Followers 150,000
Military Equipment (0/5) Average
Military Training (4/5) Poor


Notable Subordinates
Name Lu Bu
Player Name

Income 2
Expenses -1
Balance 1
Total on Hand 7

Strength 10
Tactics 0
Strategy 0

Followers 0
Military Followers 0
Military Equipment NA
Military Training NA

Name Kong Rong
Player Name

Income 15
Expenses -15
Balance 0
Total on Hand 30

Strength 0
Tactics 2
Strategy 2

Followers 500,000
Military Followers 7,000
Military Equipment (0/5)Poor
Military Training (0/5)Poor


Total Kingdom Income 52
Total Kingdom Expense -66
Total Kingdom Balance -14

Total Kingdom Followers 3,700,000
Total Kingdom Military 807,000
Kingdom Average Military Equipment (3/5) Poor
Kingdom Average Military Traininy (2/5) Poor