Interregnum - Cordoba

[orimazd]

Hello, everybody. (hi, doctor nick!) I've been watching this mod very closely over the past six months, and I want to tell you just how awesome it is (okay, done). Most of the time I sat back and enjoyed it, though lately especially I have wanted to contribute. I searched back through the aberration forum and have not found a single definitive Cordoba thread, so I'm making one here. Last time I played this game as Cordoba, I made a mental list of stuff about this one nation which needed to be fixed; of course, being in my head, I forgot the vast majority of it. The primary thing I remember is that the explorer and conquistador you get very early on in the game to find the azores do not last long enough to make it there (technically, the explorer doesn't last long enough, and thus I couldn't tell you if the conquistador does for sure; however, he does not last long enough to explore a province in north africa, or the canary islands (which in my games are often colonized by...ORLEANAIS). Another thing I noticed was about Swabia and Sigismund's eternal reign, but that's not for this thread.

Also, after the first set of explorer/conquistador, you eventually get another conquistador meant to explore the new world; I suspect that this is a hangover from Aberration, but anyways you do not get an explorer which will discover the new world first.

 

[MattyG]

OK, I'll extend the dates of those first two explorers.

Cordoba is not meant to be the first nation to the New World. Eire gets there first by 50 years. Then a bunch of nations come in at the same time: Brittany, Cordoba, Sicily and Genoa are all early on the scene.

Thanks for your compliments!

I look forward to other ideas you generate. We like contributors!

(So, that Orleannais thing happened more than once?) OK, I'll look into more closely!

 

[idont]

As to the short lived explorer: I found that he can find the Azores, but only if you're lucky and he starts on the west coast. Since his location is random (uh, I think), he might start in Catalonia and be pretty useless.
I'd suggest to add location = 441 to Ramdane and Abu-l Azziz to make it a bit easier.
Although as a human player, I'd sugget you get the Canary Islands instead. If you want the Azores, it's more effective to just beat up Eire.

Other things about Cordoba:
Currently, the only way to be peaceful is to start a war in Iberia, and then say you're peaceful. So, for those that are genuinely peaceful, there should be an event like this:

event = {
    id = x
    trigger = {
        NOT = { event = 200510 }
    }
    random = no
    country = CRD
    name = "Peace in Iberia"
    desc = "To the surprise of most observers, the uneasy peace between Cordoba and its Christian neighbours held, and with time people started accepting the status quo."

    date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1450 }
    offset = 360
    deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1455 }

    action_a = {
        name = "Let them keep their lands"
        command = { type = setflag which = RelCon_peace } # peaceful co-existance
        command = { type = provincetax which = 442 value = 1 } #Algarve
        command = { type = provincetax which = 439 value = 1 } #Toledo
        command = { type = provincetax which = 437 value = 1 } #Valencia
        command = { type = provincetax which = 444 value = 2 } #Cordoba
        command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = 1 }
        command = { type = sleepevent which = 200515 }
        command = { type = sleepevent which = 200516 }
        command = { type = sleepevent which = 200510 }
        command = { type = ai which = Cordoba_peaceful.ai } # Peaceful until the end of the Nasrid Dynasty
    }
        action_b = {
        name = "I am just waiting for the right opportunity to strike"
	command = { type = VP value = -1 }	#Just because I don't know how to make events that do nothing
    }
}

Event 200546 (early shipyard) should check if you actually own Andalusia (443). Currently, somebody peaceful who always chooses option A will have given it away to Selvilla, thus paying 800 gc to not get a shipyard.

 

[Symmetry]

Actually the starting location of the first explorer isn't random. He is supposed to start in Andalusia, from which he does have enough time to reach the Azores. However, because of the "Duke of Sevilla" event Granada usually doesn't own Andalusia so he starts in Valencia instead (the game seems to use the same algorithm for detirmining explorer starting locations as it does deciding among valid targets with retreats).

EDIT: Might I suggest changing the explorer so he starts in Tago by default instead?

 

[MattyG]

As to the short lived explorer: I found that he can find the Azores, but only if you're lucky and he starts on the west coast. Since his location is random (uh, I think), he might start in Catalonia and be pretty useless.
I'd suggest to add location = 441 to Ramdane and Abu-l Azziz to make it a bit easier.
Although as a human player, I'd sugget you get the Canary Islands instead. If you want the Azores, it's more effective to just beat up Eire.

Other things about Cordoba:
Currently, the only way to be peaceful is to start a war in Iberia, and then say you're peaceful. So, for those that are genuinely peaceful, there should be an event like this:

event = {
    id = x
    trigger = {
        NOT = { event = 200510 }
    }
    random = no
    country = CRD
    name = "Peace in Iberia"
    desc = "To the surprise of most observers, the uneasy peace between Cordoba and its Christian neighbours held, and with time people started accepting the status quo."

    date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1450 }
    offset = 360
    deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1455 }

    action_a = {
        name = "Let them keep their lands"
        command = { type = setflag which = RelCon_peace } # peaceful co-existance
        command = { type = provincetax which = 442 value = 1 } #Algarve
        command = { type = provincetax which = 439 value = 1 } #Toledo
        command = { type = provincetax which = 437 value = 1 } #Valencia
        command = { type = provincetax which = 444 value = 2 } #Cordoba
        command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = 1 }
        command = { type = sleepevent which = 200515 }
        command = { type = sleepevent which = 200516 }
        command = { type = sleepevent which = 200510 }
        command = { type = ai which = Cordoba_peaceful.ai } # Peaceful until the end of the Nasrid Dynasty
    }
        action_b = {
        name = "I am just waiting for the right opportunity to strike"
	command = { type = VP value = -1 }	#Just because I don't know how to make events that do nothing
    }
}

Event 200546 (early shipyard) should check if you actually own Andalusia (443). Currently, somebody peaceful who always chooses option A will have given it away to Selvilla, thus paying 800 gc to not get a shipyard.

Good ideas, good work. I'll get this event in there, plus a few extra triggers and sleepevent commands.

I'll also give those province definitions to Ramdane and Al_Aziz

 

[unmerged(31994)]

Perhaps we should raise the issue of a Murcian-Valencian Emirate instead of Seville?More managable I suppose...

 

[orimazd]

Are there any plans for an event which will change Catalonia's culture from occitan to andalusi?

 

[Symmetry]

Another thought.

Currently when Cordoba inherits Morocco (if it does), there's a culture mismatch because Cordoba has Arab culture but Morocco is mostly Maghrebi. Since Arab is supposed to suggest the culture of the elites in Morocco, may I suggest that the Morrocan dynasty event should add Maghrebi culture and remove Arab? Or maybe it would be better just to remove Arab to start with and then possibly add Maghrebi later, possibly after forcing Cordoba to jump through some hoops that may or may not involve being ruled by the Moroccan dynasty.

 

[MattyG]

Are there any plans for an event which will change Catalonia's culture from occitan to andalusi?

No plans, but it seems reasonable.

 

[MattyG]

Another thought.

Currently when Cordoba inherits Morocco (if it does), there's a culture mismatch because Cordoba has Arab culture but Morocco is mostly Maghrebi. Since Arab is supposed to suggest the culture of the elites in Morocco, may I suggest that the Morrocan dynasty event should add Maghrebi culture and remove Arab? Or maybe it would be better just to remove Arab to start with and then possibly add Maghrebi later, possibly after forcing Cordoba to jump through some hoops that may or may not involve being ruled by the Moroccan dynasty.

I'll leave that one to Calipah. He's da man when it comes to Cordoba.

 

[unmerged(31994)]

I actually told you about that

Alter it

However,arabic culture will always remain in Cordoba - It's culturally immersed in arabic and anybody who says otherwise is simply ignorant



As for Barcelona, I was actually thinking of doing it...giving it Andalusi, but since the Muslims only ruled it for less than 80 years before Charlemange's campaign, I thought it would be wrong of me to do so, but if you want to add an event for Barcelona be my guest

 

[orimazd]

lol, I won't be doing so myself. If I started doing coding for a major project like this at the point I'm at in the game, I would probably cause the mother of all CTDs.

 

[unmerged(31994)]

Well, I think your proposal makes sense, afterall, Catalonia becoming Andalusi after being Islamized makes sense...

 

[Avernite]

I kinda disagree, I highly doubt the Catalonians are that much more open to Andalusi than north-west Iberia. Who don't become Andalusi.


Besides which, the province provides great potential for conflict between an Occitan-Protestant Savoy and Cordoba.

 

[MattyG]

I kinda disagree, I highly doubt the Catalonians are that much more open to Andalusi than north-west Iberia. Who don't become Andalusi.


Besides which, the province provides great potential for conflict between an Occitan-Protestant Savoy and Cordoba.

I think the idea is sound and we can accommodate both views. Catalonia can become Andalusi culture, but only if there is no Occitan state and only after 1600.

How's that?

 

[Avernite]

I think the idea is sound and we can accommodate both views. Catalonia can become Andalusi culture, but only if there is no Occitan state and only after 1600.

How's that?

So, essentially, it would be an event triggered on:

-Sunni/shiite religion
-non-existant Occitania
-no Savoy exists OR not the Ugos line-start event
-(Owned by Cordoba)

I suppose that could work, and IF Occitania or so takes it back, it could turn back again like with the Sicilian culture-switches?

 

[MattyG]

So, essentially, it would be an event triggered on:

-Sunni/shiite religion
-non-existant Occitania
-no Savoy exists OR not the Ugos line-start event
-(Owned by Cordoba)

I suppose that could work, and IF Occitania or so takes it back, it could turn back again like with the Sicilian culture-switches?

I think that most/all of the Iberian provinces need events to turn them (back) to Iberian culture if they are captured by a Christian nation and converted. So, yes.

 

[orimazd]

Even should it happen in, say, 1700?

 

[yourworstnightm]

If it happen in the 1700s I think only the north Iberian provinces would be converted, Islam's roots in the south would be too strong (I think they would be that alredy in the mid 1500s).

 

[Incompetent]

On the Andalusi/Iberian issue, we could make it similar to Byzantium's choice for Greek/Turkish: either forcible conversion of the provinces to Andalusi culture, with consequent loss of Iberian culture and an eventual 'status quo' adjustment of cores, or more gradual assimilation, with many provinces staying Iberian, or only switching after Cordoba has converted them to Islam on its own steam, but Cordoba retains Iberian culture.

The former choice would make Cordoba more stable, would probably be cheaper and quicker for the purposes of religious conversion, and give less prospect of the northern provinces getting reclaimed by Iberian Christians later if Cordoba is pushed back. The latter would give better relations with the Christian world, leave the door open for closer ties with Occitanie, and be much better for Cordoba's economy in the long term. Generally the forcible conversion path should be natural for a very narrow-minded Cordoba that wants to fence itself off from Christian Europe and concentrate its energies elsewhere, and the assimilation path more natural for a moderate or innovative Cordoba that wants to stay quite involved in Christian Europe, in the manner of the Ottoman Empire. Based on how Cordoba is likely to play the latter would be much more likely in SP, but the former might appeal to a Cordoba that's paranoid about the Christian countries, especially in MP, as changing provinces' culture to one no other country has and converting them immediately to Islam would make them much less desirable for a Christian country to take.

As for Catalonia, I think it would take a long time for Andalusi culture to spread that far. But if Cordoba has Iberian culture, the Catalans could switch to that after a while to reflect that they are at home in the Cordoban state, even if they aren't in the cultural heartland of the country. Catalonia is a debatable propostion for Occitanie as well, and I think we should give Occitanie or whatever represents it some chance to take Catalonia, but if it fails, the two sides of the Pyrenees would eventually drift apart.