Interregnum Revolutions

[loki1232]

I was thinking about Interregnum, and I realized that there are a couple of interesting and fun to mod/play things that happened IRL that aren't reflected in any way in Interregnum (allright, I haven't looked at all of the event files so I could easily be wrong).

The first one is a revolter nation that is player friendly (fun for humans to control) with events and a storyline. Example from vanilla EU2 are Holland and USA. I would recommend that this happen with a nation created by revolting Ukrainian provinces that border the black sea (maybe the early 1600's?). Presumably in a place with a different culture (maybe in former golden horde territories?) So we end up with a nation of traders that contests genoa and Byzantium for control of the black sea. it would probably ally with Hungary, be orthodox in religion and tech, but try to act as a port for all of Russia, or at least all of the former golden horde territories (event sequences where they get free gold and tax value through trade with their neighbors), perhaps getting some colonial possesions as well. What do you think?

The second one is the French Revolution. Although Interregnum has plenty of revolutions and civil wars, I don't think it has anything like the French Revolution in the populist nature of it. As opposed to a civil war fought between the son and brother of a dead king.
It seems to me that this sort of revolution could take place in various countries, depending on which has the right social conditions (strong monarchy, large aristocracy, low stability, growing middle class, enlightenment ideals. I'm not really a French Revolution expertbut you get the idea). Generally once the first of these occured (in the early 1700's?) it would sleep the others, so that Bavaria or UoK or Burgundy or Cordoba could have the revolution, but not more than one. Any of them would have earth shaking consequences, but be avoidable if you wanted. Some good results and some bad ones obviously.

What do you think of these ideas?

 

[loki1232]

Matty's Response

Here's what Matty responded in a pm:

Re: Interregnum Ideas
Loki,

Well, both of your ideas are, as usual, really interesting. I am particularly taken by the first of them. There is nothing like that yet in the game. The game assumes that the Golden Horde collapses in the 1420s under the weight of civil war, (although we plan for it to be able to reinvigorate itself.) And that Ukraine fills the gap, claiming the Ruthenian provinces etc.

I like that the region of Kaffa and Kerch could also form their own merchant-based state. They would need to be very good at diplomacy, as they need to remain friendly with everyone around them, as they simply won't have the manpower to exist on their own for very long, nor be able to force the straights for trading if things got bad with Byzantium etc.

I think the key is Genoa. Instead of Genoa claiming the region and just going for it, Genoa would support the Italian traders there and help establish a vassal republic modelled after themselves. If the little republic collapses, they get cores there and can go in and claim it.

On the matter of revolutions, these are always tricky. It needs a full forum debate on conditions, such as whether the Republi of Free Provinces exists, Rath na Faeyr perhaps or any of the other American successor states. Or can these revolutions come from home-based triggers only? Then there's 'what happens'? If the results of a revolution are mostly bd, its hard on the ai and little fun for players. If the results are ultimately positive, that's fine, but the timing of them in MP will be crucial. If a revolution happens late game, then no player in their right mind in MP will want it, because they will be a sitting duck for the others without enough time afterwards to rebuild.

Unless we give them a Napolean-like figure and all the ooomph that comes with it.

Matty

So what do all of you people think?

 

[idont]

The first one seems quite hard to do, since a revolter can only be played by the humans if you change nations in the middle of the game, which at least to me makes them rather less fun to play.

For the second, rather than one revolution sleeping the others, how about the opposite? Once one nation descends into anarchy, all the other nations are worried that should the revolution succeed, their own plebs will get the wrong idea, and so decide to intervene on behalf of the monarchists.
To make it less like real history, we could have some nations (low aristocracy, high inovativness) boldly embrace the new ideas, and intervene on behalf of the revolutionaries.
This might be rather hard to script properly, but I think it could be quite fun in multi player.

 

[loki1232]

For the second, rather than one revolution sleeping the others, how about the opposite? Once one nation descends into anarchy, all the other nations are worried that should the revolution succeed, their own plebs will get the wrong idea, and so decide to intervene on behalf of the monarchists.
To make it less like real history, we could have some nations (low aristocracy, high inovativness) boldly embrace the new ideas, and intervene on behalf of the revolutionaries.
This might be rather hard to script properly, but I think it could be quite fun in multi player.

i just meant that there would be one starting revolution, which would then trigger other events, but only one country would have the starting (and bloodiest) revolution.

 

[loki1232]

Well before any revolution like the French Revolution can take place I think we need to model the enlightenment. I'm not quite sure how, but IRL it was such an important thing it seems neccessary to model somehow. Maybe it starts in whichever major country reaches infra 4 and has at least 6 innovativeness first. then it spreads outwards like a ripple (or like smallpox in the new world). Various real world people would be mentioned in minor events, such as John Locke and Voltaire. Monarchs would get the choice to encourage or discourage these ideas. This would also lead to more religious tolerance, and the edict of tolerace event (edict of tolerance could fail to trigger if everyone is terribly conservative).

So the first revolution would take place in one of the most authoritarian and aristocratic countries, but which didn't discourage the enlightenment. If ADM can be used as an event trigger, then having an incompetent monarch could also spur a revolution.
I would say that the First Revolution would take place in either Bavaria, Cordoba, Byzantium, Swabia, Scotland, Hungary, or Burgundy. Most of the major powers, I think that any of them could be in the right shape for a revolution, and that in any game at least one of them will be, so there will be a revolution.

This revolution will have earthshaking consequences.
Here's how I see the events as going:
1. Revolution!!!! Gasp!!! Dirty peasants running around with weapons!! A player can choose to oppose the revolution, in which case they have to deal with severe revolutions, desertions, and unrest, but the revolution will probably be defeated, and the event chain ends there (although the revolution still can trigger for other countries). However, an Ai (and the player if they're looking for a fun time) will choose the other option, in which case your monarch becomes revolutionaries, and lots of stuff happens. Desertions, unrest, diplomatic hits with everyone. if this choice is chosen then the basic revolutions won't occur for any other country.
2. Choices, choices. Here the revolutionary country decides what it will be like, and what to do with the former rulers and elites.
3. Reactions. Other countries react, some positively, some negatively. Some may even have a revolution themselves if conditions are right. Everyone will form new alliances and probably decclare war.
4. Colonies. Depending on the decisions of the revolutionaries, various things will happen to their colonies. Such as the slaves being freed (if there are slaves), a revolt for independence, defecting to a more conservative country, or the native americans being accepted into the community. The non revolutionary countries will experience colonial revolts, and native/slave revolts, but also colonial patriotism.
5. Aftermath. If the conservatives win, then the revolutionary countries and their allies are punished and either annexed or set up as vassal monarchies. If the revolutionary countries win then the conservatives are carved up and turned into republics. Either way there will be more colonial revolts, some unrest, and a significant amount of VP's for the winner (since this will be a late-game event chain)

So why would this be fun?
Well the country the revolution happens to first would get to totally redefine their society, and although they would be weak and vulnerable, their enemies would also suffer from unrest, and the revolutionaries would gain new allies. Also, victory in the resulting war would be a large boost.

Do you like this idea? (i know its a lot of work)

 

[unmerged(49083)]

Wouldn't you need a "revolution" tag for each nation to represent that? Like an anarchic hungary, where the revolters gained victory would create the nation "Revolutionary Hungary"

 

[orimazd]

Instead of a name like Revolutionary Hungary, I would suggest a name more along the lines of "Republic of Hungary" or "Free Republic of Hungary."

 

[loki1232]

I don't know if it's needed. Maybe just DP settings and Monarchs will be enough to show it is a revolutionary government. And yes, it would be something like the Republic of Hungary. I'm modeling this off the French Revolution. (makes me wish we could do flag changes for one country in the middle of the game like in vanilla with France getting the tricolor and England getting the Union Jack)

 

[orimazd]

Ask the people in AGCEEP how to do it if you don't know how; they change the france flag from the Valois version to the Bourbon version to the Tricolor in the middle of the game.

 

[unmerged(33577)]

From Havard's EU2 pages :

command = { type = flagname which = "x" }

Using this command, you can change the graphic flag and shield of the country receiving the event. It is important that the new graphic files are named flag_TAGx.bmp, shield_TAGx.bmp, shieldsilver_TAGx.bmp and smallshield_TAGx.bmp. All four files must be present. To change back, use 'which = ""'.

 

[loki1232]

great so we can do these revolutions without needed extra country tags.

 

[MattyG]

The flagname only change the flag, though. We have such commands and flags in Interregnum already, for the Kingdom of Armenia and the alternate Burgundy.

But it does not change the country name or anything else. If you want to change the country name, you have to have a separate tag. The game is very inflexible in this way.

 

[loki1232]

My point is that we won't need a new name for the Republic of Cordoba if we give it a new flag and change the civics (and the monarch)

 

[MattyG]

Ahmed writes:

"At "interregum revolutions" thread I noticed than some forumers talking
about french-kind revolution for Cordoba. I think that there is problem cos
people do not know tham muslim kingdoms are not legitime from islamic viewpoint and since destroying of real Caliphate, muslims dream was about reviving of it, not some 1789kind revolutions which is europe product...

Also seems that some forumers do not understand that some process of
Europe like enlighting, humanism etc was developing by process of losing of
religion (christianity), but in interregnum it is not obligately happening..."

 

[unmerged(49083)]

If we do have a country that revolts, when we make the event for changing the flag, may I recommend sleeping the standard monarchs, and activate the revolutionary monarchs, and then they get to choose whether they want to go back normal, which reverses everything or stay revolutionary.

 

[unmerged(31994)]

We need a Napoleon in the game....Michael Doukas I suppose was considered the hero for a while :S

 

[MattyG]

We need a Napoleon in the game....Michael Doukas I suppose was considered the hero for a while :S

Not Yacub of Cordoba?

 

[orimazd]

I want Squanto to be the napoleonic figure, really! IIRC, some interesting crap goes on in der Hanse during his lifetime, let them colonize Massachussetts in addition to the Southeast, where I live.

 

[loki1232]

Ahmed writes:

"At "interregum revolutions" thread I noticed than some forumers talking
about french-kind revolution for Cordoba. I think that there is problem cos
people do not know tham muslim kingdoms are not legitime from islamic viewpoint and since destroying of real Caliphate, muslims dream was about reviving of it, not some 1789kind revolutions which is europe product...

Also seems that some forumers do not understand that some process of
Europe like enlighting, humanism etc was developing by process of losing of
religion (christianity), but in interregnum it is not obligately happening..."

1. Okay, i guess cordoba is out of the picture. Its just that if it follows the muzalite path then it will be advanced but still authoritarian (as far as I know), and already will not be a legitimate islamic Caliphate, a revolution could be in order.

Also, the other topic for this thread is a possible revolter-nation of the Black Sea provinces of Kaffa and Kerch. Formed during the desintegration of the Golden horde, it would be supported by Genoa against Ukraine, GH and Byzantium, each of whom hope to take kaffa/kerch for themselves. Probably it would become an ally of Genoa through events, but not a vassal to avoid DAing (if vassal then event breaksvassal?). This little republic would attempt to create a merchant state on the outskirts of the golden Horde empire, but it truly has bigger dreams than that. This could be a player controlled state, if they were willing to play as someone else for a few years.

So what are its dreams?
1. expanding nearby to help solidify their independence.
2. trade and eventually owning a CoT.
3. Calling for a crusade against the GH, and snatching up all of the valuable provinces.
4. Eventual domination of the Entire Black Sea. (an alliance with Genoa against Byzantium will help)
5. Religious reform? Maybe converting the catholicism? Not sure what can happen religiously.
6. Sicily. This is the important part. If Genoa decides not to support and take the provinces for themwelves (what are these Kaffa/kerch guys called anyways), then sicily (if not allied with genoa) gets the opportunity to support these intrepid merchants. If so then then KK will go south instead of north. Leaving the Golden horde to disintegrate by themselves, they will help sicily defeat Genoa, and get Crete and cyprus for themselves. This path (if succesful) will end up with them fighting Byzantium over the eastern mediterranean Thrace, and the provinces bordering the Aegean will fall to them, signaling the collapse of the Byzantine Empire.

Well?

 

[yourworstnightm]

The only way we'd have a revolution in Cordoba is if the revolutionary side also have a Calipah on their side.