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Hi,

Wife and kids away for a week and have been playing lots. Really like the new land doctrines tech screen and their effect on the game, and the really nice integration with the tech teams in the various countries – seems the most efficient way through is via the historical route, but also gives players plenty of options. This is really nicely done!

Have a very minor, and equally pedantic comment. The German teams ‘Guderain’ and Manstein’ give this nation a major advantage because of their very high skill. I feel that the German army is qualitatively too superior compared to other nations by ’39 (mind you, the situation in vanilla is way worse). I can understand ‘Guderain’ since he was instrumental in the development of the panzer arm – but his ideas were helped by the fact that Hitler thought that tanks were cool – allowing him to overcome some of the conservatism and protectionism that permeated some of the general staff (Cawthorne). I think Manstein’s influence in doctrinal and army development is over-represented. Clearly Manstien was recognised as a talented staff officer, and was an important figure in his early years at the Generalstab. However, after his dismissal as Oberquartiermeister I from the Generalstab following the Blomberg/Fritsch scandal, his influence in doctrinal matters was greatly diminished – made worse by the fact that Halder (Manstein’s replacement) saw him as a rival, despised him and continually undermined him (Stein). Halder later had Manstien removed as chief-of-staff of Rundstedt’s Army Group A prior to the invasion of France, and refused to pass on Mainstien’s memoranda pertaining to the Sichelschnitt plan. It was only after Hitler suggested that there should be a thrust towards Sedan that Manstien’s plan was taken seriously by the high command. Even before his dismissal he found the going tough. For example, Manstein was a strong advocate of motorised artillery, but when he presented his ideas to Beck, Beck replied ‘My dear Manstien, this time you have hit wide of the mark’. Even when the concept was eventually adopted, it was significantly reduced in scope by Brauchitsch (Stein). It was probably not until 1941, and in his command of LVI motorised corps, that his genius for large scale mobile operations was recognised. Wonder, then, if in the game context Mainstien’s skill should be reduced prior to 1941, or perhaps he could be removed with the Blomberg/Fritsch event and reappear in ’41? Who were the other significant figures in doctrinal development in the ’36 to ’41 period? Maybe tech team Hitler!?

Am new to this forum, so I hope these comments a taken in the spirit they are intended, am not in any way trying to be argumentative, pretentious or critical of the mod – I love the CORE because of its attention to detail and obvious careful and extensive historical research. As I said, a very minor point, and one that may well have been considered by the CORE team. Just interested in what others think.

Oh, and because Piggy and Simon_Jester appeared to enjoy the previous bibliography (thanks), have included one here as well!

Cawthorne, N ‘Panzer! Tank warfare 139-45’ Capella, 2003
Stein, M. ‘Field Marshal von Manstein – the Janus head, a Portrait’, Helion, 2007 (and a really nice book)

Anyway family back tomorrow, better clean up and feed the chooks.

Cheers,

M
 
If you take Manstein out of the picture as a doctrine researcher, you need to replace him with something. Manstein is really good at researching a number of fairly important techs that the Germans historically had, unless I am sorely mistaken.
 
Simon_Jester said:
If you take Manstein out of the picture as a doctrine researcher, you need to replace him with something. Manstein is really good at researching a number of fairly important techs that the Germans historically had, unless I am sorely mistaken.


Yep, quite true. I just think his influence is currently over-empahsised because of the high skill level. As it is I think the Germans can progress too quickly through the techs. Mind you, it would make life harder for the AI as well which may not be desirable...

M
 
Well, in many ways the Germans were at the front of doctrinal research, and they did have a very strong institutional background for developing advanced tactics. Nor was their tactical skill limited to the blitzkrieg.

So it makes sense for them to be good at researching doctrines, and arguably at researching in general. The Germans' weaknesses had little to do with technology.
 
Again, I mostly agree with your comments. The doctrinal advantages that the German army had over the other belligerents at the beginning of ‘39 were considerable, but I think these advantages stemmed from the influences of people like von Seeckt, and ironically, by the forced implementation of the Treaty of Versailles prior to ’36 (already reflected by the tech advantages the Germans start with in CORE). The Einheit system developed over the early inter-war period gave German units sufficient heavy weapons and a supply structure that allowed low echelon units to act independently. This was complemented by the aggressive spirit and doctrines of Moltke and Schlieffen that permeated the officer corps. Hence, throughout WWII we see instances of regiment, battalion and company level organisations performing heroic feats. Much of the exploitation into Russia in ’41 was performed at regiment and battalion level. When the tide turned in Russia, the ability of small units to operate independently allowed thinly spread German forces to defend large fronts.

So there is no doubt that the Germans had significant advantages - I just wonder at the magnitude of the improvements we see in the game. Whilst I accept that the Germans became more adept at mobile operations from the start, I’m not sure that their improvement was as rapid as is represented by the rate at which they can currently acquire new techs. I would be happy to hear a counter-argument. I think that it is also possible to argue that the allied forces caught up (in my game experience they don’t catch up because the German teams are too good). Operations Uranus and Bagration (I’ll selectively leave out Mars!) are good examples of the Soviet grasp of flexible mobile warfare; perhaps by wars-end they were even better than the Germans. In addition, Hitler’s gradual and increasing intervention at operational level removed much of the doctrinal advantage the German’s had. Maybe I just want to re-live those classic tense board wargames of years past where the Soviets are barking at your doorstep and your just trying to hang on until ’45...

Cheers,

M
 
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