Is it just me, or does the CK3 map look... pastel and kiddish?

[yangzilata]

While the first part of your point 1) above can at least be argued with a minimum of credibility giving it a very large margin of error, this sentence is simply not true with mods developed for the Clausewitz engine and downloaded from Steam or Paradox Plazza. You can write the stuff that highlights your paranoid fears in any colour, understrike or bold that does not makes it reasonable in any way.

Besides directly correcting you in the sentence above, I find it funny all your arguments raised in points 2 and 3. I usually reserve my efforts to people who show at least some dim possibility of understanding and learning. On you it seems this is just a dead errand...

Where exactly did you get the idea that I was trying to learn something from you? Do you see yourself as some kind of authority figure here? That’s quite a self-image. I simply shared my opinion and perspective — I never asked for your path, your teaching, or your approval.

If your way is the right one, what does that make everyone else’s? It’s quite bold to try and 'educate' a complete stranger who never requested anything from you in the first place.

at least some dim possibility of understanding and learning

Frankly, I found your tone unnecessarily condescending, which is why I responded as I did. You don’t get to belittle others just because they don’t think like you, or because they’re not interested in following your approach. The part where you stated your view was informative — the rest? Not so much.

 

[yangzilata]

Funny thing, paradox doesn't handle bugs well, I would say they are terrible at it.

I've made mods for myself for correcting bugs i've found out myself (posted some of them on steamworkshop), I have more than 30 bugs fixing I've made myself, and there is much more.
So you can have modded version of the game which is much less buged that the vanilla one.




Yes, but in this case (mods for CK3), you are not using software made by stranger, you are using CK3 made by paradox and mods for CK3 can't hide virus or spyware since you can't writte them with the CK3 script language

And if we can take the scenario that a hacker put un dll in a mod and upload it on the steamworkshop hoping you gonna open the directory and execute the dll for whatever reason. It won't happen becaude steamworshop won't upload the dll, steamworkshop doesn't allow upload dll/exe/bat unless for specific games that developer asked for (like bannerdlord for exemple which uses dll)


Actually there is much more risk that PDX get hacked and a version of the game with a virus get uploaded on steam, it's the only scenario possible to get a virus by playing CK3

honestly, you’ve almost convinced me to give mods another shot. The way you broke things down was helpful and well-explained.

That said, I have to admit that @Torredebelem unnecessarily aggressive(belittling) tone left a really bad taste and made me feel even more distant from the modding community. It's hard to be open to something when it's presented with that kind of condescension. But your reply was the opposite — clear, respectful, and helpful. Thanks.

 

[Torredebelem]

Do you see yourself as some kind of authority figure here?

Based on your misconceptions about an angle of the game that in your own words:

"I don’t know much about the technical details of mods, like what .dll files are or how they work, and since I’m not a developer, taking risks with things I don’t fully understand feels unsafe to me."

and my experience in playing Paradox games for more than 25 years, plus about the same time modding Paradox games, plus my professional background of about 30 years - which also includes a stint at developing a game - yes, I am attempting to assuage your atavic concerns that can morph into paranoia. And all this, free of charge!

Now, c'mon, give my mod a try!

 

[47pik]

honestly, you’ve almost convinced me to give mods another shot. The way you broke things down was helpful and well-explained.

That said, I have to admit that @Torredebelem unnecessarily aggressive(belittling) tone left a really bad taste and made me feel even more distant from the modding community. It's hard to be open to something when it's presented with that kind of condescension. But your reply was the opposite — clear, respectful, and helpful. Thanks.

Respectfully, when you speak so authoritatively from a place of ignorance, you are inviting people to point and laugh.

It's fine to be ignorant - there are lots of things we all don't know, but you have to know when you are ignorant and to what extent you are. Speaking definitively about things which you are clearly not informed on, and getting into arguments about it with people who do, doubling down and rejecting new information is a bad look.

 

[yangzilata]

Respectfully, when you speak so authoritatively from a place of ignorance, you are inviting people to point and laugh.

You say this respectfully, but your message reads like a lecture delivered from a very high horse

To be clear: I have explained my personal reasons for not wanting to use mods. This seems difficult for you to grasp, since you still haven’t acknowledged it. If I were a modder myself, I would, of course, want people to try my work. But nobody is obligated to sample your product. People have the right to choose.

It's fine to be ignorant - there are lots of things we all don't know, but you have to know when you are ignorant and to what extent you are. Speaking definitively about things which you are clearly not informed on, and getting into arguments about it with people who do, doubling down and rejecting new information is a bad look.

Furthermore, within the limits of our knowledge and experience, we all make choices about things we are not experts in. You might call this ignorance or arrogance from your perspective — fine, so be it.

Also, I never claimed to be an expert. In fact, I literally admitted the limits of my technical knowledge. If that’s what you call ‘speaking authoritatively,’ we may be using very different dictionaries.

What I did do was express how someone like me — with limited background — might feel when met with condescending responses. That perspective still stands. It’s not ignorance to talk about how one feels.

You’re free to critique ideas, but tone policing while dismissing others as laughable doesn’t exactly build bridges. If the modding community wants to be more inclusive, maybe start by not ridiculing the people who are trying to engage.

 

[Torredebelem]

You say this respectfully, but your message reads like a lecture delivered from a very high horse

To be clear: I have explained my personal reasons for not wanting to use mods. This seems difficult for you to grasp, since you still haven’t acknowledged it. If I were a modder myself, I would, of course, want people to try my work. But nobody is obligated to sample your product. People have the right to choose.



Furthermore, within the limits of our knowledge and experience, we all make choices about things we are not experts in. You might call this ignorance or arrogance from your perspective — fine, so be it.

Also, I never claimed to be an expert. In fact, I literally admitted the limits of my technical knowledge. If that’s what you call ‘speaking authoritatively,’ we may be using very different dictionaries.

What I did do was express how someone like me — with limited background — might feel when met with condescending responses. That perspective still stands. It’s not ignorance to talk about how one feels.

You’re free to critique ideas, but tone policing while dismissing others as laughable doesn’t exactly build bridges. If the modding community wants to be more inclusive, maybe start by not ridiculing the people who are trying to engage.

I will be downright serious and understanding for a last time.

You are totally wrong in assuming viruses or malware can be passed on using mods for any Paradox title. This is what everyone more knowledgeable than you has pointed out in this thread. At the same time you continue to bow to your ridiculous ideas relating (and colouring!) the supposed risk of installing mods due to a laughable possibility of getting viruses or malware.

Let me make a metaphor to highlight your issue: Your stance in this issue is akin to avoid taking the driver's license due to the supposed risk of cars exploding spontaneously into balls of flame and keeping your unreasonable opinion when professional drivers try to inform you there are no such risks involved in driving cars. You see? It's nonsense and you decide to continue to believe in such nonsense. That is why you are getting (mildly) laughed at.

And no, I don't really care if you try my mod ot not...

 

[ourg]

You are totally wrong in assuming viruses or malware can be passed on using mods for any Paradox title.

You should precise for "paradox GSG"

Because in paradox games there is some that can have virus through mod, like city skyline 2 as a good exemple

 

[yangzilata]

I will be downright serious and understanding for a last time.

You are totally wrong in assuming viruses or malware can be passed on using mods for any Paradox title. This is what everyone more knowledgeable than you has pointed out in this thread. At the same time you continue to bow to your ridiculous ideas relating (and colouring!) the supposed risk of installing mods due to a laughable possibility of getting viruses or malware.

Let me make a metaphor to highlight your issue: Your stance in this issue is akin to avoid taking the driver's license due to the supposed risk of cars exploding spontaneously into balls of flame and keeping your unreasonable opinion when professional drivers try to inform you there are no such risks involved in driving cars. You see? It's nonsense and you decide to continue to believe in such nonsense. That is why you are getting (mildly) laughed at.

And no, I don't really care if you try my mod ot not...

Firstly and hopefully, the bolding and colorful highlights make this long and probably tedious wall of text at least a little less painful to read.

Now, let me explain a bit more about why mods feel unfair to me — beyond security concerns.

I simply don’t want to engage with technical stuff. I don’t want to know what .dll or .exe files do. That world is not for me. I’m not interested in learning it, and honestly, the black-and-white console world sounds stressful and dull. Life in the city already throws enough stimuli at us — I don’t want to add another layer of digital stress. So your effort to explain it, while noted and even appreciated, isn’t something I ever asked for. Please understand that.

And I do see you tried. Your metaphor — explaining things like you would to a child — was actually well-crafted and thoughtful. It made me feel seen, not mocked. So, thank you. Still, your comparison doesn’t really cover the way I obsess over bugs and lag, which also keep me away from mods. That’s another reason I stay cautious.

That said, being mocked — even mildly — always feels bad. Should I start mocking people when I explain something they don’t know? Should a teacher make fun of their students for not understanding the topic? I don't think so.

---

Now, a couple more reasons:

I don’t think mods ruin games — but I do think some modders do. I’ve seen mods that give you every achievement instantly, or unlock everything with no effort. That just feels wrong. Some people earn those achievements through hours of play — others just click once and get the same badge. That’s not just imbalance; it’s fake. I don’t care enough to report it, and I doubt Steam would do anything anyway, but it still bothers me.

Another point: when modders improve the game with their work, they’re often doing the job PDX devs should be doing — for free. And what do they get in return? Nothing, most of the time. Your efforts are ignored, overwritten, or broken with every patch. Man!

Meanwhile, PDX make bank releasing updates that sometimes break what you fixed. And I know some devs have even said,​

“this part is very moddable, we can’t wait to see what the community does with it.”​

That’s not excitement — that’s free labor dressed up as praise. That’s not encouragement. That’s outsourcing. That’s free labor.​

So no, I’m not against you — I’m against this dynamic where you end up working for free, only to be forgotten, broken, and uncredited. If I’m misreading the situation, feel free to tell me. But from where I stand, it doesn’t look fair.

Honestly, if the system were more just — if modders were paid per subscriber or if Paradox stopped partly relying on you to do their job — maybe I’d support mods more actively. But right now?

You’re treated like child miners in a digital gold rush, and I can’t be okay with that.

 

[Torredebelem]

Firstly and hopefully, the bolding and colorful highlights make this long and probably tedious wall of text at least a little less painful to read.

Now, let me explain a bit more about why mods feel unfair to me — beyond security concerns.

I simply don’t want to engage with technical stuff. I don’t want to know what .dll or .exe files do. That world is not for me. I’m not interested in learning it, and honestly, the black-and-white console world sounds stressful and dull. Life in the city already throws enough stimuli at us — I don’t want to add another layer of digital stress. So your effort to explain it, while noted and even appreciated, isn’t something I ever asked for. Please understand that.

And I do see you tried. Your metaphor — explaining things like you would to a child — was actually well-crafted and thoughtful. It made me feel seen, not mocked. So, thank you. Still, your comparison doesn’t really cover the way I obsess over bugs and lag, which also keep me away from mods. That’s another reason I stay cautious.

That said, being mocked — even mildly — always feels bad. Should I start mocking people when I explain something they don’t know? Should a teacher make fun of their students for not understanding the topic? I don't think so.

---

Now, a couple more reasons:

I don’t think mods ruin games — but I do think some modders do. I’ve seen mods that give you every achievement instantly, or unlock everything with no effort. That just feels wrong. Some people earn those achievements through hours of play — others just click once and get the same badge. That’s not just imbalance; it’s fake. I don’t care enough to report it, and I doubt Steam would do anything anyway, but it still bothers me.

Another point: when modders improve the game with their work, they’re often doing the job PDX devs should be doing — for free. And what do they get in return? Nothing, most of the time. Your efforts are ignored, overwritten, or broken with every patch. Man!

Meanwhile, PDX make bank releasing updates that sometimes break what you fixed. And I know some devs have even said,

That’s not excitement — that’s free labor dressed up as praise. That’s not encouragement. That’s outsourcing. That’s free labor.​

So no, I’m not against you — I’m against this dynamic where you end up working for free, only to be forgotten, broken, and uncredited. If I’m misreading the situation, feel free to tell me. But from where I stand, it doesn’t look fair.

Honestly, if the system were more just — if modders were paid per subscriber or if Paradox stopped partly relying on you to do their job — maybe I’d support mods more actively. But right now?

First things first, I am glad you are moving away from your position on viruses or malware.

The reasons you mention in this post are all reasonable, even if I don't understand some parts about them. What's up about "dll" or "exe files" and what do its undertstanding has to do with loading some Paradox mods? What about "the black and white console world"? What does it has to do with mods at all?

Now, in defense of modding and while I understand where you are coming from, for me the hours I spend identifying parts of the game that need improvement, how to improve them and then coding the improvements, are a blessing at least as engaging as experiencing the game in first place. Neither It feels like work, nor it is dull. Far from it. In fact it is the perfect hobby!

It is a way for us to express ourselves artistically through a relatively new medium, but not dissimilar to writing a story, a poem or an article. Or drawing a landscape, a portrait or a particular striking scene.
I don't feel oppressed or exploited by Paradox, I feel grateful the company has provided means for me to express my knowledge about gameplay, game balancing and to indulge my creativity. And to top it off, to be able to share it with other people, my players, for them to experience for free my vision of the original product.

 

[yangzilata]

What's up about "dll" or "exe files" and what do its undertstanding has to do with loading some Paradox mods?

as answer:

What's up about "dll" or "exe files"

Malware from modding are a thing from games that allow dll and exe

of dll.

I wasn’t making a technical argument there. I actually don’t really know what they do; I only vaguely know that .exe is what runs a program. I referenced them because they were mentioned earlier in the thread, and they just symbolize the kind of things I want to avoid thinking about.

"the black and white console world

When I said ‘black-and-white console world,’ I was referring more to the abstract aesthetic and vibe of coding — not literally every coder's screen being black-and-white. It just feels like a stressful, highly technical environment that’s alien to me, and not something I want to dive into.

In short, that whole area — permissions, dependencies, executable files — it’s not something I enjoy navigating.

Now, in defense of modding and while I understand where you are coming from, for me the hours I spend identifying parts of the game that need improvement, how to improve them and then coding the improvements, are a blessing at least as engaging as experiencing the game in first place. Neither It feels like work, nor it is dull. Far from it. In fact it is the perfect hobby!

It is a way for us to express ourselves artistically through a relatively new medium, but not dissimilar to writing a story, a poem or an article. Or drawing a landscape, a portrait or a particular striking scene.
I don't feel oppressed or exploited by Paradox, I feel grateful the company has provided means for me to express my knowledge about gameplay, game balancing and to indulge my creativity. And to top it off, to be able to share it with other people, my players, for them to experience for free my vision of the original product.

Dude, that’s a fair and heartfelt perspective, and I honestly respect your passion — and the way you describe it, it is art. But even then — even when it’s a passion project — I think companies like Paradox benefit too much from your work without offering anything concrete in return. It’s about basic fairness. You create added value. You fix what’s broken. You polish what’s dull. no?

That contribution shouldn’t just be rewarded with “thanks” and a pat on the back. Man, just because someone gives something freely doesn’t mean it should be free to exploit. Companiee should at least have a system to recognize major modders Even symbolic compensation or shared revenue for big mods would make a world of difference. At least something that says, “Hey, we’re not just taking your work — we value it.

 

[prismaticmarcus]

I think the discussion about modding has run its course. Let's get back to the map.