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Is the EU2MP Community Dying? How shall we mourn her passing?

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TheArchduke said:
I still remember reading the MGC3 you could host massive armies with a stalinist super-state, where was the balance then? Or massive conversions of heathens to Catholics by Spain to anger other players.
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Well, maybe there's a reason why such behaviour stopped being accepted? ;)

Particularly that Spanish rampage throughout the entire New World was extremely nasty and gamey. Come to think of it, I don't think you could have mentioned a worse exploit. :p

I still remember when Hive was just as green as many behind the ears and asked me to sub a nation for him once, nearly wetting himself when asking me.
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Aye, it was my very first long-term campaign - the first Europe Unleashed. It was you who taught me that trade actually *did* matter. :D
 
Hive said:
Well, maybe there's a reason why such behaviour stopped being accepted? ;)

Particularly that Spanish rampage throughout the entire New World was extremely nasty and gamey. Come to think of it, I don't think you could have mentioned a worse exploit. :p
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Christ, in what way is that an exploit?
 
Mulliman said:
Seriously, i always thought you would backstab me :D.
And by the way, sorry for the totally pointless invasion of North America.
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Heh, I think we worked things out afterwards. Come to think of it, it was the only war which resulted in a better relationship afterwards then before.

I lost 6 provinces and one CoT in India due that war, only winning it back with swedish help.
 
Hive said:
Force-converting the entire New World with the sole purpose to hurt England and France? You don't think that's a gamey exploit?
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Nar, perfectly inside bounds :).
 
I think the activity in this thread alone is the best answer to this question. ;)
MP activity still seems surprisingly strong for a game this old, certainly a lot more than in the first years of its existence.
With EU3 in sight the end of EUIIMP should eventually come, but that is natural, as anything else would mean that EU3 is a dissapointment as a MP game. Which i will hope it will not, to the contrary hopefully it will be developed with MP as a major selling point, and not only as an afterthought.
After all, many essential MP features of EUII came very late in its gamelife, due to Johans efforts in his spare time, not to mention the very recent addition of new maps. :)
 
BiB said:
Pfft, just annex those Amerindians as Spain.
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Well that would be fair enough. But force converting them only to annoy others is compareable to slaughtering natives in areas you don't want to colonise yourself, imo.
 
Mulli,

I think we can now understand why the EU community is so much better off without certain types of players. ;)

Every time I see them write the word "gamey" I know that I soon will see some kind of action taken in EU presented as if it were one of the great sins of the world. While the truth is that these people really are not gamers, they are more like "historical simulators" who love it when everything happens as it did in RL and deviations from that is default considered to be bad. They should really form a community of their own. I have very little in common with them. I play to win as does 99% of all boys in RL when they play a game.

To discuss things like this without presenting the basic principles you apply when forming your arguments means the discussion can become very confused. You may both argue correctly on correct facts and thus reach true conclusions. I.e. both may be right although you do not discuss the same thing. So, therefore I present:


MY BASIC PRINCIPLES

- I play games to win (or at least do as good as I can)

- To achieve this I consider every action not explicitly or implicitly forbidden as allowed, as it is in all regulated games the world knows of (AFAIK)

- This gives me great fun and excitement (just wanted to say that in case someone wondered :D )

- I consider all MP games I play in as "one game", thus I recognise the fact that every action I do in a game may have repercussions not only in the current game but in any other game I play in [Example: I will show a certain restraint in beating up people that are weaker than myself, recognising the fact that in the next game it may be myself that is the weaker one and thus being kind now may give me a benefit in the next game. ]

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The consequence of this stance is that the word "gamey" (whatever it may mean) for me is irrelevant. Or even better: it is a positive word because it means you play the game of EU as... what...? yes... as a game. You play a game as a game. yeah, sounds locgical.

The big problem with this view is that the concept of winning in EU is not clearly defined. Thus, even if someone else shares my view we may still play the game with different aims which is by default bad. Hopefully EU3 will give us better methods of measuring the performance of the players than the current VP system, making it easy for us to define what a win is.

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Hive,

This was my basic approach to EU gaming. Now please

1. look into yourself and present your basic view

2. based upon that then explain how could it be that you considered this interesting conversion tactics by someone as "gamey"?

3. and tell us what it is you really mean when you use the concept "gamey"
 
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Hive said:
Well, maybe there's a reason why such behaviour stopped being accepted? ;)

Particularly that Spanish rampage throughout the entire New World was extremely nasty and gamey. Come to think of it, I don't think you could have mentioned a worse exploit. :p
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No idea if it was gamey, but I found it very interesting and one of the moments I thought 'I could never had pull this off, well done'. Specifically when -it was Ulver, right- started in the thread thinking in how not do overdo spanish power :D

Anyway, that was a fun game to read as a lurker in this forum.
 
Duke of Wellington said:
Are many new players joining? I certainly hope it isn't dying I hope to join soon. EU2 seems like the kind of game where it won't really die anyway there'll always be a few players left.
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Duke of W.,

You should read some posts here and there and you will then soon realise who to rely upon and who not.

The forum is filled with people making determined statements hither or thither (indeed just like this statement :wacko: ;) ) without showing (and often without having) any evidence supporting them. They are the ones you should be wary of. :cool:
 
Daniel, I'm sick and tired of your arrogant attitude. You always seem to believe that you and you alone is right in every single argument, and refuse to even try to understand the other side.

Just because YOU play to win at all costs, like it was RiSK, doesn't mean that most others do as well. And even if they do, I doubt that many people have the same view on "winning" as you do.

Now I never claim to be speaking for the majority of the EU2 players, I only speak for myself. I speak MY view on things, I tell about how I think the game should be played. I don't rule out your way of playing, I merely state that I don't personally like it.

And comparing playing EU2 online to playing games IRL is a weird comparison, imo. But let that be.

And no, I don't want a straight-jackeded simulation of history - but I do prefer a somewhat realistic simulation of politics. And proposing that people like me should just buzz off from "your" domain and form our own community really irks me. Who the hell made this subforum your own personal kingdom? Because I sure missed the coronation...
 
Now that you mentioned it, I think I'm gonna play Risk a bit :)

Fact: The community is getting small

don't discusss a fact, discuss interpretations of that fact, and after that, and ONLY after that, discuss solutions. The rest is whinning.

now if you don't mind, I'm gonna get that damned Kamchatka in Risk :D
 
Hive,

It was you who started the campaign of alienation by writing

"Particularly that Spanish rampage throughout the entire New World was extremely nasty and gamey. Come to think of it, I don't think you could have mentioned a worse exploit. "

This is a very strong accusation of someone behaving badly andthus (to some extent) destroying the fun in the game for the rest. There is no "IMO" added, you just precide as judge, similar to what you accuse me of :rofl:

This post by you preceded mine that said:

"I think we can now understand why the EU community is so much better off without certain types of players."

Thus my post was a reaction to yours. Do you get it?

I have never claimed that I hava a monopoly on the truth.
But anyone presenting views without giving evidence must as in all intellectually honest circles be prepared to defend himself when challenged. That is nothing to get upset about Hive. You must learn to live with it.

I further believe it is significant that you do not realise that it was you that started it all. Because it become more and more apparent that if anyone it is you that lack the will or ability to judge things from other people's perspective. I, on the contrary, just asked you about what your perspective was. Do you remember that or did you forget it? It is in my previous post. Three little questions. But did you answer them... no-no. Well you made some kind of answer to the first of the three when you said " I do prefer a somewhat realistic simulation of politics". A very precise and easy to understand definition for a game :D

I have honestly presented the principles on which I base my conclusions. You just failed to do the same. You give the appearence of merely expressing your views without any concern for how you logically have arrived at them. I doubt anyone is impressed.

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Concerning "buzz off". I have not asked you to buzz off. I expressed a view of being pleased that people like you, with vague and idiosyncratic ideas about what should be allowed and not allowed when playing, were not present. But there is no problem with having both types in the EU community, as long as we do not intermingle and as long as we know each other views. I honestly put my forward, for anyone to critisise or agree with so that no mistake can be made. What is your model? Can you present an easy to understand description of what you expect of players? Or will you always end up in quarrels and disagreements?
 
Daniel A, given you are less than one inch away from being permanently banned from these forums for smug, arrogant behaviour, and you know so, I wonder why you keep pushing it.

Do you *want* to be banned?
 
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